NSE Westbury-London Paddington?

TheWalrus

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2008
Messages
1,843
Location
Exeter
Good morning
I have come across a window label for a Westbury to London Paddington service with the NSE logo on it! As far as I was aware NSE didn’t run west of Bedwyn. I have searched online and cannot find any information on this service at all. Does anyone on here have any recollection or information on this service i.e. times and years it operated? What rolling stock was used?
many thanks
Ryan
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

nlogax

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
3,336
Location
London & Scotland
Good morning
I have come across a window label for a Westbury to London Paddington service with the NSE logo on it! As far as I was aware NSE didn’t run west of Bedwyn. I have searched online and cannot find any information on this service at all. Does anyone on here have any recollection or information on this service i.e. times and years it operated? What rolling stock was used?
many thanks
Ryan

While the NSE area officially stopped at Bedwyn, history suggests there were regular Westbury <> Paddington services, for instance,

http://www.hondawanderer.com/50025_Waltham_St_Lawrence_1989.htm

50025 Invincible passes Waltham St Lawrence on 2 June 1989 with the 1F23 06:46 Westbury to Paddington Network SouthEast service. Two months after this picture was taken, Invincible didn't quite live up to its name, when it was derailed at high speed by an object placed on the line at West Ealing. The damage to the locomotive was so extensive that it was subsequently withdrawn. This was the last occasion on which I saw it. Not quite the last ever picture, as I saw it returning from Paddington a little later. However, that picture was slightly compromised by a HST getting in the way at the crucial moment!​

Whether these were 'official' NSE services or IC services serviced with NSE stock it's hard to say without having an NSE West of England timetable to hand (anyone?)
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
23,238
Location
Redcar
Whether these were 'official' NSE services or IC services serviced with NSE stock it's hard to say without having an NSE West of England timetable to hand (anyone?)
My May to October 1989 GBTT shows it as being a 'Network Express' service which has first class and a 'trolley service of cold snacks and hot and cold drinks available to all customers'.
 

HamworthyGoods

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2019
Messages
1,206
Network SouthEast ran certain services out of the “Network” area on behalf of other other sectors.

Ones which spring to mind are the Westbury to London and the Plymouth to Exeter local in the morning using a Waterloo set
 

Gloster

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
1,555
Location
Up the creek
If I remember correctly, around 1984 there was a loco-hauled evening Paddington-Bedwyn (or possibly Pewsey) which continued to Westbury. It then ran empty to Malaga Vale (Bristol) via a run round in Taunton.
 

JonathanH

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
7,362
There was an up service in the morning and a down train at 1747 from Paddington to Westbury. Bedwyn has never had the facility to run around a locomotive hauled train so it had to go further west. It is as simple as that.

The extension to Westbury ended once Turbos had taken over in 1992 although I think there was a short period when Turbos ran through.

I think the Westbury was the last NSE LHCS working out of Paddington.


The last loco hauled Network SouthEast services out of Paddington ran on 3 July 1992. To commemorate the passing of an area, 47701 Old Oak Common Traction & Rolling Stock Depot & 47423 were booked to work the 1K68 17:48 Paddington to Westbury, with a fourteen coach rake and special headboard. The train is pictured arriving at Bedwyn in appropriately funereal weather. This train would normally be worked by a DMU and would terminate here. The headboard reads: 'The Westbury. Last loco hauled service from Paddington. 3 July 1992'.

Also of note is that this path was I think the only one NSE and later Thames Trains had in the high peak that was non-stop down the main line from Paddington to Reading.
 
Last edited:

Clarence Yard

Established Member
Joined
18 Dec 2014
Messages
1,438
The Westbury loco hauled was an NSE service run on behalf of NSE.

All the arrangements for that last run had a lot to do with Steve Vial and Annette Pickwell, both on the technical staff at OOC. 47423 was a good, if very well worn, loco at this time.
 

The exile

Member
Joined
31 Mar 2010
Messages
81
Location
Somerset
Good morning
I have come across a window label for a Westbury to London Paddington service with the NSE logo on it! As far as I was aware NSE didn’t run west of Bedwyn. I have searched online and cannot find any information on this service at all. Does anyone on here have any recollection or information on this service i.e. times and years it operated? What rolling stock was used?
many thanks
Ryan
There was an up service in the morning and a down train at 1747 from Paddington to Westbury. Bedwyn has never had the facility to run around a locomotive hauled train so it had to go further west. It is as simple as that.

The extension to Westbury ended once Turbos had taken over in 1992 although I think there was a short period when Turbos ran through.

I think the Westbury was the last NSE LHCS working out of Paddington.




Also of note is that this path was I think the only one NSE and later Thames Trains had in the high peak that was non-stop down the main line from Paddington to Reading.
Possibly uniquely among regular outer suburban termini on main lines, Bedwyn was not served by long distance trains, so "the Westbury" formed the only opportunity to travel between the upper Kennet valley stations and the West without doubling back via Newbury. I doubt whether that many people ever used it for that purpose - I certainly don't remember crowds disgorging at Westbury whenever I used it.
 

Cowley

Established Member
Associate Staff
General Discussion
Railtours & Preservation
Modelling & Games
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
10,302
Location
Devon
The Westbury loco hauled was an NSE service run on behalf of NSE.

All the arrangements for that last run had a lot to do with Steve Vial and Annette Pickwell, both on the technical staff at OOC. 47423 was a good, if very well worn, loco at this time.

47423 ah yes. Still in banger blue from what I remember?
 

JonathanH

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
7,362
47423 was a good, if very well worn, loco at this time.
The 47s that came from Tinsley when NSE were trying to make cost savings certainly looked battered, as did some of the 47/7s that didn't get NSE colours. They certainly had some interesting unofficial names (SCEPTRE, DIBATAG, SILURIAN, GALTEE MORE, ORIBI). I recall looking them up in a dictionary, those times being before the internet age.

The replacement of the 47+coaches services with Turbos seemed to be pretty quick (as it needed to be with the works to remodel Paddington) - I think a little under three months from April 1992 to July 1992 - certainly compared to the replacement of the DMUs (some of which also got unofficial names of a different nature) on the Thames routes which seems to have taken over a year (and another three months on the North Downs).
 
Last edited:

Fast Track

Member
Joined
19 May 2019
Messages
57
Well that’s jogged my memory. I remember often catching the evening Westbury train Paddington to Kintbury and thinking it was a bit of a mystery such a large train stopping at Kintbury and knew nothing about Westbury. However, often chose to wait for the following Plymouth 125 to join the bad company in the wonderfully vibrant and packed buffet car standing all the way to Newbury! There was a set of points somewhere on the way to Reading when all the regulars knew to hold on tightly to their drinks?
 

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
5,989
NSE Mk 1 loco hauled sets, many of which were for peak hours only, also were used on some Inter-City routes as reliefs etc. I took on a number of occasions in the late 1980s a Sunday evening service from Liverpool to Euston which was formed of one of the Northampton sets. It was still in blue/grey livery, just with small NSE logos, so didn't look at all out of place. The First Class was a side corridor, and as the £1 weekend supplement was in force, it was a pleasant way to travel. Presumably after arrival at Euston it had to ecs back to Northampton for the next morning.
 

PG

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
1,720
Location
at the end of the high and low roads
There was an up service in the morning and a down train at 1747 from Paddington to Westbury. Bedwyn has never had the facility to run around a locomotive hauled train so it had to go further west. It is as simple as that.

The extension to Westbury ended once Turbos had taken over in 1992 although I think there was a short period when Turbos ran through.

I think the Westbury was the last NSE LHCS working out of Paddington.
Unless I'm mistaken this NSE peak working would have also been the last LHCS working at Westbury.

The Cardiff - Portsmouth services has been Sprinterised in 1988 and the Bristol - Weymouth was in the hands of 1st generation DMUs. All other Paddington services were of course HSTs.
 
Last edited:

JonathanH

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
7,362
Not at all, plenty of later LHCS at Westbury after 1992.

Wales & West operated locomotive hauled trains from Bristol to Weymouth in the late 1990s. Wessex Trains ran a Fridays only working from Brighton to Bristol with class 31s in the early 2000s. InterCity GW / FGW ran LHCS services until 2002 on the mainline which may have stopped at Westbury.
 
Last edited:

PG

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
1,720
Location
at the end of the high and low roads
Not at all, plenty of later LHCS at Westbury after 1992.

Wales & West operated locomotive hauled trains from Bristol to Weymouth in the late 1990s. Wessex Trains ran a Fridays only working from Brighton to Bristol with class 31s in the early 2000s. InterCity GW / FGW ran LHCS services until 2002 on the mainline which may have stopped at Westbury.
My apologies for indeed being much mistaken :oops:
 

Sprinter107

Member
Joined
26 Mar 2019
Messages
612
NSE Mk 1 loco hauled sets, many of which were for peak hours only, also were used on some Inter-City routes as reliefs etc. I took on a number of occasions in the late 1980s a Sunday evening service from Liverpool to Euston which was formed of one of the Northampton sets. It was still in blue/grey livery, just with small NSE logos, so didn't look at all out of place. The First Class was a side corridor, and as the £1 weekend supplement was in force, it was a pleasant way to travel. Presumably after arrival at Euston it had to ecs back to Northampton for the next morning.
Yes, there was definitely a Thames loco hauled NSE set that worked an afternoon Hereford to Paddington on a Sunday afternoon. Believe there was a rake of NSE Mark 1s diagrammed for the Cambrian on a Saturday, i remember seeing it at New Street, behined a class 37.
 

Clarence Yard

Established Member
Joined
18 Dec 2014
Messages
1,438
The 47s that came from Tinsley when NSE were trying to make cost savings certainly looked battered, as did some of the 47/7s that didn't get NSE colours. They certainly had some interesting unofficial names (SCEPTRE, DIBATAG, SILURIAN, GALTEE MORE, ORIBI). I recall looking them up in a dictionary, those times being before the internet age.

The replacement of the 47+coaches services with Turbos seemed to be pretty quick (as it needed to be with the works to remodel Paddington) - I think a little under three months from April 1992 to July 1992 - certainly compared to the replacement of the DMUs (some of which also got unofficial names of a different nature) on the Thames routes which seems to have taken over a year (and another three months on the North Downs).

Yes, NSE HQ were wrapping up the Level 5 budget for locos and made the decision to move away from 50’s so the shuffle round took place and OOC got landed with the well worn SP 47/4’s from TI. They were not going to get any L5 repairs so they were laid aside when major repairs were required.

47423 was a particular favourite of mine from my ECML days and was actually the penultimate loco out of the shed at FP on the night it closed. I remember especially going into it in the servicing shed at OOC on it’s arrival from TI and seeing a (isolated) Spanner 3 boiler in it - they were getting a bit rare by then, most having been removed.

The Chiltern 3 car Turbo units had to come over and help with the LHCS replacement programme as time was tight for getting rid of the locos and stock, with most of the latter being gradually sold off for preservation.
 

HamworthyGoods

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2019
Messages
1,206
Interesting, did NSE services ever have a buffet car?

Thames Line services had trolleys.

The only Loco-Hauled sets with actual Buffets were mk1 RMBs in the Liverpool Street to King’s Lynn sets.

Waterloo to Exeter sets had mk2c TSO(T)s in the middle of the set (usually formed 3xTSO, 1xBFK, 1xTSO(T), 1xBFK, 3xTSO. None of the TSO(T)s were allocated to Thames Line.

The other lines with Buffet Cars were on EMU routes.

Sussex Coast - 4BIG units provided buffets between London and Brighton, Eastbourne, Littlehampton and Bognor

South Western - 4BEP units provided buffets between London and Portsmouth and initially 4REP and latterly 5WES units provided buffets between London and Bournemouth
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
5,757
Interesting, did NSE services ever have a buffet car?
They had a small number of Mark 1 RMBs, although when I say small, I think we're talking VERY small. Think they were mainly used on runs out to Ely/Cambridge rather than out of Paddington, though. I think there might have been TSOTs on the Waterloo/Paddington services, if those count.
 

JonathanH

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
7,362
They had a small number of Mark 1 RMBs, although when I say small, I think we're talking VERY small. Think they were mainly used on runs out to Ely/Cambridge rather than out of Paddington, though. I think there might have been TSOTs on the Waterloo/Paddington services, if those count.
Stretching things a little, the middle car of a 166, as built, is effectively a MS(T), given the power socket for a trolley in the part of the vehicle with the tables. I don't know whether it was ever used as such and there was never a 'counter' fitted. I think the (T) modification on the Waterloo-Exeter Mark 2c TSO(T) was pretty much just the removal of one bay of seats and conversion of the adjacent toilet into a cupboard.

The RMBs used on Liverpool Street to Kings Lynn services didn't move to Old Oak Common for Thames line services when the rest of the stock did after withdrawal of through trains.
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
5,757
Stretching things a little, the middle car of a 166, as built, is effectively a MS(T), given the power socket for a trolley in the part of the vehicle with the tables. I don't know whether it was ever used as such and there was never a 'counter' fitted. I think the (T) modification on the Waterloo-Exeter Mark 2c TSO(T) was pretty much just the removal of one bay of seats and conversion of the adjacent toilet into a cupboard.

The RMBs used on Liverpool Street to Kings Lynn services didn't move to Old Oak Common for Thames line services when the rest of the stock did after withdrawal of through trains.
Certainly the 166 had provision for trolley storage, and there was a nice (small) area of 2+2 table seating, as you say, but I never saw that area specifically used for catering purposes. Shame, as it could have worked quite well. I'm of the opinion that all the standard class seating in the units should have had that layout, given the intention of using them on longer services, but it might have caused capacity problems.
 

Grumpy

Member
Joined
8 Nov 2010
Messages
752
Am I right that for many years these were the only trains at Pewsey? It was running back in the early 70s (somewhere I have a photo of the down train with a Warship at Paddington...).
I used to commute from Newbury to Paddington and back on this train in the early/mid 1970s. Mk1 coaches hauled by class 52. First class corridor compartment with deep cushioned seating and steam heating. Delightful way to travel. In the summer timetable the stock used to run ecs from Westbury to Cardiff on Friday evenings so as to be available for summer Saturday holiday trains.
With regard to Pewsey I don't have a timetable handy but can recall one early evening journey from Taunton to Newbury, approx. 1972, that called there
 

Sprinter107

Member
Joined
26 Mar 2019
Messages
612
Am I right that for many years these were the only trains at Pewsey? It was running back in the early 70s (somewhere I have a photo of the down train with a Warship at Paddington...).
Departures From Pewsey May 77 - May 78

07.03 SX Paddington from Westbury
08.15 SX Paddington from Newton Abbot
09.02 SO Paddington from Plymouth
11.48 Paddington from Paignton
19.40 Paddington from Penzance


Summer Sats 11.13 instead of 11.48
18.23
19.58 instead of 19.40
 

Sad Sprinter

Member
Joined
5 Jun 2017
Messages
929
Location
Way on down South London town
I've got the impression that Network South East had a lot of little services that were rare and unadvirtised. I'm sure the Hondawonderer site has a photograph of a Thames Turbo running through Droitwich on a Paddington to New Street via Kidderminster run or something like that.
 

JonathanH

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
7,362
I've got the impression that Network South East had a lot of little services that were rare and unadvirtised. I'm sure the Hondawonderer site has a photograph of a Thames Turbo running through Droitwich on a Paddington to New Street via Kidderminster run or something like that.
I've written about that before. That was a swap to get a unit with greater capacity into Birmingham and a sprinter on the Cotswold line. It may also have been before 2-car 165s were able to run the Cotswold 'halts' train due to platform lengths.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-direct-service-to-birmingham.152207/page-2#post-3094612

What this is exhibiting is essentially NSE and Regional Railways swapping units to increase capacity where it was needed. It also happened around Exeter where a 153 worked to Honiton and a 159 went to Paignton in the evening peak, but that, of course, is not why NSE went to Westbury, which has a lot more to do with running round the diesel locomotive on a rake of coaches.

As discussed in the May 2021 timetable thread, it does appear that 'NSE' are running to Westbury again, as both of these look like Kennet Valley locals extended to Westbury,

1K01 0454 Westbury to London Paddington
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G59443/2021-05-27/detailed

1J32 2222 London Paddington to Westbury
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G80679/2021-05-27/detailed
 
Last edited:

HamworthyGoods

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2019
Messages
1,206
As discussed in the May 2021 timetable thread, it does appear that 'NSE' are running to Westbury again, as both of these look like Kennet Valley locals extended to Westbury,

This has happened since the December 2019 timetable change with the Up and Down Frome which serve the same Kennet Valley Local stations as the above Westbury trains. Indeed the 18.07 ex Paddington runs in a completely standard Kennet local path to Bedwyn.
 

Top