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Off Peak restrictions from North Wales stations to London

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4 Jul 2012
Can someone help, new to this

Why do so some train websites such as London Midland, RedSpottedHanky show off peak return fares starting on a Sunday night from Flint, Heswall etc arriving Monday before 9am in London as valid whilst Virgin, National Rail do not.

It shows an off peak return starting in Flint on a Sunday night with a long break and arriving London 7.28 for £74.20

Similiar route for Heswal leaving 10.35 to London starting Sunday night arriving London 8.07. These also apply to Upton etc

Im travelling from London are these fares valid as they only show on some websites and not others.

If you are travelling back from Flint, Heswall on your return journey can you start the journey at Shotton or Chester.

Seen some posts on this but still a bit unsure.

Any help would be appreciated.

Its very confusing:cry::cry:
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RailUK Forums


Forum Staff
Staff Member
6 Jun 2005
Different booking engines interpret rules differently. In some cases one of the booking engines is making a mistake. Also the rules on overnight breaks of journey did change a few months ago.

Overnight BOJ does crop up every so often on here, and more so given the recent changes and confusion.

These posts may assist:

This was covered some time ago in the thread "Revised NRCOC" post #78 is particularly useful- I quote:
op said "I asked a question of ATOC in relation to overnight break of journey, in that the briefing document was not very clear and an example it gave contradicted what it said earlier. The response from ATOC is:
ATOC said:
With regard to the specific question you have asked, the normal validity of the(Super) Off-Peak Single or outward portion of these Returns, will expire at 04:29 in the early morning after the start date shown on the ticket. This will in practice cover the vast majority of journeys, which is why we are continuing to state the normal validity as one day. In the few cases where the journey cannot be completed in this time, as an easement to that normal one day validity, customers are allowed to continue their journey on a second day, and must then complete that journey by 04:29 in the morning after this second day. However, time restrictions as shown in the restriction code will now apply on both days. This is a change from the current easement, which allows customers to break overnight and use the first train of the next day (even where this would normally be a restricted peak hour service)."
If you want all the debate the detail is there, my understanding from the thread is that staff q&a were sent out 9/11/11 to confirm.

It would be good if someone who knows could give us an official reference to quote if we are challenged.
Hope this helps

If you make a booking on a site, are given an itinerary, and you stick precisely to that itinerary, I would expect the ticket to be honoured. So far I've not seen any evidence of TOCs or ATOC trying to get out of any bookings. Admittedly a small number of guards have attempted to claim that bookings are void if the websites make a mistake, but providing the passenger sticks exactly to the itinerary (and bring the itinerary and/or reservations, as applicable on your journey) then in all known disputes I've heard of, the customer has been refunded.

If a website is offering an itinerary and you book it, it should be valid & honoured.

However some may argue that if an itinerary is offered, you are unsure about it and make enquiries and determine it was a mistake, but book it anyway your position may be weakened.

Usually, where a mistake is highlighted on this site, it is fixed soon after (but sometimes it can take a while depending on the nature of the problem).


4 Jul 2012
Thanks for the information.

Its a bit of a mess but if an approved seller is offering the ticket then agree with your view that it must be valid.

Quite possibly the opposite might be said that some websits interpret the rules in their favour.

Was just windering why



Emeritus Moderator
4 Feb 2010
Those tickets that you have mentioned have break of journey restrictions on the outward portion, but not on the return portion.

I agree with the view that if you book a ticket with an accompanying itinerary, the itinerary would have to be honoured. However please note that it is a hot potato if you travel at an invalid time by virtue of an itinerary, but break your journey along the way (finish early, start short, etc). There is no concensus as to whether this then invalidates your ticket as you are no longer travelling according to the itinerary, which is the only thing that validates your journey at an otherwise invalid time.
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