Nottingham 'Bus War'

[radamfi]

if the driver is having to manually input where you're going, then what's the point in a smart card?

That is, unfortunately, how it works on Dublin Bus! There is an option to deduct the maximum fare without driver interaction, but for other fares you need to ask the driver where you are going. So it really is only useful as a kind of debit card, and in Dublin you have the additional benefit of not needing to have exact change.

Touch in and touch out is the most sensible way of implementing smartcards in areas without flat fares, but an alternative that is used in Gothenburg where a zonal system is used is to require the passenger to press a button on the card reader before touching in to tell it if you are going out of zone. For staying in the same zone, you just touch in.

Topping up the card by giving money to the driver is barmy.

 

[Pe251lz]

Has anyone realised that this thread was first opened on 21st September 2010, so now has celebrated its fourth anniversary very recently.

Yes lol and a lots happened
All seems rather boring since the demise of Premiere though lol

 

[Deerfold]

Any operator that offers different fares by distance will certainly need a touch-off reader. Trent Barton has these already for Mango.

It might be more sensible, but it's not a neccessity. As I've already mentioned Yourbus's Genie system doesn't need a touch-off - it needs driver interaction (As did the ancient Pathfinder smartcard, amongst the first in the UK and certainly pre-ITSO).

 

[trentside]

Has anyone realised that this thread was first opened on 21st September 2010, so now has celebrated its fourth anniversary very recently.

Certainly the most successful thread I've created Paul

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PAYG Kangaroo does sound an interesting concept - like others, will be curious to see how it works in practice.

 

[ACBest]

Just to go back to the latest updates from the world of trent barton, it does sound like they're about to try and give AOT a run for their money with the extension of a small number of connect runs in to Nottingham - obvious competition against 8AOT.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out and if it turns in to an all day thing eventually.

 

[ashworth]

Just to go back to the latest updates from the world of trent barton, it does sound like they're about to try and give AOT a run for their money with the extension of a small number of connect runs in to Nottingham - obvious competition against 8AOT.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out and if it turns in to an all day thing eventually.

When Trent Barton withdrew the Hucknall Flier there was lots of local opposition to it from residents of the Hucknall estates that it served. Many people had much longer journeys into Nottingham for work. The local newspaper the Hucknall and Bulwell Dispatch ran quite a high profile campaign to get the service restored. Trent Barton would not listen. Therefore I can only presume that the sole purpose of this new venture is to force the 8AOT off the road. When this has been achieved will Trent Barton continue to run through buses from the Hucknall estates to Nottingham?

 

[MCR247]

They'd probably run it down and eventually stop. I.e if the peak journeys are successful, they'd probably run it all day until AOT gave up, revert to peak journeys and then stop it (but naturally they'd give it some spin to make it look like they were doing everyone a favour)

 

[Mitch in Notts]

I think you have hit the nail on the head with regard to Hucknall competition - a mere attempt to force AOT off of the road. And then revert back to current 3 vehicle levels - used to be 4 but Trent couldn't make it pay!
Look at the increase in service levels to Radcliffe & Bingham since Premiere went - none. And look at the daily complaints about overcrowding & missing buses on the Rushcliffe Greens of late.
Similarly there is now growing overcrowding on the Rainbow1 since smaller buses were introduced. My mother rarely gets a seat on the same journey she has always used to town and often has to stand. Last night passengers were standing the length of the bus on buses arriving into Kimberley at 7pm from Nottingham!

 

[Mugby]

I had reason to complain recently about being left behind by the red arrow. The reply I received amounted to a load of rubbish about duplicates being provided when necessary.

TrentBarton really need to reconsider their opposition to double deckers, it seems quite ridiculous that Notts & Derby have them and use them often on contracted services while the main fleet is leaving people behind on flagship services.

The really good bus company is doing itself no favours whatsoever in this regard!

 

[Robertj21a]

Unfortunately, the Really Good Bus Company isn't. True, their drivers are excellent and the buses are always clean and very presentable but there's never enough of them and they absolutely refuse to buy double deckers.

It's a great shame that they're now a company that comes over as rather arrogant and ignores what many people actually want. It wouldn't take much to change perceptions, but there seems to be no desire to change.

 

[tbone]

Odd that people suggest that Trent Barton do nothing regarding overcrowding particularly when it stems from a thread about extra journeys! Duplicates on Swift, i4 and the 21 and connect duplicating the threes.

Buses don't grow on trees nor does the money to pay from. Peak demand is often in one direction aswell, increasing the frequency in one direction means you have to in the other, and is that cost effective?

I have rarely had a seat on my bus into Derby since they rebranded it three years ago. It's a pain, but I'm not stupid enough to realise that if it was commercially viable to double the frequency they would do. I think you can rest assured that they are looking at ways of solving overcrowding and implementing them where feasible (as they are now with mine).

I'd also be interested to know If these corridors would be as successful with a different company running them. I suspect not.

 

[ACBest]

Odd that people suggest that Trent Barton do nothing regarding overcrowding particularly when it stems from a thread about extra journeys! Duplicates on Swift, i4 and the 21 and connect duplicating the threes.

Buses don't grow on trees nor does the money to pay from. Peak demand is often in one direction aswell, increasing the frequency in one direction means you have to in the other, and is that cost effective?

I have rarely had a seat on my bus into Derby since they rebranded it three years ago. It's a pain, but I'm not stupid enough to realise that if it was commercially viable to double the frequency they would do. I think you can rest assured that they are looking at ways of solving overcrowding and implementing them where feasible (as they are now with mine).

I'd also be interested to know If these corridors would be as successful with a different company running them. I suspect not.

Depends what the other company is offering, surely? If the different company is offering similar fares, similar journey times and is able to offer the same comfort and reliability as the original one, I reckon they could become successful.

Y1 and Y3 were certainly two good examples of that when I travelled on the routes. They came first, the buses were just as good and they were cheaper. This made for full buses by the time they got to Derby - with empty trentbarton ones a few minutes behind!

Y36 seems the bus of choice from Chilwell to Nottingham since NCT halved their service to the area too - perhaps the first proper example of a corridor being as - if not slightly more - successful with a different company running it?

 

[Robertj21a]

Odd that people suggest that Trent Barton do nothing regarding overcrowding particularly when it stems from a thread about extra journeys! Duplicates on Swift, i4 and the 21 and connect duplicating the threes.

Buses don't grow on trees nor does the money to pay from. Peak demand is often in one direction aswell, increasing the frequency in one direction means you have to in the other, and is that cost effective?

I have rarely had a seat on my bus into Derby since they rebranded it three years ago. It's a pain, but I'm not stupid enough to realise that if it was commercially viable to double the frequency they would do. I think you can rest assured that they are looking at ways of solving overcrowding and implementing them where feasible (as they are now with mine).

I'd also be interested to know If these corridors would be as successful with a different company running them. I suspect not.

You rather confirm my point. Unfortunately, Trent/Wellglade tend to not do anything until everything is overloaded whereas most operators would consider that a bus well loaded but with some spare capacity is the ideal. Once passengers find that they can't get a seat, or have to stand, they'll be off looking for alternatives.

Either Trent should consider more improved frequencies on a few key routes or look to get larger buses. As they already use full size buses on most services it would be logical to look at double deckers (or artics). They can't have it both ways and expect to thrive when others are prepared to come in and compete against them.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

You rather confirm my point. Unfortunately, Trent/Wellglade tend to not do anything until everything is overloaded whereas most operators would consider that a bus well loaded but with some spare capacity is the ideal. Once passengers find that they can't get a seat, or have to stand, they'll be off looking for alternatives.

Either Trent should consider more improved frequencies on a few key routes or look to get larger buses. As they already use full size buses on most services it would be logical to look at double deckers (or artics). They can't have it both ways and expect to thrive when others are prepared to come in and compete against them.

That is very true and seems to be Trents plan. 18 years ago they cut the morning commuter service from my village. 12 people from my stop alone converted overnight to their cars. This reduced rush hour overcrowding! Problem is that in those 18 years the frequency has remained at 10minutes but the buses have shrunk from mainly 70 seater double deckers to overcrowded 42 seater or whatever it is we have on the rainbow1 now. In 1996 I was told that Trents plan was for a 7/8minute frequency on the Eastwood corridor using single deckers. We are still waiting.

 

[starrymarkb]

Pity there are no RHD Artics being built now (thank you Boris)

 

[kevjs]

Buses don't grow on trees nor does the money to pay from. Peak demand is often in one direction aswell, increasing the frequency in one direction means you have to in the other, and is that cost effective?

The Peak demand often only effects two or three buses though - which means you can do what NCT do on some routes (usually for around a year or so until they get fully double decked) which is to run a double decker on the key services at peak times with the rest of the fleet being on singles. During the day they then get shuffled about to ensure that during the evening peak the doubles are again on the right services.

 

[harry42]

Not Nottingham I know, but does anyone have an idea whether 'Katie' the yellow school bus (although often seen on town services) from High Peak has been withdrawn?
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Not Nottingham I know, but does anyone have an idea whether 'Katie' the yellow school bus (although often seen on town services) from High Peak has been withdrawn?

Also, have they lost the contract for the 029 school service?

 

[Ginga]

Quick update Paul Major is returning to Yourbus. He is the former National Express Manager of the year. The new Service Delivery Manager is coming from Trent Barton.

 

[winston270twm]

Quick update Paul Major is returning to Yourbus. He is the former National Express Manager of the year. The new Service Delivery Manager is coming from Trent Barton.

Interesting!

There are also registrations today on VOSA for timetable/route changes

PB1086799/28 - DUNN MOTOR TRACTION LTD T/A YOUR BUS, HEANOR GATE INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, HEANOR GATE ROAD, HEANOR, DE75 7RJ

Variation Accepted: Operating between Nottingham, Victoria Centre and Bilborough given service number Y28 effective from 23-Nov-2014. To amend Route and Timetable.

PB1086799/39 - DUNN MOTOR TRACTION LTD T/A YOUR BUS, HEANOR GATE INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, HEANOR GATE ROAD, HEANOR, DE75 7RJ

Variation Accepted: Operating between RIPLEY, MARKET PLACE and DERBY given service number Y1 'THE HEANOR GLIDER' effective from 23-Nov-2014. To amend Route and Timetable.


Surely the Euro 6 Citaro's can't be far off delivery now with others having received them.

 

[ACBest]

I had heard unconfirmed rumours - so do not shoot the messenger, as even I'm sceptical of this - that they couldn't actually afford any further Citaros and whoever they lease them from had said no.

I find this difficult to believe as if this were the case, surely some of their existing stock would've been taken back from them - although, that said, I do recall a report of one of their NX vehicles being clamped by bailiffs previously. (See: https://twitter.com/LEYTR/status/377369676814491648)

 

[winston270twm]

I had heard unconfirmed rumours - so do not shoot the messenger, as even I'm sceptical of this - that they couldn't actually afford any further Citaros and whoever they lease them from had said no.

I find this difficult to believe as if this were the case, surely some of their existing stock would've been taken back from them - although, that said, I do recall a report of one of their NX vehicles being clamped by bailiffs previously. (See: https://twitter.com/LEYTR/status/377369676814491648)

That might also explain why a few staff loyal to Scott have jumped ship of late?

Their accounts to 28/3/13 on companies house showed Yourbus to be quite profitable even whilst Citylink was still operating, although the company was carrying a large amount of debt. The next accounts aren't due until 30/11/14, these will likely show a reduction in turnover as most of the North East NX work was relinquished/lost & Durham depot was closed during that period and Citylink was withdrawn.

 

[Deerfold]

Y36 seems the bus of choice from Chilwell to Nottingham since NCT halved their service to the area too - perhaps the first proper example of a corridor being as - if not slightly more - successful with a different company running it?

Perhaps the first in Nottingham. In Halifax, HJC competed with First on their half hourly 535 and 507 routes (with their 36 and 34A). HJC ran every 15 minutes - and continued running every 15 minutes when First withdrew - even after being taken over by Centrebus Holdings and then Arriva/Yorkshire Tiger.

 

[Ginga]

Quick update on Nottingham Coaches (owned by the ex Premiere Directors). They are running 5 School services for Notts County council with 5 Plaxton Coaches and a Dennis. Was told on Sunday that they are taking on more ex Premiere work late this year and in January.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

I was told today by a customer who uses their hire service that Silverdale Coaches are being bought out by Skills. I haven't verified this with my Skills informant yet.....

 

[trentside]

Quick update on Nottingham Coaches (owned by the ex Premiere Directors). They are running 5 School services for Notts County council with 5 Plaxton Coaches and a Dennis. Was told on Sunday that they are taking on more ex Premiere work late this year and in January.

Clearly a surefire way to financial success :roll:

Hopefully they'll learn from past mistakes and not just relaunch the same unsustainable services.

 

[harry42]

I have a bad feeling about this Nottingham Coaches...I don't think their going to learn from past mistakes and will go plunging in. (From the cynical me)

 

[ACBest]

The key to their success will lie with how fast they grow - although with that amount of vehicles and contracts, plus ideas to start service work that soon, it already sounds as if they've grown too fast before getting very far at all!

 

[harry42]

Rumours of Red 1 starting again from Nottingham City Coaches...

 

[Mugby]

Do they have a website? I can't find anything.

 

[trentside]

Do they have a website? I can't find anything.

Yes, but there's not much information on there.

http://www.nottinghamcoach.co.uk/