Nottingham 'Bus War'

[Deerfold]

Not surprising to see the incumbent doing better on day one, especially with such lackluster build up.

Indeed, nor suprised by how much slower TB WiFi is, given the larger number of people potentially sharing it.

 

[alesi85]

Hi, alesi here, found this thread via a google search. I'm I right in thinking this new citylink is supposed to stop at the QMC?

Thought I'd give them a go on the way back from work (from the QMC to Derby), driver drove straight past when I had my arm out! I would have doubled the passengers he had in rush hour too, only one person on it! Not impressed.

 

[MCR247]

Do yourbus want this service to fail or something?
Without even mentioning the lack of publicity before it started, how are most normal people going to find the timetable if they don't know the yourbus website off by heart? (Which, obviously, most don't, especially since it isn't yourbus.com or co.uk) Google. So, lets google 'yourbus citylink.' We have to go to the fourth result down on the SECOND page to find it. (and even then it is just a link to the homepage). Surely they're going to do some sort of SEO to get it at least on the first page? Especially since the results on the first page, aren't results of other 'yourbus citylink' services, they are just blogs etc about theirs!

Type in 'trent barton red arrow,' first result.

 

[ARedFlyer]

Yes considering Premiere lost £30k or so (£1000 a week) running the Red Flyer which had a PVR of just two buses YourBus are going to need to start filling those things ASAP or it will prove very costly for them. I'm not sure going all in was the best idea...maybe a peak only time table would have been better to start of with. The prices are right though, and I agree very few use it via a connect. Mostly city to city shoppers and city to city workers.

They are a lot tidier than Premiere with their presentation however and you can't help but love those sexy Mercedes Citaro's.

 

[starrymarkb]

Do yourbus want this service to fail or something?
Without even mentioning the lack of publicity before it started, how are most normal people going to find the timetable if they don't know the yourbus website off by heart? (Which, obviously, most don't, especially since it isn't yourbus.com or co.uk) Google. So, lets google 'yourbus citylink.' We have to go to the fourth result down on the SECOND page to find it. (and even then it is just a link to the homepage). Surely they're going to do some sort of SEO to get it at least on the first page? Especially since the results on the first page, aren't results of other 'yourbus citylink' services, they are just blogs etc about theirs!

Type in 'trent barton red arrow,' first result.

I'm assuming it will creep up the results in time. In the mean time it might be worth them buying some sponsored results from Google (£100 should get them a fair bit of traffic)

 

[MCR247]

They are a lot tidier than Premiere with their presentation however and you can't help but love those sexy Mercedes Citaro's.

I'm not sure if I like citaros :? I think they are great looking buses from the outside and everything, but the inside just completely lets them down with the awful seating layouts, unless they have improved this in newer ones? Both the Calverton Connection and the Y36 seating layouts are terrible imo, bearing in mind they aren't even the same!

 

[tbone]

I'm not sure if I like citaros :? I think they are great looking buses from the outside and everything, but the inside just completely lets them down with the awful seating layouts, unless they have improved this in newer ones? Both the Calverton Connection and the Y36 seating layouts are terrible imo, bearing in mind they aren't even the same!

From the pictures I've seen, the Citaros look very 'clinical' and the seating is enough to give anyone a migrane! The focus transport article also suggests that the seating was uncomfortable which is unfortunate.

Trent Barton seem committed to putting out coaches wherever possible and if not they've now got 4 Wrightbus/Eclipses with high backed leather seats, one with wifi, to deputise, if one of these isn't available and a Scania or the solitary excel has to be used then only £2 will be charged.

 

[Mugby]

I went to have a look in Derby this afternoon. Admittedly a quietish time of day but the loadings on Citylink were not good. The 2.15, no passengers, 2.25, no passengers, 2.35, 2 passengers, 2.45, 5 passengers. The corresponding Red Arrow departures were about one third to half full.

Citylink have a small desk at their stand with a man shouting NOTTINGHAM, ANYONE FOR NOTTINGHAM?
But therein lies a problem; incoming services unload at bay 4, then reverse off and park up. The next departure is formed by the previous one which had parked up - and so on.
The problem with this is the bus doesn't come on stand until about a minute before departure, otherwise the stand would be blocked for the incoming service.
Now, TB seem to operate the Red Arrow on the principle of always having a bus on the stand and this means intending passengers have the choice of a Red Arrow which is ready and waiting or a Citylink which has yet to appear. Well, what would you do!

Perhaps Citylink should change the driver, not the bus, as TB do, but the present arrangement is presumably their insurance against an incoming bus being late. Unfortunately, it seems to be working against them at present.

Mention must also be made of the appalling and horrendous congestion at Derby bus station. Incoming buses having to wait in the same queue of buses, cars and taxis at the exit, the tight U turn to get onto the approach, buses reversing into the path of others, buses unable to reverse off stand because they are blocked by buses which can't get in. How on earth this state of affairs is allowed to continue defies understanding. I think TB have made their feelings known and keep which services they can out of the place altogether, but the city council, as you may expect, simply refuse to listen.

 

[Ginga]

MR SWIFT the ex Premiere brand manager is now working for TRAMLINK as Marketing Manager.

 

[mainframe444]

Based on my back of fag packet figures, very estimated.....

At least 73 round trips a day, 34 miles each time is 2400 miles.....

Say 7MPG on the Mercedes, at £5 a gallon (inc BOSOG or whatever) gives £1700 for fuel per day.....

Then labour, at least 12 hours a day, 8 buses, two drivers per bus (for breaks) at £8.24 per hour is £1500 per day for labour.....

So I reckon £3200 per day costs at least.....

They seem to carry a lot of fresh air, so how long will this last???

My estimate, which I stress is just that, does not include the maintenance cost of the buses, or indeed the depreciation (if owned) or rental HP costs (if not)

What we don't know of course is the extent of financial support from Rotala, who are a fairly large company.

Given the money invested here ( new buses, virtually rebuilt garage and new office block ) someone is going to want to see a fair whack of return before long.....

B

 

[WillPS]

Yourbus don't often stick it out for very long though. The Y100 which had modest loadings was pretty quickly dropped, and the Y81/82 was breaking even by the end from what I understand, but Yourbus felt their resources were better placed elsewhere.

Give it a couple of weeks though. Yourbus should have started with a couple of free days (with vouchers for half price weeklys) or something, the way they're doing things people will have been taken by surprise, and perhaps unwilling to jump straight away.

 

[bb21]

Hi, alesi here, found this thread via a google search. I'm I right in thinking this new citylink is supposed to stop at the QMC?

Thought I'd give them a go on the way back from work (from the QMC to Derby), driver drove straight past when I had my arm out! I would have doubled the passengers he had in rush hour too, only one person on it! Not impressed.

Welcome.

They should do, stop QM04.

The driver might have missed you. It is a shame really as such actions leave passengers with a bad impression of the company and is obviously not helpful when they are trying to get people onboard.

 

[ALIEN14247]

Whilst it's not all the routes operated out of Tuxford, Yourbus have applied to cancel nine services at short notice in their North Eastern area.

 

[WillPS]

I don't see why they should be allowed to cancel at short notice?

 

[Jordeh]

Couldn't YourBus introduce an additional stop at Pride Park? I often see the Red arrow, Spondon Flyer and Ilkeston Flyer diverted in that direction. Given how little time it would add on to the journey (Few minutes at most surely?) could be worth a try.

There's a large amount of people working in the Pride Park area of Derby and of course there's a bit to be made on matchdays at Derby County too surely? Could also act as a bit of a shuttle bus between Derby & Pride Park given its frequency and lack of bus services otherwise.

 

[MCR247]

Yourbus, what happened?! The 36 (before it was Y36) started on a Monday, and to try and get as many passengers as possible, they ran the service as a free service on the Friday before! But with citylink, there was nothing to show it would exist until the Monday!

 

[WillPS]

I'm not convinced there's much of a market for Derby County fans traveling from Nottingham!

 

[ARedFlyer]

It's like they gave up before it started. Maybe they got disheartened by Trent's aggressive price offers. I think there will be a VOSA cancellation before too long. As least customers have won out, and Trent have realized they can't rip people off. Mind you £90 a month is still steep, but better than previous options if you are a regular user of the Red Arrow.

 

[Trainspotter23]

Its not Premier that are battling Trent Barton now, its Yourbus. In Derby bus station Trent Barton have roped off the bay for red arrow ad put seat covers on the benches, while yourbus have a man at the neighboring bay shouting "bus to Nottingham, best one around. leaving now for Nottingham" and telling people deliberately the wrong bays for other services.

 

[MCR247]

Its not Premier that are battling Trent Barton now

Really?


But I do find it quite funny that Yourbus assume/know that most of the market is Nottingham - Derby -Nottingham and not Derby - Nottingham - Derby (which is surprising if true, i mean who wants to go to Derby?! ) and sobthey have put posters up at the exit of Derby Bus station saying "fast buses back to Nottingham every 10 minutes" etc suggesting that people are going to take one step out of the bus station, look around, and want to make a quick escape back to Nottingham

 

[Mugby]

But I do find it quite funny that Yourbus assume/know that most of the market is Nottingham - Derby -Nottingham and not Derby - Nottingham - Derby (which is surprising if true, i mean who wants to go to Derby?! ) and sobthey have put posters up at the exit of Derby Bus station saying "fast buses back to Nottingham every 10 minutes" etc suggesting that people are going to take one step out of the bus station, look around, and want to make a quick escape back to Nottingham

I'm in complete agreement with you on that.

I live here and I know what a vile, horrible and depressing place it is!
If anyone comes over expecting some decent shopping, or anything decent, they must be sorely disappointed.

Even in 1745, when Bonnie Prince Charlie led his troops south to conquer the English throne, he got as far as Derby, took a look around and said;
'If this is England, you can keep it!'

 

[WillPS]

Derby will eventually become an outskirt of Nottingham.

 

[martinsh]

I'm in complete agreement with you on that.

I live here and I know what a vile, horrible and depressing place it is!
If anyone comes over expecting some decent shopping, or anything decent, they must be sorely disappointed.

Even in 1745, when Bonnie Prince Charlie led his troops south to conquer the English throne, he got as far as Derby, took a look around and said;
'If this is England, you can keep it!'

Derby is a Mecca for real ale enthusiasts !

 

[Lewisham2221]

I can think of several more depressing places than Derby!

 

[alesi85]

Thanks bb21, very helpful.

Looking through the pages, it seems like Yourbus are trying more routes in Nottingham because the Y36 is so busy (they are when I'm at the QMC anyway).

The Y36 though is mostly full of students, a lot of whom have just arrived into Nottingham and don't really know 'the buses' and will get on anything if it gets them to town.

Outside the student areas, local people will just stick with Nottingham City Transport because they know it (and have citycards/passes). From my experience at QMC, a lot of people will wait for a Nottingham City bus into town even if 2 or 3 Trent buses arrive, and Trent have been going for years and are pretty well known.

I guess with mango, Trent are trying to tie people down to their buses like Nottingham City do with their citycard. Yourbus have an impossible task.

 

[Deerfold]

Thanks bb21, very helpful.

Looking through the pages, it seems like Yourbus are trying more routes in Nottingham because the Y36 is so busy (they are when I'm at the QMC anyway).

The Y36 though is mostly full of students, a lot of whom have just arrived into Nottingham and don't really know 'the buses' and will get on anything if it gets them to town.

Outside the student areas, local people will just stick with Nottingham City Transport because they know it (and have citycards/passes). From my experience at QMC, a lot of people will wait for a Nottingham City bus into town even if 2 or 3 Trent buses arrive, and Trent have been going for years and are pretty well known.

I suspect it's largely down to what pass they've got (or even if they're buying a return that there's more buses coming back). Trent don't really try hard where they shadow NCT routes - even the indigo with 9bph is swamped by the frequency of NCT buses between QMC and the city.

I guess with mango, Trent are trying to tie people down to their buses like Nottingham City do with their citycard. Yourbus have an impossible task.

I wonder if the Kangeroo is benefiting at all? I know I'd consider it if I still lived in some of my old haunts with the benefit of being able to get the 36, Y36 or Indigo from Beeston to Nottingham (along with various assorted lower frequency routes - but that's about 24/hour with just those 3 routes). I used to swap between Barton and NCT passes - NCT had higher frequencies but Barton buses stopped about 400 yards closer and ran later.

 

[Snibsey1]

Outside the student areas, local people will just stick with Nottingham City Transport because they know it (and have citycards/passes). From my experience at QMC, a lot of people will wait for a Nottingham City bus into town even if 2 or 3 Trent buses arrive, and Trent have been going for years and are pretty well known.

It's a hangover from the days of "protection" when you couldn't get on or off a Trent or Barton bus (depending whether you were going to or from the city centre) until had it passed the Corporation protection boundary.

 

[Trainspotter23]

Really?


But I do find it quite funny that Yourbus assume/know that most of the market is Nottingham - Derby -Nottingham and not Derby - Nottingham - Derby (which is surprising if true, i mean who wants to go to Derby?! ) and sobthey have put posters up at the exit of Derby Bus station saying "fast buses back to Nottingham every 10 minutes" etc suggesting that people are going to take one step out of the bus station, look around, and want to make a quick escape back to Nottingham

I agree with you on that aswell

 

[pjnathanail]

Apparently the yourbus citylink will now call at the nursery man and bramcote leisure centre from this sunday-can anyone confirm/deny this?

http://bramcotetoday.org.uk/2013/02/25/bramcote-residents-to-get-fast-link-to-derby/#more-10243

 

[MCR247]

Wouldn't surprise me, they're going to need to do everything they can to get some decent loadings, especially since they are running almost empty buses every 10 minutes atm.

And can yourbus really advertise that it will take 30 minutes when it really doesn't? My Red Arrow on Saturday arrived at Derby bus station before the Yourbus before it had!