Nottingham 'Bus War'

[Urobach]

PB0002186/28 - TRENT MOTOR TRACTION CO LTD T/A TRENT BUSES, 88A MANSFIELD ROAD, HEANOR, DE75 7BG
Variation Accepted: Operating between Hucknall Station and Hucknall Station given service number Connect effective from 27-Oct-2014. To amend Timetable.

PB0002186/34 - TRENT MOTOR TRACTION CO LTD T/A TRENT BUSES, 88A MANSFIELD ROAD, HEANOR, DE75 7BG
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: HUCKNALL BUS STATION/BEAUVALE POST OFFICE
Finish Point: NOTTINGHAM VICTORIA BUS STATION
Via:
Service Number: CONNECT
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 27-OCT-2014
Other Details: MONDAY TO FRIDAY

 

[harry42]

PB0002186/34 - TRENT MOTOR TRACTION CO LTD T/A TRENT BUSES, 88A MANSFIELD ROAD, HEANOR, DE75 7BG
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: HUCKNALL BUS STATION/BEAUVALE POST OFFICE
Finish Point: NOTTINGHAM VICTORIA BUS STATION
Via:
Service Number: CONNECT
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 27-OCT-2014
Other Details: MONDAY TO FRIDAY

Does that mean a direct service from estates to city cetre then?

 

[Mitch in Notts]

I was wondering that Harry, but wonder if the registration wording is just from an old registration when it was the Hucknall Flyer and trent never updated it. Why would they suddenly start that again when it ran half empty before.....?

 

[Deerfold]

I was wondering that Harry, but wonder if the registration wording is just from an old registration when it was the Hucknall Flyer and trent never updated it. Why would they suddenly start that again when it ran half empty before.....?

Quite possibly. It's a variation rather than a new registration. Vosa rarely updates the details of the route in the registration for some reason.

 

[tbone]

It's registered as a new service so that rules out the above, the first part shows that Connect was not an amended Hucknal Flyer but a new registration.

I'd image it'll be peak hour journeys to take some pressure off the Threes

 

[Deerfold]

It's registered as a new service so that rules out the above, the first part shows that Connect was not an amended Hucknal Flyer but a new registration.

I'd image it'll be peak hour journeys to take some pressure off the Threes

This is a Variation, not a new registration. I'm not sure what makes you think this is a new registration. It's a variation of the existing Connect registration.

PB0002186/28 - TRENT MOTOR TRACTION CO LTD T/A TRENT BUSES, 88A MANSFIELD ROAD, HEANOR, DE75 7BG
Variation Accepted: Operating between Hucknall Station and Hucknall Station given service number Connect effective from 27-Oct-2014. To amend Timetable.

PB0002186/34 - TRENT MOTOR TRACTION CO LTD T/A TRENT BUSES, 88A MANSFIELD ROAD, HEANOR, DE75 7BG
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: HUCKNALL BUS STATION/BEAUVALE POST OFFICE
Finish Point: NOTTINGHAM VICTORIA BUS STATION
Via:
Service Number: CONNECT
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 27-OCT-2014
Other Details: MONDAY TO FRIDAY

 

[tbone]

The bottom bit!! The first is a variation, presumably reducing the current timetable around peak hours.

The second bit "registration accepted" is the new part between Hucknall estates and Nottingham Victoria. It's Monday to Friday aswell- another indicator that it's weekday peak times.

 

[Deerfold]

The bottom bit!! The first is a variation, presumably reducing the current timetable around peak hours.

The second bit "registration accepted" is the new part between Hucknall estates and Nottingham Victoria. It's Monday to Friday aswell- another indicator that it's weekday peak times.

Yep. Remind me to have an early night tonight!

 

[ashworth]

It's registered as a new service so that rules out the above, the first part shows that Connect was not an amended Hucknal Flyer but a new registration.

I'd image it'll be peak hour journeys to take some pressure off the Threes

I don't think it will be to take pressure off the Threes. It is far more likely to be for the purpose of getting rid of the competition between Hucknall and Nottingham from AOT service 8. I'm just surprised that Trent/Barton have left it so long. There has been lots of local pressure in the press for Trent/Barton to restore the Hucknall Flyer and they have until now always been determined not to. If it does happen I don't think it will last for long if once they manage to force AOT off the route.

Also in the Hucknall area I notice that Trent/Barton are now charging the same prices on their 141 from the villages of Linby and Papplewick to Nottingham as from Mansfield. These villages are only on the outskirts of Hucknall yet now pay more than from Newstead and even Kirkby in Ashfield which are on the Threes route and are much further north of Hucknall. The Threes route has competition from the train but of course there is no competition on the 141 route.

I'm not completely anti Trent/Barton, I think they are a good company with well maintained buses and very helpful and friendly staff. However, living on the 141 route I have always noticed how they have taken advantage of being able to charge high fares on routes with no competition.

 

[WillPS]

I dunno what the deal is with the 141. It's the sort of route which would normally be quite heavily supported by subsidy yet I don't think this is the case - perhaps the high fares are the only thing keeping it in action?

 

[winston270twm]

Yourbus' Mercs are apparently delayed and their general manager is leaving for the second time...

Is much happening with Yourbus of late?

Only reason I ask is they they seem to be loosing yet more NX coach work as posted elsewhere:

Yourbus have lost the 425/6/435/6 contracts to Go North East.

Also possible that the 591/4 will transfer as well.

Contracts and ops will have changed by end of September.

Hi Martin/all,

Possible transfer of 6 or 8 '60' plates (4001/3/4/6/7/8/9/10/11/12 remain at Yourbus)
6 to cover the services gained and 2 to replace K2/3 VOY to allow them to become DTV's.

This will also affect a number of Yourbus services leaving VCS early morning.

0700 561 Bradford (Arr VCS 436 at 0550 from South Shields)
Replaced by the 425 which will leave VCS at 0700 and will omit Golders Green but direct Sheffield (1045), Meadowhall (1100), Leeds (1145-1215), Darlington (1335), Durham (1355) & Newcastle (1435).
This service replaces the GON 0930 425 to Newcastle as well.

0800 561 Bradford (Arr 0620 435 from Ashington)
0830 440 Derby (Arr 0620 594 from Edinburgh)
0900 591 Edinburgh (Arr 2035 previous evening - 1520 ex Bradford)

HTH,

Jake


There is also a long list of staff vacancies at Heanor:

http://www.catchyourbus.co.uk/jobs/index.html

 

[Robertj21a]

Is much happening with Yourbus of late?

Only reason I ask is they they seem to be loosing yet more NX coach work as posted elsewhere:

Yourbus have lost the 425/6/435/6 contracts to Go North East.

Also possible that the 591/4 will transfer as well.

Contracts and ops will have changed by end of September.

Hi Martin/all,

Possible transfer of 6 or 8 '60' plates (4001/3/4/6/7/8/9/10/11/12 remain at Yourbus)
6 to cover the services gained and 2 to replace K2/3 VOY to allow them to become DTV's.

This will also affect a number of Yourbus services leaving VCS early morning.

0700 561 Bradford (Arr VCS 436 at 0550 from South Shields)
Replaced by the 425 which will leave VCS at 0700 and will omit Golders Green but direct Sheffield (1045), Meadowhall (1100), Leeds (1145-1215), Darlington (1335), Durham (1355) & Newcastle (1435).
This service replaces the GON 0930 425 to Newcastle as well.

0800 561 Bradford (Arr 0620 435 from Ashington)
0830 440 Derby (Arr 0620 594 from Edinburgh)
0900 591 Edinburgh (Arr 2035 previous evening - 1520 ex Bradford)

HTH,

Jake


There is also a long list of staff vacancies at Heanor:

http://www.catchyourbus.co.uk/jobs/index.html

Seems that their Marketing guy has now left as well. Perhaps Scott needs to get a plane back.

 

[winston270twm]

Seems that their Marketing guy has now left as well. Perhaps Scott needs to get a plane back.

That's was the kind of response I was expecting......

The Marketing Guy (John Everill) & Operations Manager (Stephen Bryce) have worked with Scott Dunn years and followed him around, it seems interest in Yourbus might now be floundering since Scott moved to Australia.

The amount of NX work is shrinking, none of the Yourbus vehicles that have been for sale for ages have been sold, no sign of any new routes etc

 

[harry42]

Out of curiosity, whats happened to High Peak 029 service? Cant find anything on VOSA, it was on their route list a few days ago but now its vanished?

 

[winston270twm]

From NX Coach Yahoo Group:

Last minute change of plan from NX - Yourbus have kept the 425/435/426/436/591/594 for now due to a vehicle shortage at GNE. Also appears that K2/3 VOY at GNE are now withdrawn and in the training fleet.

No changes to 435/436 timetable.
The timetable has changed on the 425/426 and is now as follows:

425 Northbound
VCS (13:00), Milton Keynes (14:25), Leeds (17:15), Harewood (18:10), Harrogate (18:30), Ripon (19:00), Darlington (19:40) Durham (20:10) Chester-le-Street (20:25) Washington (20:35) Newcastle (20:50),
North Shields (21:10) Whitley Bay (21:20) Blyth (21:35) & Ashington (21:50).

425 Southbound
Ashington (07:55), Blyth (08:10), Whitley Bay (08:25), North Shields (08:35), Newcastle (09:05), Washington (09:30), Chester-le-Street (09:40), Durham (10:00), Darlington (10:35), Ripon (11:20), Harrogate (11:50), Harewood (12:05), Leeds (12:30), Milton Keynes (15:40), Marble Arch (17:05) & VCS (17:15).

426 Northbound
VCS (13:00), Milton Keynes (14:25), Leeds (17:15), Middlesbrough (19:25), Stockton-on-Tees (19:35), Billingham (19:45), Hartlepool (20:00), Peterlee (20:15), Sunderland (20:35) & South Shields (20:55).

426 Southbound
South Shields (09:10), Sunderland (09:40), Peterlee (10:00), Hartlepool (10:20), Billingham (10:35), Stockton-on-Tees (10:45), Middlesbrough (11:00), Leeds (12:30), Milton Keynes (15:40), Marble Arch (17:05) & VCS (17:15).

 

[harry42]

"For now..."

 

[tbone]

If any one fancies a laugh check out the Trent Barton homepage!

 

[MCR247]

Haha

 

[Mitch in Notts]

The issues with regard to the Kangaroo ticket problems remain a mystery but NCT have posted this on facebook today:
"There are a number of rogue Kangaroo tickets in circulation at the moment Barbara Calver and drivers have been instructed to refuse some of them because they're being issued by operators not in the Kangaroo scheme. "
So are we saying that AOT etc are issuing Kangaroo tickets when they aren't actually in the 'club'. But if they aren't in the club surely they don't get paid for them. And if the Kangaroo is an All Operator ticket surely this means it isn't!

 

[ACBest]

The issues with regard to the Kangaroo ticket problems remain a mystery but NCT have posted this on facebook today:
"There are a number of rogue Kangaroo tickets in circulation at the moment Barbara Calver and drivers have been instructed to refuse some of them because they're being issued by operators not in the Kangaroo scheme. "
So are we saying that AOT etc are issuing Kangaroo tickets when they aren't actually in the 'club'. But if they aren't in the club surely they don't get paid for them. And if the Kangaroo is an All Operator ticket surely this means it isn't!

The Kangaroo ticket is supposed to be an all-operator ticket, but it's clear to see why this isn't currently the case - there's an ongoing dispute. AOT were indeed issuing them without being signed up to the scheme - not only that, but they were also issuing them from outside the schemes area.

They apparently offered a Hucknall Kangaroo... Slight problem there!

 

[Deerfold]

The issues with regard to the Kangaroo ticket problems remain a mystery but NCT have posted this on facebook today:
"There are a number of rogue Kangaroo tickets in circulation at the moment Barbara Calver and drivers have been instructed to refuse some of them because they're being issued by operators not in the Kangaroo scheme. "
So are we saying that AOT etc are issuing Kangaroo tickets when they aren't actually in the 'club'. But if they aren't in the club surely they don't get paid for them. And if the Kangaroo is an All Operator ticket surely this means it isn't!

They won't get paid for people using them within Nottingham - but that'll probably be a small number compared to the fact they're keeping all the money for ones issued in the Hucknall area.

 

[trentside]

Am I right in thinking that Nottingham Minibus aren't in the scheme either?

 

[kevjs]

The Kangaroo ticket is supposed to be an all-operator ticket, but it's clear to see why this isn't currently the case - there's an ongoing dispute. AOT were indeed issuing them without being signed up to the scheme - not only that, but they were also issuing them from outside the schemes area.

They apparently offered a Hucknall Kangaroo... Slight problem there!

ISTR reading somewhere that a PAYG Kangaroo* is due to launch later this year - do you know any more about that?

*i.e. use on NCT bus during a day the NCT single fare is taken from your Kangaroo, use a dozen NCT buses and the NCT daily ticket is taken from your Kangaroo, use an NCT bus and a tram and the Kangaroo City daily fee is taken...

If that does come to fruition it will be rather handy as I don't always know if a second trip will be made (i.e. bus into work and last bus or taxi home) - even better if it works on your debit card like it now does in that there London.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

ISTR reading somewhere that a PAYG Kangaroo* is due to launch later this year - do you know any more about that?

*i.e. use on NCT bus during a day the NCT single fare is taken from your Kangaroo, use a dozen NCT buses and the NCT daily ticket is taken from your Kangaroo, use an NCT bus and a tram and the Kangaroo City daily fee is taken...

If that does come to fruition it will be rather handy as I don't always know if a second trip will be made (i.e. bus into work and last bus or taxi home) - even better if it works on your debit card like it now does in that there London.

Be interesting to see if the technology would work!! Trents mango won't cap at the kangaroo price wholly within the city but charges you the zigzag fare or for individual journeys if before 9am so doesn't always work out cheaper!

 

[ACBest]

Am I right in thinking that Nottingham Minibus aren't in the scheme either?

Correct, forgot about them! I'm not sure what the deal with them not being in the scheme is - I can only assume they've either not been consulted or aren't interested in joining.

I hadn't heard about a PAYG Kangaroo card, to reply to the other post - however it's certainly an interesting idea, although it would likely cause technical headaches owing to the fact it'd need to understand what it was being tapped against in detail. (Has it been touched on at a tram stop, train station, on-train, an NCT bus, a YB bus, a TB bus, a Stagecoach bus etc etc). Although, that said, I'm no expert at how ITSO smart technology works, so it may well be the easiest thing in the world.

There'd then be the headache of having to provide additional equipment on some vehicles. NCT's have a flat fare, so nothing additional needed there. Stagecoach and YourBus (on the Y5) don't, so they'd need to invest in touch-off readers - or allow users to touch-off using the ticket machine, thus adding extra time at each stop (which is valuable on a 10-minute service like pronto) as well as an onus on users to actually remember to touch out. EMT would have to provide readers at Beeston, Netherfield Junction, Bulwell and Carlton.

And in the case of Nottingham Community Transport, they actually need to get all new ticket machines first, as they still use the trusty Almex A90!

 

[Deerfold]

Correct, forgot about them! I'm not sure what the deal with them not being in the scheme is - I can only assume they've either not been consulted or aren't interested in joining.

I hadn't heard about a PAYG Kangaroo card, to reply to the other post - however it's certainly an interesting idea, although it would likely cause technical headaches owing to the fact it'd need to understand what it was being tapped against in detail. (Has it been touched on at a tram stop, train station, on-train, an NCT bus, a YB bus, a TB bus, a Stagecoach bus etc etc). Although, that said, I'm no expert at how ITSO smart technology works, so it may well be the easiest thing in the world.

There'd then be the headache of having to provide additional equipment on some vehicles. NCT's have a flat fare, so nothing additional needed there. Stagecoach and YourBus (on the Y5) don't, so they'd need to invest in touch-off readers - or allow users to touch-off using the ticket machine, thus adding extra time at each stop (which is valuable on a 10-minute service like pronto) as well as an onus on users to actually remember to touch out. EMT would have to provide readers at Beeston, Netherfield Junction, Bulwell and Carlton.

And in the case of Nottingham Community Transport, they actually need to get all new ticket machines first, as they still use the trusty Almex A90!

Yourbus already have a smartcard system https://catchyourbus.co.uk/genie/ - presumably you'd have to tell the driver where you were going when you touched in.

EMT already have ITSO at Beeston and Bulwell: http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/tickets-deals/ticket-types/smartcards/

 

[harry42]

27th October - connect green will be extended to Nottingham during peak times.

3rd November - Duplicate swift journeys will be operated by Notts & Derby Monday - Friday at 09:30 and 11:30 from Ashbourne, and 14:05 from Derby to Ashbourne.

17th November - An extra journey on the 21 will operate Monday - Friday at 1735 from Nottingham.

club class will be withdrawn from Borrowash, and will revert to running between Nottingham and Sandiacre White Lion only.

Extra i4 journeys between Sandicare and Nottingham during morning peak will operate from this date.

 

[ACBest]

Yourbus already have a smartcard system https://catchyourbus.co.uk/genie/ - presumably you'd have to tell the driver where you were going when you touched in.

EMT already have ITSO at Beeston and Bulwell: http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/tickets-deals/ticket-types/smartcards/

I wasn't aware of the ITSO readers at those two stations, apologies!

As for Genie, I know about that, I've had one sitting in my drawer for months, however what I'm saying is that for a PAYG system to work effectively, it needs a touch-off reader to work fares out, in order to understand when you've reached the cap. Without a touch off reader, where flat fares aren't used, the system can't work as it won't know where you're going - and if the driver is having to manually input where you're going, then what's the point in a smart card?

 

[edwin_m]

Any operator that offers different fares by distance will certainly need a touch-off reader. Trent Barton has these already for Mango.

The ITSO standard was designed for use in the UK's weird and wonderful bus regulatory environment, so it ought to be able to cope with multiple operators using different fare scales and some but not all needing touch-off.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Has anyone realised that this thread was first opened on 21st September 2010, so now has celebrated its fourth anniversary very recently.