Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Bus News

[ACBest]

Looking at the timetables I wonder if the Transpeak will interwork with the 61 to Glossop.

Well spotted! Yes, can confirm this will be the case throughout a lot of the day.

 

[danielcanning]

Surely it’s only a matter of time now before the Transpeak route is withdrawn, Highpeak buses should be ashamed. They have let a long established route from Manchester to Derby go to rack and ruin…

 

[richardderby]

Surely it’s only a matter of time now before the Transpeak route is withdrawn, Highpeak buses should be ashamed. They have let a long established route from Manchester to Derby go to rack and ruin…

it was even more popular when it was a through service between Manchester and Nottingham, especially with students and young people. That traffic has headed to the railway...

 

[Geeves]

Having rode the Transpeak from Buxton to Matlock a few things come to mind that might have led to it's demise. Firstly it calls round every small village picking up mostly no one from Buxton to Matlock, is it long distance fast bus or an extremely long stopping service? Secondly the same bus does the entire journey yet the timetable appears like you have to get off an swap buses at Matlock bus station and make a connection but I don't know why. You just stay sitting on the same bus.

Lots of folks got on in Buxton but virtually no one boarded except Matlock. Hell he nearly missed picking us all up entirely one time waiting in the dark at Matlock Bath. . Yes driver, surprise, you have passengers.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Secondly the same bus does the entire journey yet the timetable appears like you have to get off an swap buses at Matlock bus station and make a connection but I don't know why. You just stay sitting on the same bus.

Presumably to comply with drivers hours regulations.

 

[Geeves]

Ahhh Okay, I mean it only sits there for 5 minutes so not much of a break !

 

[Andy Pacer]

Ahhh Okay, I mean it only sits there for 5 minutes so not much of a break !

It's not for a break, it splits the route into smaller sections. If it exceeded 50km in one journey it would fall foul of domestic regulations, and need to be on tacho, shorter driving spells etc.

 

[richardderby]

it was much better when Trent operated the service, using proper long distance coaches, and a limited stopping pattern. the fares used to be superb too. High Peak don't really seem very interested, and have a chronic lack of drivers it seems.

 

[Nottingham59]

it was much better when Trent operated the service, using proper long distance coaches, and a limited stopping pattern.

Ah, but I suspect that nowadays that would be classed as a long-distance coach service, rather like the Red Arrow from Nottingham to Derby, and thus not qualify for free bus passes.

 

[DDB]

With the rail strikes and East Midlands Railway not operating Matlock through to Nottingham it isn't the best time to launch a bus service to interact with rail. However I wonder if once that all gets sorted if there is anyone else who can swoop in and offer a service between Matlock and Buxton that meets the rail services at both ends? Probably easier at the Matlock end as there is a mini bus station at the station to wait at.

 

[Leedsbusman]

With the rail strikes and East Midlands Railway not operating Matlock through to Nottingham it isn't the best time to launch a bus service to interact with rail. However I wonder if once that all gets sorted if there is anyone else who can swoop in and offer a service between Matlock and Buxton that meets the rail services at both ends? Probably easier at the Matlock end as there is a mini bus station at the station to wait at.

Is it even possible? Trains seem to arrive Matlock at xx07/8 and leave Buxton around xx58. The bus is just over an hour so wouldn’t connect at both ends. There are sometimes obvious practical constraints on connections such as this.

 

[Redmike]

From the Manchester and Stockport end there were fare issues that could have been sorted out to attract more custom. GM Wayfarer tickets have to be bought in advance so there was no day ticket that could be bought on the day for this route. High Peak's own day ticket was not valid as far as Stockport and Manchester. Would it have been that hard to work with Stagecoach Manchester to provide an add on option to the Stagecoach Dayrider allowing people from to change from local services to Transpeak for a day out in Buxton or Bakewell?

Between Matlock and Derby some ticket interavailability with Trent Barton would have been logical, especially as High Peak is 50% owned by Wellglade. Again, a little imagination and positive promotion would have made a difference.

Some of these issues can't be laid at the operator as government cuts have affected the network, especially on Sundays and Bank Holidays. There used to be an excellent network of Sunday and Bank holiday routes from the surrounding areas, now largely gone. It does seem there needs to be a wider look at services in the Peak District and I agree that some kind of overall network marketing like the new Snowdon sherpa would help, especially with something like the great value 1bws ticket. There are some stunning routes in the High Peak area, the 58, 60, 61 and 442 are as good as anything in the country and need to be marketed as such.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Ah, but I suspect that nowadays that would be classed as a long-distance coach service, rather like the Red Arrow from Nottingham to Derby, and thus not qualify for free bus passes.

I think that depends on the operator, and whether it is registered local bus or not.

 

[Deerfold]

I think that depends on the operator, and whether it is registered local bus or not.

No. The Red Arrow is registered as a local bus service. But the councils at both ends of the route have withdrawn payments for ENTCS refusing to pay the relevant share of the higher fare charged for it.

 

[danielcanning]

No. The Red Arrow is registered as a local bus service. But the councils at both ends of the route have withdrawn payments for ENTCS refusing to pay the relevant share of the higher fare charged for it.

Then if it’s registered as a local bus service then Trent Barton have to accept concessionary passes whether the the local council pays them or not. I suspect if anyone pursued Trent Barton legally over their refusal to accept passes on the Red Arrow they’d soon change their tune…

 

[gnolife]

Then if it’s registered as a local bus service then Trent Barton have to accept concessionary passes whether the the local council pays them or not. I suspect if anyone pursued Trent Barton legally over their refusal to accept passes on the Red Arrow they’d soon change their tune…

I think that it's excluded under

• services where the fare charged by the operator has a special amenity element

 

[Deerfold]

Then if it’s registered as a local bus service then Trent Barton have to accept concessionary passes whether the the local council pays them or not. I suspect if anyone pursued Trent Barton legally over their refusal to accept passes on the Red Arrow they’d soon change their tune…

It wasn't Trentbarton's decision. There's no legal obligation for them to.

There was a thread on this forum when it happened 6 years ago if you're interested in learning more about it.

Concessionary passes withdrawn in Nottingham

Apparently, Nottingham City Council has gone ahead with their plan to withdraw their funding for Concessionary passes from Trent's 'Red Arrow' coach service to Derby, as there are alternative (much slower) bus services available. There are no changes planned, yet, from the Derby end of the...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Llandudno]

With the rail strikes and East Midlands Railway not operating Matlock through to Nottingham it isn't the best time to launch a bus service to interact with rail. However I wonder if once that all gets sorted if there is anyone else who can swoop in and offer a service between Matlock and Buxton that meets the rail services at both ends? Probably easier at the Matlock end as there is a mini bus station at the station to wait at.

Hulley’s!!

They may have been better looking at this route rather the ill feted X57 Snake or the X1 between Leek and Manchester Airport which only operated for 2 days from what I recall….!

 

[Andy Pacer]

No. The Red Arrow is registered as a local bus service. But the councils at both ends of the route have withdrawn payments for ENTCS refusing to pay the relevant share of the higher fare charged for it.

Very true yes, I'd forgotten that. I recall a similar thing with the X38 in Burton.

There have also been interesting instances of travel being available in only one direction.

 

[ashworth]

Having rode the Transpeak from Buxton to Matlock a few things come to mind that might have led to it's demise. Firstly it calls round every small village picking up mostly no one from Buxton to Matlock, is it long distance fast bus or an extremely long stopping service? Secondly the same bus does the entire journey yet the timetable appears like you have to get off an swap buses at Matlock bus station and make a connection but I don't know why. You just stay sitting on the same bus.

Lots of folks got on in Buxton but virtually no one boarded except Matlock.

Whenever I have used the TransPeak there have always been quite a number of people getting on and off in Bakewell. I used it from Belper to Buxton just after 11am one day last week and it was quite well loaded south of Matlock and very few got off at Matlock with most people travelling through to Bakewell and Buxton. They were not all bus pass users either with many younger people on board.

 

[markymark2000]

Presumably to comply with drivers hours regulations.

The split will be but nothing wrong with promoting it as a through service as Stagecoach have done here.

it was much better when Trent operated the service, using proper long distance coaches, and a limited stopping pattern. the fares used to be superb too. High Peak don't really seem very interested, and have a chronic lack of drivers it seems.

High Peak, Centrebus, D&G, Chaserider. Common theme really. None are interested in running buses and growing the market. Keep plodding on and then make cuts when services aren't doing well enough despite it all being self inflicted.

Between Matlock and Derby some ticket interavailability with Trent Barton would have been logical, especially as High Peak is 50% owned by Wellglade. Again, a little imagination and positive promotion would have made a difference.

Doesn't need imagination, just some common sense. Something which is massively lacking in this industry. Same owner but no ticket acceptance. Absolutely bonkers. It would have changed things completely. Even if it was a typical Wellglade rip off add on 'ZigZag Plus Trans Peak', it could make a big difference. Instead, the industry whinges and whines that it's struggling but won't put in any effort at all to get passengers onto buses. It's no wonder we are in this mess when the industry is ran by degenerates.

There are some stunning routes in the High Peak area, the 58, 60, 61 and 442 are as good as anything in the country and need to be marketed as such.

Centrebus group as a whole don't really advertise at all. They just expect people to know about them, know the routes, know the timetables. If there is any promotion, it's normally paid for by someone else as part of a partnership (like the electric buses in Leicester will be paid for likely by Leicester Council).

 

[STINT47]

I used to catch the transpeak a lot for days out traveling from Nottingham to various parts of the peak. It used to be very handy with an hourly service and the most you paid was the price of a zig zag plus.

The rot set in with High Peak. It was goodbye to coaches, Manchester services and then Nottingham.

In it's self a change in buses at Derby wasn't the end of the world but the tickets ended my use of the service. A Zig Zag plus became invalid so I had to buy a Trent Barton ticket then a Derbyshire Wayfarer but to then they stopped accepting the wayfarer. Therefore the cost of using the service for a day out had pretty much doubled whilst a change of buses was required. It was therefore a no from me.

Although wayfarers were eventually accepted again I never returned to using the route like I did before, having found alternative ways to travel and things to do on my days off.

 

[Andy Pacer]

The split will be but nothing wrong with promoting it as a through service as Stagecoach have done here.
View attachment 116429

Agreed, there are plenty of examples out there.
It also helps if an operator publishes timetables which can show such information, rather than exports from scheduling software or TransXchange files which (rightly) imply they are seperate journeys.

 

[SSmith2009]

Centrebus group as a whole don't really advertise at all. They just expect people to know about them, know the routes, know the timetables. If there is any promotion, it's normally paid for by someone else as part of a partnership (like the electric buses in Leicester will be paid for likely by Leicester Council).

In the Leicester area Centrebus advertise with timetables at most bus stops, notices on buses for changes etc...
not sure if they still do but used to advertise on a community radio station

The 162 service was changed in April at very short notice and within three days of the new timetable starting all stops had new timetables up.

 

[markymark2000]

In the Leicester area Centrebus advertise with timetables at most bus stops, notices on buses for changes etc...
not sure if they still do but used to advertise on a community radio station

The 162 service was changed in April at very short notice and within three days of the new timetable starting all stops had new timetables up.

How much of that is down to council agreements though. Possibly the enhanced partnership and other things. Generally speaking though, Centrebus Group companies do not advertise the network and their offering. The few bits they do look smart but it's too few and far between.

 

[Andy Pacer]

How much of that is down to council agreements though. Possibly the enhanced partnership and other things. Generally speaking though, Centrebus Group companies do not advertise the network and their offering. The few bits they do look smart but it's too few and far between.

None in the Leicester area, operators having panels on bus stops is their own perogative.
Leicester City keep timetable panels up to date on key stops within their area but anything other (and into the county) is down to the operators.

 

[markymark2000]

None in the Leicester area, operators having panels on bus stops is their own perogative.
Leicester City keep timetable panels up to date on key stops within their area but anything other (and into the county) is down to the operators.

It's delegated down then like in a number of other council areas where there is an agreement in place with councils.

If it is off their own back, why isn't the rest of the group doing it and instead being ran down if Leicester is making an effort? Or is it the fact everyone else is making effort in Leicester and so if they don't put effort in, they will lose most of their customers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The split will be but nothing wrong with promoting it as a through service as Stagecoach have done here.
View attachment 116429

Now we've left the EU we really need to get rid of that tripe. Either domestic hours are OK for bus operation or they're not. The "this isn't the same bus, honest guv" thing is nonsense and pointlessly confusing to passengers.

 

[ChrisC]

I used to catch the transpeak a lot for days out traveling from Nottingham to various parts of the peak. It used to be very handy with an hourly service and the most you paid was the price of a zig zag plus.

The rot set in with High Peak. It was goodbye to coaches, Manchester services and then Nottingham.

In it's self a change in buses at Derby wasn't the end of the world but the tickets ended my use of the service. A Zig Zag plus became invalid so I had to buy a Trent Barton ticket then a Derbyshire Wayfarer but to then they stopped accepting the wayfarer. Therefore the cost of using the service for a day out had pretty much doubled whilst a change of buses was required. It was therefore a no from me.

Although wayfarers were eventually accepted again I never returned to using the route like I did before, having found alternative ways to travel and things to do on my days off.

Trent Barton’s Zig Zag Ticket at £7 or even better their Mango Cap at £6.30 don’t seem too bad value on first appearance. However, the fact that you have to pay an extra £3.50 if you travel before 9am Monday to Friday makes it poor value in comparison to similar tickets such as the Stagecoach Dayriders. Trent Barton also now have a fairly limited network of routes in both Nottinghshire and Derbyshire these days and if you happen to travel on any Kinchbus including Skylink Derby you have to pay the extra £3.50.

I’m using Trent Barton less and less these days for trips out by bus even though the bus through my village is operated by them. I tend to drive a couple of miles and park up in a nearby village on the Stagecoach Pronto Route and use their Day Rider at £7.70 with no time restrictions or drive over into Derbyshire and use a Concessionary Derbyshire Wayfarer at £6.70. I’m 66 in October so I won’t have such problems when I get my bus pass although I will sometimes pay to be able to begin my days out before 9.30am as the first bus after that time from where I live is not until 10.10am.

 

[markymark2000]

Now we've left the EU we really need to get rid of that tripe. Either domestic hours are OK for bus operation or they're not. The "this isn't the same bus, honest guv" thing is nonsense and pointlessly confusing to passengers.

100% agree

Trent Barton’s Zig Zag Ticket at £7 or even better their Mango Cap at £6.30 don’t seem too bad value on first appearance. However, the fact that you have to pay an extra £3.50 if you travel before 9am Monday to Friday makes it poor value in comparison to similar tickets such as the Stagecoach Dayriders. Trent Barton also now have a fairly limited network of routes in both Nottinghshire and Derbyshire these days and if you happen to travel on any Kinchbus including Skylink Derby you have to pay the extra £3.50.

I’m using Trent Barton less and less these days for trips out by bus even though the bus through my village is operated by them. I tend to drive a couple of miles and park up in a nearby village on the Stagecoach Pronto Route and use their Day Rider at £7.70 with no time restrictions or drive over into Derbyshire and use a Concessionary Derbyshire Wayfarer at £6.70. I’m 66 in October so I won’t have such problems when I get my bus pass although I will sometimes pay to be able to begin my days out before 9.30am as the first bus after that time from where I live is not until 10.10am.

I was shocked at the fare increase to include Kinchbus. And they are one of only a few places that have 'peak' fares anymore. So outdated in my opinion.