Office Shut No Money on Card

[Stonesourscotty]

Hi i traveled from Wigan NW to Poulton LF Last night and the Ticket office was shut but the Card only Machines where working but i had no money on my card just £££Cash so if they came round on the train what is the worst that could happen to me baring in mind my option of payment wasn't available to me

 

[ainsworth74]

In my opinion, as you had a valid means to pay and factors outside your control made it so you couldn't pay prior to travel (booking office closed, no machines accepting cash) you should have been offered the full range of tickets for the journey you were making.

 

[hidden]

You could pay for your ticket with cash. Case closed?

 

[Stonesourscotty]

on the train full selection of tickets?

 

[ainsworth74]

That would be your first opportunity to pay so I would say yes the full range on board.

 

[dzug2]

So how did you actually pay?

Or was it a free ride......

 

[185143]

So how did you actually pay?

Or was it a free ride......

that's the impression I got too.

 

[yorkie]

You're entitled to pay with cash at the first opportunity.

If the Guard didn't come round, and the ticket office at Poulton le Flyde was closed, I wonder what would happen if you write to Northern requesting an invoice?

 

[CyrusWuff]

You're entitled to pay with cash at the first opportunity.

If the Guard didn't come round, and the ticket office at Poulton le Flyde was closed, I wonder what would happen if you write to Northern requesting an invoice?

Being cynical, I'd suggest they'd receive a "Failure to Pay" Notice...

 

[Harpers Tate]

I just had a couple of Northern days out using their £10 offer rover tickets. So I travelled a fair bit. The proportion of freetrain(TM)* services was, I suspect, far higher than might be explained by either broken or missing ticket machines onboard, or the guard being fully occupied doing something more essential.

*No barrier at either end, no onboard check

 

[ASharpe]

I've tweeted Northern about being unable to purchase a ticket between Halifax and Bradford. They didn't get back to me about it.

@northernrailorg ticket machine at HFX not working and no staff at BDI, how should I pay my fare?

@aaronsharpe Hi Aaron, could you use the self service machine at Bradford?

@northernrailorg I looked but it only sold tickets from Bradford. Left the station now.

 

[Merseysider]

I've tweeted Northern about being unable to purchase a ticket between Halifax and Bradford. They didn't get back to me about it.

I suppose if there was an RPI at Bradford (or if you really wanted to pay for your journey) they would expect you to buy a Bradford - Halifax ticket so the same fare is paid even though the ticket would be the wrong way around.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose if there was an RPI at Bradford (or if you really wanted to pay for your journey) they would expect you to buy a Bradford - Halifax ticket so the same fare is paid even though the ticket would be the wrong way around.

As this is not always the same (there do exist asymmetric fares, particularly in the SE but I have no idea if Northern have any or not, nor would the average passenger), and that ticket would not actually be valid for the journey made, I can't see why they would expect that.

Southern's ticket machines offer remote issue, in that case that may be a reasonable expectation.

Neil

 

[Merseysider]

As this is not always the same (there do exist asymmetric fares, particularly in the SE but I have no idea if Northern have any or not, nor would the average passenger), and that ticket would not actually be valid for the journey made, I can't see why they would expect that.

Southern's ticket machines offer remote issue, in that case that may be a reasonable expectation.

Neil

If it were buy a reverse ticket or walk away without paying, I know which Northern would prefer, and I know which the customer passenger would prefer.

This isn't in Southernland though so remote issue is a red herring.

The OP still hasn't confirmed whether they will pay for the journey, but equally Northern don't seem too interested

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it were buy a reverse ticket or walk away without paying, I know which Northern would prefer, and I know which the customer passenger would prefer.

Would Northern *actually* prefer it?

So, let's say (maybe one of our resident RPIs would confirm) if I got on at an unstaffed station with no/broken ticket machine, and on arrival I bought a wrong-direction ticket from a platform TVM and proceeded to show it at the barrier, would this definitely be accepted? I have my doubts, so I wouldn't do it unless I had first asked the RPIs if it would be accepted.

It would be similarly complicated if the OP wanted a return, as a reverse return is not the same thing, as the outward is not valid after the return has been used.

This isn't in Southernland though so remote issue is a red herring.

That it isn't available isn't a red herring. The OP could not purchase the ticket they required, as no means was provided to do so.

Neil

 

[Agent_c]

Would Northern *actually* prefer it?

So, let's say (maybe one of our resident RPIs would confirm) if I got on at an unstaffed station with no/broken ticket machine, and on arrival I bought a wrong-direction ticket from a platform TVM and proceeded to show it at the barrier, would this definitely be accepted? I have my doubts, so I wouldn't do it unless I had first asked the RPIs if it would be accepted.

It would be similarly complicated if the OP wanted a return, as a reverse return is not the same thing, as the outward is not valid after the return has been used.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if you "Use" the Return leg of a ticket first, doesn't the "Outward" portion become invalid?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Correct me if I am wrong, but if you "Use" the Return leg of a ticket first, doesn't the "Outward" portion become invalid?

Isn't that exactly what I said as being the reason why a "reverse" return would not be an appropriate purchase?

Neil

 

[Merseysider]

Would Northern *actually* prefer it?

I think Northern would prefer to get some revenue rather than none at all!

Would you advocate walking away without paying anything at all?

 

[plymothian]

I tend to look at it like this, if the station is open (non barriered) with a TVM and someone was to buy a single back instead of a 'reverse' return, then as day returns are usually only a few pence difference, the company have lost pence on a return but gained pounds on no fare at all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think Northern would prefer to get some revenue rather than none at all!

Would you advocate walking away without paying anything at all?

If there was not any means of purchasing the *correct* ticket (or indeed one in any way valid for the journey made) whatsoever, yes. The OP contacted Northern who could perhaps have arranged a means or told him to buy a "wrong direction" ticket, but failed to do so. I would not buy a "wrong direction" ticket without being specifically instructed to do so.

I'd be more likely to send a cheque to customer services than to buy a wrong direction ticket. Or indeed if I was travelling back as well, and both legs were off-peak, just buy a single on the way back as another poster had noted, which off-peak would usually deprive the TOC of the princely sum of £0.10 (or £0.05 if Railcard discounted).

Neil

 

[Agent_c]

Isn't that exactly what I said as being the reason why a "reverse" return would not be an appropriate purchase?

Neil

Yes, I just wanted to be a bit more explicit.

 

[PeterY]

You're entitled to pay with cash at the first opportunity.

If the Guard didn't come round, and the ticket office at Poulton le Flyde was closed, I wonder what would happen if you write to Northern requesting an invoice?

Has anyone ever been honest enough to request an invoice?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Has anyone ever been honest enough to request an invoice?

If the railway has *genuinely* failed to provide *any* means to pay for the journey using an accepted payment method, I think it's not unreasonable at all that the passenger should get it free.

A solution is, as I noted above, to allow remote issue from TVMs and make it clear in publicity this is expected to be used in this sort of situation (having inspectors just outside the door once or twice might reinforce the point).

Neil

 

[rmt4ever]

Passengers can only do so much. If northern are too tight to install multiple card&cash TVMs at EVERY station, and service them regularly, then good luck to anyone getting a free ride. If they can't be arsed to make the effort, why should the passenger ?

 

[Starmill]

Being cynical, I'd suggest they'd receive a "Failure to Pay" Notice...

I don't think I've heard of a case where Northern have issued one of those to passengers who have joined a train where there wasn't an opportunity to pay with cash. Northern have a very small number of stations where an opportunity to use cash and cards is only ever a machine (Saltaire is the only one I can immediately think of, though Garforth is a good example for most of the day when the ticket office is closed), which results in the most places, they are only issuing them to people who've walked past an open ticket office.

 

[kieron]

So, let's say (maybe one of our resident RPIs would confirm) if I got on at an unstaffed station with no/broken ticket machine, and on arrival I bought a wrong-direction ticket from a platform TVM and proceeded to show it at the barrier, would this definitely be accepted?

There are no barriers at Poulton-le-Fylde, so the situation you have described does not arise.

I should think it would be obvious that the first thing to do on arrival at a staffed station when you don't have a valid ticket and don't know the normal procedures would be to ask someone.

 

[Deerfold]

There are no barriers at Poulton-le-Fylde, so the situation you have described does not arise.

I should think it would be obvious that the first thing to do on arrival at a staffed station when you don't have a valid ticket and don't know the normal procedures would be to ask someone.

Poulton Le Fylde is staffed until 1930 - we don't know when the OP travelled but they described it as "last night".

 

[kieron]

Poulton Le Fylde is staffed until 1930 - we don't know when the OP travelled but they described it as "last night".

We don't. Stonesourscotty did say the ticket office was shut, though. If the ticket office in Wigan closed at 18:45 that evening (as NRE claim it should), it would not have been possible to leave Wigan after then by train and reach Poulton before 19:30.

Now I think of it, someone in that situation could always pop across the road to Wallgate station, where the ticket office is supposed to be open later. You don't have to, of course.

 

[Deerfold]

We don't. Stonesourscotty did say the ticket office was shut, though. If the ticket office in Wigan closed at 18:45 that evening (as NRE claim it should), it would not have been possible to leave Wigan after then by train and reach Poulton before 19:30.

So who are you recommending they ask?

 

[kieron]

No-one. See post #26 for details.