Nottingham 'Bus War'

[Urobach]

But if you miss the X38s run by Arriva you'll have to put up with those 2 unreliable Tempos that Trent allocate (when they're actually available) - or anything else they dig up. About time Trent sorted their X38s out !

Supposedly, 307 has been replaced at Derby with (red) 744

 

[Mitch in Notts]

I have been reliably informed there was some sort of Green Alexander bus on the Rainbow1 this morning - seen heading to Eastwood on possibly the 10a.m. from Victoria.
Probably covering for the blue one that crashed into a kerb on Heanor hill on Monday. They also had one broken down at Larkfield Road on Wednesday evening.

 

[tbone]

Yes ADL Enviro 200 MMC YX65 RLO is currently on loan.

It's spent today doing a 'V' shape, Eastwood(?) to Victoria on Rainbow One, Victoria to Ilkeston on the two and then the reverse. It's running without a ticket machine (so free trips) and is supplementary to the timetable rather than running in place of branded vehicles.

The fact that it's being used on routes that have not long had new buses suggests this is a generic vehicle test rather than trying a particular bus for a particular route. Rainbow one has also been a test route for a number of other demonstrators in the past (none of which have resulted in orders, I might add!)

 

[Flying Snail]

Yes, but died a death when they decided to launch the new Skylink Express.

I assume that means they are getting rid of the Inter Centurys, they'd have plenty of coaches for the 3 routes with them.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Trent Barton says sorry to Bingham Town Council......

http://newarkadvertiser.co.uk/articles/news/QLyWKAQ3IHscI0oFjEnsWIFyUQiIbiervNdeqBv5nJ8un

Yourbus S1 replaced by Nottinghamshire County Council 536 from 2nd January. Seems to be something wrong with the timetable to me.....

http://www.catchyourbus.co.uk/news/Resources/536.pdf

 

[Volvo142]

Supposedly, 307 has been replaced at Derby with (red) 744

307 was in use on the X38 yesterday

 

[tramdan]

I'm in London at present. Have the ticket machines that randomly appeared recently advertising Citycard top-ups now started advertising Robin Hood card instead?

They now serve a dual purpose and do work with RH cards and Citycards. I have tried both on the machine on Carrington Street. On launch day however there did seem to be issues as a few machines were out of cards, likely due to popularity.

 

[derbybusdepot]

307 was in use on the X38 yesterday

I believe 308 is currently off the road, possibly replaced by red 744 (ex TWO Volvo) which now appears to be at Derby. Not sure if 307 and 308 are to be refurbished for the X38. 2 Volvo would be better suited in my opinion.

Have heard the Skylink Express will need 4 coaches - running every 30 minutes allowing for a 2 hour round trip (to take account for traffic, boarding/alighting! Seemed a little excessive to me!). This could mean the coach currently at TM is just on loan?

The 8 04 plate coaches have been sold to Littles, Ilkeston. Most if not all are likely to be sold on.

 

[tbone]

I believe 308 is currently off the road, possibly replaced by red 744 (ex TWO Volvo) which now appears to be at Derby. Not sure if 307 and 308 are to be refurbished for the X38. 2 Volvo would be better suited in my opinion.

Have heard the Skylink Express will need 4 coaches - running every 30 minutes allowing for a 2 hour round trip (to take account for traffic, boarding/alighting! Seemed a little excessive to me!). This could mean the coach currently at TM is just on loan?

The 8 04 plate coaches have been sold to Littles, Ilkeston. Most if not all are likely to be sold on.

I wonder if the X38 tempos will be coming off to increase the frequency of the Rushcliffe Mainline which is often said to be overcrowded.

The timetable for Skylink express is now online. 35 minute journey time which allows for 3 coaches with 20 minutes layover time.

 

[derbybusdepot]

I wonder if the X38 tempos will be coming off to increase the frequency of the Rushcliffe Mainline which is often said to be overcrowded.

The timetable for Skylink express is now online. 35 minute journey time which allows for 3 coaches with 20 minutes layover time.

There was a rumour that the Keyworth Connection was to have an increased frequency, with the X38 Tempos used on there. That was when the X38 was getting coaches!

Havent seen the timetable. Where is the timetable for Skylink Express online?? What you describe is what i was expecting to be honest, so was surprised when heard otherwise.

 

[nottinghamcity]

There was a rumour that the Keyworth Connection was to have an increased frequency, with the X38 Tempos used on there. That was when the X38 was getting coaches!

Havent seen the timetable. Where is the timetable for Skylink Express online?? What you describe is what i was expecting to be honest, so was surprised when heard otherwise.

It's here
https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/services/skylinkexpress

 

[ALIEN14247]

By picking up at the Station trentbarton break the rules of the SQPS (if they are using coaches).
One rule for them and one for everybody else. Premiere were forced to use Arkwright Street when they used coaches to the airport.

 

[ashworth]

I've not really been following this thread concerning Skylink Express and so I don't know all the history concerning the new service or the service in the past. However, I am surprised that it is does not seem to be going to stop at East Midlands Parkway.

 

[derbybusdepot]

By picking up at the Station trentbarton break the rules of the SQPS (if they are using coaches).
One rule for them and one for everybody else. Premiere were forced to use Arkwright Street when they used coaches to the airport.

The coaches are fitted with a wheelchair lift. Not sure if that makes a difference?

Personally, I don't think this service will work, whilst the current skylink remains unchanged, at the same frequency. A percentage of customers will just use the express rather than the skylink, potentially leading to lots of half empty buses.

Then again i assume they have assessed the market. At the same time the indigo will run less frequently between Nottingham and Long Eaton (due to tram) and loss making routes Ruddington Connection and Club Class have been axed, all saving money. And they have three coaches spare with no real use for them. So, worth having a go.

It would be good if it does work. Nottingham should have a direct link to the airport. However for the last few years people have been forced to travel via Long Eaton, doubling the journey time. People travelling habits have changed. Will they change back?

There is no service between 11pm and 4am. Perhaps people don't need to get to and from the airport then, but the service does serve the Clifton Campus of Nottingham University. Did NCT not get alot of custom from here on their old direct Skylink service?

 

[edwin_m]

Personally, I don't think this service will work, whilst the current skylink remains unchanged, at the same frequency. A percentage of customers will just use the express rather than the skylink, potentially leading to lots of half empty buses.

...

However for the last few years people have been forced to travel via Long Eaton, doubling the journey time. People travelling habits have changed. Will they change back?

I think you've sort of answered your own question here. The existing Skylink is too slow for most air passengers to/from Nottingham city centre and probably too slow for many employees. A faster service along the A453 solves this problem and also re-connects Clifton and parts of West Bridgford to the airport. However, despite what I just wrote, I do have my doubts about whether it will work given the fate of the Red Flyer. If it does then the existing Skylink will probably go back to being a branch of the Indigo.

There is no service between 11pm and 4am. Perhaps people don't need to get to and from the airport then...

Just checked the airport website and the last arrival tonight is 2310 with the first departure in the morning being 0600. So the hours of operation look about right although another one later in the evening would be better. However, in my view, an hourly service in the evening isn't good enough to attract air passengers, given the uncertainty on when a flight actually arrives and how long it then takes to get out of the airport. Since it opened a new pier EMA isn't the compact and quick airport it was a few years back.

...but the service does serve the Clifton Campus of Nottingham University. Did NCT not get alot of custom from here on their old direct Skylink service?

Possibly, but they now have the 4 that serves the campus directly and includes night journeys. I suspect TB will happily forego the custom of the sort of passenger that uses late-night journeys from the town centre back to the campus.

Incidentally I drove outbound on the A453 yesterday in my first rush hour visit since it was finished. Virtually clear from Silverdale to J24 but the roundabout there was very congested.

 

[the101]

By picking up at the Station trentbarton break the rules of the SQPS (if they are using coaches).

I highly doubt what you're saying, unless you could furnish us with exactly what aspect of the SQP is being violated?

 

[ag51ruk]

I highly doubt what you're saying, unless you could furnish us with exactly what aspect of the SQP is being violated?

I think there is a clause requiring all buses to be easy-access if they stop at any stop in the designated area, except for the Victoria or Broadmarsh bus stations - the SQP area extends to the railway station

Edit: but thinking about it, the Red Arrow stops within the zone as well - so I've checked the wording and it says that low floor buses must be used, except for "high quality coaches used on local services" - so no problems with them stopping at the station

 

[Mitch in Notts]

I think the set up slightly weird. Club Class starts on Friar Lane. One vehicle used to do a run on the Ruddington Connection at 08.20ish. This journey could NOT stop at the railway station as it was a coach (it stated so in the timetable footnotes). So something doesn't quite add up.

 

[ag51ruk]

I think the set up slightly weird. Club Class starts on Friar Lane. One vehicle used to do a run on the Ruddington Connection at 08.20ish. This journey could NOT stop at the railway station as it was a coach (it stated so in the timetable footnotes). So something doesn't quite add up.

This was the document I looked at - see the "bus operators duties" section, including the small print (note - this url will automatically download a PDF)

http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=43232&p=0

 

[Ginga]

Red Arrow got away with using Coaches as they said Wheelchair users could use Indigo or i4 to Derby. Same story with Club Class and i4.

I'm worried about Yourbus , they have lost National Express , Derby County Council work and Uni Hopper, I cannot see how ,they can fund those Citaro's and Streetlites.

One of the lads said they have been promised a Pay rise in April, but with Insurance cost's going Sky high they will need to raise prices.

 

[nottinghamcity]

This was the document I looked at - see the "bus operators duties" section, including the small print (note - this url will automatically download a PDF)

http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=43232&p=0

There it is then. A specific exemption for just this type of service

 

[Pigalle]

Red Arrow got away with using Coaches as they said Wheelchair users could use Indigo or i4 to Derby. Same story with Club Class and i4.

I'm not sure what this has to do with SQPS since SQPS only covers central Nottingham and there are plenty of low floor wheel chair accessible buses to carry wheelchair users across the SQPS area.

Also just for the record SQPS started in 2010 and since the introduction of the Scania/Irizar I4 on the Red Arrow in 2010 it has been possible to accommodate a wheelchair on the service. The current Volvo/Plaxton Elite's are also wheelchair accessible.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This was the document I looked at - see the "bus operators duties" section, including the small print (note - this url will automatically download a PDF)

http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=43232&p=0

And for anyone interested here is the full legal document for SQPS:

http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=43231&p=0

 

[Marcus Fryer]

This was the document I looked at - see the "bus operators duties" section, including the small print (note - this url will automatically download a PDF)

http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/CH...ast year and the 8 starting up in April 2013?

 

[derbybusdepot]

I think you've sort of answered your own question here. The existing Skylink is too slow for most air passengers to/from Nottingham city centre and probably too slow for many employees. A faster service along the A453 solves this problem and also re-connects Clifton and parts of West Bridgford to the airport. However, despite what I just wrote, I do have my doubts about whether it will work given the fate of the Red Flyer. If it does then the existing Skylink will probably go back to being a branch of the Indigo.



Just checked the airport website and the last arrival tonight is 2310 with the first departure in the morning being 0600. So the hours of operation look about right although another one later in the evening would be better. However, in my view, an hourly service in the evening isn't good enough to attract air passengers, given the uncertainty on when a flight actually arrives and how long it then takes to get out of the airport. Since it opened a new pier EMA isn't the compact and quick airport it was a few years back.



Possibly, but they now have the 4 that serves the campus directly and includes night journeys. I suspect TB will happily forego the custom of the sort of passenger that uses late-night journeys from the town centre back to the campus.

Incidentally I drove outbound on the A453 yesterday in my first rush hour visit since it was finished. Virtually clear from Silverdale to J24 but the roundabout there was very congested.

Agree with all you have said. Assume noone starts of finishes work near the airport between those times either.

Many air passengers will simply not use it as it isn't convenient. Many will have to travel into the city first on a different bus. Also, the service only departs from Broadmarsh and the south of the city. Many bus services terminate at Victoria, will people really want to use the Centrelink to connect - thats assuming its running (or they know it exists) when they need to travel.

 

[the101]

Edit: but thinking about it, the Red Arrow stops within the zone as well - so I've checked the wording and it says that low floor buses must be used, except for "high quality coaches used on local services" - so no problems with them stopping at the station

Thanks for posting that link - so in other words the earlier insinuation from another poster that Trentbarton was failing to observe the SQPS in place in Nottingham is baseless and inaccurate.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Red Arrow got away with using Coaches as they said Wheelchair users could use Indigo or i4 to Derby. Same story with Club Class and i4.

Red Arrow 'got away' with nothing. There is provision in both the Nottingham SQPS and (from 2020) the PSV Accessibility Regulations for the use of coaches on scheduled services.

 

[ALIEN14247]

I'm not sure how you can say my comment was baseless.
I pointed out that Premiere we're not permitted to use the stops outside the Station with their coaches whilst trentbarton are.
It would seem obvious that the clause to allow certain coaches in the scheme would have been a result of trentbarton already operating coaches on the Red Arrow when the scheme was set up.
If cascaded coaches are deemed to be of a sufficient quality to be part of the scheme then fair play to trentbarton.
I guess there would have been a degree of irony about the City Council partly subsiding the new service then not allowing the vehicles to stop at the station.

 

[the101]

I'm not sure how you can say my comment was baseless.
I pointed out that Premiere we're not permitted to use the stops outside the Station with their coaches whilst trentbarton are.
It would seem obvious that the clause to allow certain coaches in the scheme would have been a result of trentbarton already operating coaches on the Red Arrow when the scheme was set up.
If cascaded coaches are deemed to be of a sufficient quality to be part of the scheme then fair play to trentbarton.
I guess there would have been a degree of irony about the City Council partly subsiding the new service then not allowing the vehicles to stop at the station.

It's baseless because there is a clear exemption for coaches in the conditions, something you should perhaps have checked before making the potentially serious allegation that Trentbarton was flouting something enforceable by the Traffic Commissioner.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

It's baseless because there is a clear exemption for coaches in the conditions, something you should perhaps have checked before making the potentially serious allegation that Trentbarton was flouting something enforceable by the Traffic Commissioner.

Could you please explain how the Club Class coach can use the Friar Lane bus stop. But the same Club Class coach cannot use the Nottingham Station stop. Thank you.

 

[CromptonLad]

Pardon the interruption on the current theme of the Notts Bus Wars, but what's the status / 'health' of YourBus these days in the Derby/Notts area?

 

[tbone]

Pardon the interruption on the current theme of the Notts Bus Wars, but what's the status / 'health' of YourBus these days in the Derby/Notts area?

Their areas of work in recent years:

National express (once a sizeable operation): all contracts lost

Tuxford depot contracted work: all lost

Durham depot services: depot closed

Derbyshire CC contracts: Matlock area services lost to Littles, another lost to G & J Holmes

Nottinghamshire CC contracts: all lost

Uni hopper contracts: lost

Commercial services: All (bar the Y10) copy incumbent operator routes. Y5 and Y36 will no doubt have been affected by the tram, probably the Y4 too, although that started after phase 2 opened. Y81/82, Y100, Y29 and Citylink have all bit the dust.

Meanwhile, the 100% shareholder lives with his family in Australia having acquired a successful business there. He has to frequently fly back to the UK or talk over Skype etc in order to run his business. The company is rumoured to be for sale but there will surely come a point when it's not worth keeping the business going if it's not making money. 2016 could be an interesting year for the business.