NR Crewe "Signalling Failure" - affects 2 tocs but not the third one?! (25/03)

[185]

For the record, I'm not a conspiracy theorist flat earther... however this morning something strange is going on. Again, about the fourth time now.

The line via Wilmslow is seemingly blocked for Avanti Pendolinos which are diverted via Macclesfield, and TfW's Cardiff DMUs are being spun at Crewe and sent back south.

Bizarrely... It seems Northern's units have magical powers and perhaps these CAF trains bounce so much they don't even need track circuits. They just set flaps to 5°, apply take off thrust, rotate and fly over the problem.

In light of ambiguous answers given previously by Network Rail and TfW / Avanti does anyone know what they're actually doing? As usual, the information put out doesn't explain why A & B can't run but C can.

Cheers

 

[zwk500]

Pure speculation - but is it single line working and so they've decided to only run Northern services over that stretch to manage capacity?

 

[jfollows]

No, it's not single line working, but - and this is my speculation - there may be a lot of talking trains past red signals which it's only realistically possible to do with a thinned out service.

 

[185]

Pure speculation - but is it single line working and so they've decided to only run Northern services over that stretch to manage capacity?

Thought that, but noticed the last two through in both directions have all been on the right side throughout, nothing running bang road.

No, it's not single line working, but - and this is my speculation - there may be a lot of talking trains past red signals which it's only realistically possible to do with a thinned out service.

Could be this, which would explain why running stoppers is the only option.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Seems like a pragmatic solution. Avanti has an alternative route into Manchester Picc (via Macclesfield) and TfW customers for stations beyond Crewe towards Manchester can always transfer onto the Northern stoppers. Presume any Avanti customers for Wilmslow will now need to interchange at Stockport (or Crewe).

 

[68000]

25kv short circuited through signal gantry/bonds and fried everything in the equipment room

 

[JN114]

The issue is a Crewe station itself, and has severely restricted what platforms are available to trains.

Shrewsbury line can only reach platforms 11 and 12

Platforms 7 and 8 are unavailable entirely.

Platforms 1 to 6 are restricted at the South end, access only to/from the Fast or Alsager lines.

In practice all trains having to use the fast lines between Stafford and Crewe.

North end is all largely unaffected.

As such TfW have no route across Crewe to get from Shrewsbury to Manchester, so are terminating Crewe.

Avanti have been required to thin their services out due to lack of available platforms, hence diverting via Macclesfield.

 

[Class 170101]

Platform 10 also appears to be out of Use currently according to Open Train Times Signalling Diagram.

 

[jfollows]

Platform 10 also appears to be out of Use currently according to Open Train Times Signalling Diagram.

I think platform 10 has been out of use for some while now because of a set of defective points.

 

[Bow Fell]

It was a complete loss of signalling, a rather nasty one too at Crewe South Junction so the 2 agreed contingency plans were implemented. Both of which didn’t affect Northern as they are in and out of Platform 1.

 

[FuzzyDuck]

I think platform 10 has been out of use for some while now because of a set of defective points.

Been out of action around 6 months I'd estimate.

 

[zwk500]

Been out of action around 6 months I'd estimate.

It's been at least 9, probably 10 or 11.

 

[sonic2009]

When did this happen? Was it this morning?

 

[Horizon22]

It is probably an agreed contingency plan with all of the TOCs involved.

 

[M60lad]

Still ongoing and according to National Rail and it states the following:

A fault with the signalling system between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly means trains running between these stations will be cancelled or terminated at and started back from Crewe. Wilmslow, Stockport and Manchester Piccadilly will not be served.

Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Only affecting Transport for Wales services

 

[AndrewE]

No, it's not single line working, but - and this is my speculation - there may be a lot of talking trains past red signals which it's only realistically possible to do with a thinned out service.

Still ongoing and according to National Rail and it states the following:

A fault with the signalling system between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly means trains running between these stations will be cancelled or terminated at and started back from Crewe. Wilmslow, Stockport and Manchester Piccadilly will not be served.

Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Only affecting Transport for Wales services

There are no others shown in RTT (apart from the locals) - so see post 4, quoted above. Either none were planned, or all have been diverted off the line. (Next week on Sunday the only other trains besides the Cardiffs are the Euston-Manchesters starting at 1411)

 

[M60lad]

Do we know how long this is going to take to fix? I notice its still ongoing this morning

 

[185]

Been in the papers (Manchester Evening News) all TfW services spinning at Crewe on platform 8. There were reasons given yesterday as a 'power supply problem' and 'late arrival of an inbound service'.

Network Rail told the press today that "it's a signalling systems fault between Crewe and Manchester" ...which only serves to cause the public to look blankly at the Pendos and Northern stoppers running faultlessly up that line.

If it is just a fault with the points at Crewe station, I wonder why they can't just be straightforward and say it.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

This is the relevant "Manchester Evening News" article as mentioned by @185 ...

Train disruption as services between Manchester Piccadilly and Crewe cancelled

“Disruption is expected until the end of the day"

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

Extract:-

Network Rail issued a similar warning on its website. The train provider said: “Due to a fault with the signalling system between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly, Transport for Wales services will be revised to start / terminate at Crewe. Disruption is expected until the end of the day."

Can only find a Crewe-related linked story on the National Rail (rather than Network Rail) website, link here...

Find details of current incidents | National Rail

A portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

Extract:-

TOC(s) affected

Transport for Wales;

Description

Due to a fault with the signalling system between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly, Transport for Wales services will be revised to start / terminate at Crewe.

Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice:

Stations between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly will not be served.

 

[Topological]

I saw that this was ongoing. It does help slightly with the TfW unit shortages having them turning at Crewe. It could almost be a solution for a while to help get the 175s back into service and help one of the routes that is missing its 150.

Is it likely that the problem will continue?

 

[Bow Fell]

Been in the papers (Manchester Evening News) all TfW services spinning at Crewe on platform 8. There were reasons given yesterday as a 'power supply problem' and 'late arrival of an inbound service'.

Network Rail told the press today that "it's a signalling systems fault between Crewe and Manchester" ...which only serves to cause the public to look blankly at the Pendos and Northern stoppers running faultlessly up that line.

If it is just a fault with the points at Crewe station, I wonder why they can't just be straightforward and say it.

It was a rather nasty power supply issue, smoke coming from location cabinets, exploded relays, burn damage to equipment, TPWS equipment blown, signal heads need replacing. This has cause the loss of detection on various points.

Repairs have taken place but more and more damage is being found that was never expected.

I said say Weds/Thurs for a normal service.

 

[sd0733]

Do we know how long this is going to take to fix? I notice its still ongoing this morning

All TFWs cancelled tomorrow already.

Not sure how accurate it Is but have heard today that there's likely to be no service until Sunday with services turning at Crewe until Friday then at Nantwich/diverted via Chester on Saturday as a block is required.

Time will tell how correct that is but doesn't look too promising so far.

 

[craigybagel]

Never underestimate the damage a humble pigeon can cause.....

 

[Class 170101]

Never underestimate the damage a humble pigeon can cause.....

Though one would hope the humble pigeon wouldn't be able to cause so much damage.

 

[zwk500]

Though one would hope the humble pigeon wouldn't be able to cause so much damage.

It doesn't matter how big it is, if it hits the wrong thing at a high enough speed.

 

[craigybagel]

Though one would hope the humble pigeon wouldn't be able to cause so much damage.

I suspect the pigeon in question won't be able to damage anything else in future....

 

[M60lad]

Will any other TOCs be affected at weekend by the possible block that is needed or is it just TFW?

 

[Topological]

Where exactly was the problem?

I am on the Northern stopper having had to get off the TfW, but haven't noticed any particular issue with this train doing any part of the line slower than it should.

 

[Statto]

Delete post

 

[craigybagel]

Where exactly was the problem?

I am on the Northern stopper having had to get off the TfW, but haven't noticed any particular issue with this train doing any part of the line slower than it should.

Crewe South Junction. There's currently no access from the Shrewsbury line towards platforms 5 & 6, which is necessary to run through to Manchester. Northern services running in and out of Platform 1 aren't affected.