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On train ticket check.... (and St Pancras)

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GardenRail

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Waiting for the 2002hr from St Pancras to Sheffield yesterday, there was the usual rush right up to platform 2a, 9 minutes before departure,for a 5 car train to Sheffield (appalling), after all tickets were checked via the barrier or staff at the gates.

The question. Why then, given that you cannot board the train without going through the barriers, does the guard then come and do a full ticket check, of all previously checked tickets on the platform?

As an aside, what an abysmal station St Pancras is. Not for for purpose.
 
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tramdan

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One reason, is that not all ticket irregularities can be detected by barriers. Railcards, for example, are not verified as present and correct by the ticket barriers.

Another reason is that conducting a ticket check can be a great way of engaging with your passengers, which has proven security and customer service benefits.
 

dk1

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Waiting for the 2002hr from St Pancras to Sheffield yesterday, there was the usual rush right up to platform 2a, 9 minutes before departure,for a 5 car train to Sheffield (appalling), after all tickets were checked via the barrier or staff at the gates.

The question. Why then, given that you cannot board the train without going through the barriers, does the guard then come and do a full ticket check, of all previously checked tickets on the platform?

As an aside, what an abysmal station St Pancras is. Not for for purpose.

I spent a couple of hours at St.Pancras yesterday & on Sunday. Very very busy but wonderful Station with great atmosphere. Are you referring more to the lack of EMR capacity?

It’s always good to see revenue protection. I’m happy to show my ticket/pass a dozen times if necessary.
 

NSE

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And people sitting in first without a first ticket.
 

Huntergreed

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Waiting for the 2002hr from St Pancras to Sheffield yesterday, there was the usual rush right up to platform 2a, 9 minutes before departure,for a 5 car train to Sheffield (appalling), after all tickets were checked via the barrier or staff at the gates.

The question. Why then, given that you cannot board the train without going through the barriers, does the guard then come and do a full ticket check, of all previously checked tickets on the platform?

As an aside, what an abysmal station St Pancras is. Not for for purpose.
Several potential reasons.

As I understand it, ticket barriers can only identify whether a ticket is valid for travel to/from a certain station, but cannot differentiate by service. If one held a ticket to Luton but boarded a first stop Leicester service, then one could see how fares could be evaded here.

Barriers may also not pick up on railcard discounted tickets, child discounts etc.

As well as this, guards almost always check first class to make sure only those with first class tickets are sat in there.

Provided the guard had no safety-critical duties to attend to, I think it’s good to see them engaging with passengers and protecting revenue. Much better than many guards who tend to lock themselves in the back cab.
 

GardenRail

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One reason, is that not all ticket irregularities can be detected by barriers. Railcards, for example, are not verified as present and correct by the ticket barriers.

Another reason is that conducting a ticket check can be a great way of engaging with your passengers, which has proven security and customer service benefits.
I did think he was rather brave engaging with the passengers on a full and standing 3¹/² coach train to Sheffield.

I spent a couple of hours at St.Pancras yesterday & on Sunday. Very very busy but wonderful Station with great atmosphere. Are you referring more to the lack of EMR capacity?

It’s always good to see revenue protection. I’m happy to show my ticket/pass a dozen times if necessary.
Yes. Specifically the EMR part. Hoarded in like cattle, and then the free for all just minutes before the train is due to leave. I love EMR going South. But coming back from London is an absolute abortion.
 

tramdan

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I did think he was rather brave engaging with the passengers on a full and standing 3¹/² coach train to Sheffield.
If it’s possible to physically get through, then, it’s absolutely a great idea to do so. In the case of a busy train, help can be offered to get as many people as possible seats, as well as ensuring that (where possible) luggage is stowed in the correct locations.

I would note that actually the shortest length of mainline intercity train that EMR operate out of St Pancras, is 5 coaches.
 

pokemonsuper9

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If it’s possible to physically get through, then, it’s absolutely a great idea to do so. In the case of a busy train, help can be offered to get as many people as possible seats, as well as ensuring that (where possible) luggage is stowed in the correct locations.

I would note that actually the shortest length of mainline intercity train that EMR operate out of St Pancras, is 5 coaches.
But isn't 1+1/2 of that First Class, which is useless for most passengers?
 

GardenRail

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If it’s possible to physically get through, then, it’s absolutely a great idea to do so. In the case of a busy train, help can be offered to get as many people as possible seats, as well as ensuring that (where possible) luggage is stowed in the correct locations.

I would note that actually the shortest length of mainline intercity train that EMR operate out of St Pancras, is 5 coaches.
Technically correct. 5 cars. Wasted by first class. Time to get rid. In my opinion. And the old buffet thing that's no longer used.
 

tramdan

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Others would perhaps opine that on Intercity TOCs, First Class makes quite a bit of sense. Some, with experience of it, might also say that EMR First Class is often well used.

Besides, I think we’ve veered rather dramatically off topic here.
 

TheBigD

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How does that compare to a 5 car Meridian?

Varies due to the recent reformation of 2 x 7 car and 4 x 4 car to 6 x 5car, but most (17 out of 23) of the 5 cars have 50 1st & 190 std, plus a few tip up seats in the vestibules.
 

David Goddard

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Personally would rather see the gates ripped out and more on train checking.
Better for flows of people in and around the stations and a better chance of catching the doughnutters for a start.
 

L401CJF

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Unsure on the layout of this station in particular (whether tickets were checked for boarding that specific train only or multiple platforms). From my personal experience as a guard its quite common for me to do a full ticket check leaving say, Chester and find passengers who have bought a 1 stop ticket to Bache (£2.40) to get through the gates then boarded a service intending to travel 2 hours to Holyhead (£24+).

As mentioned above its also good for general security having a visible staff member, its nice to talk to people, ensuring people have correct railcards, checking people are actually on the right train (very common for people to get the wrong one it turns out, then a panic ehen they find they are going somewhere else!). I have checked somebodys ticket before then noticed them asleep after their destination, usually very appreciative of being woken up closer to their original stop rather than in 2 hours time!

I always ask people if they know where they're changing if applicable - which often results in questions such as what time is the connection, which platform etc. Even questions like is there a taxi rank at XYZ?

It's also good to get through the train and check in on people who require assistance, if you know there's a booked assist onboard just double check where they're going, any connections, what assistance they require etc and then it not only reassures them that they've not been forgotten but also I have the right info from them to call ahead to wherever they're going. Also encounter multiple people whilst doing a ticket check who don't require assistance as such but then ask some help getting their bags off at their destination.

I do a ticket check after a large barriered station as more of a check up rather than revenue protection, its good to know where people are going, answer questions and generally engage with people!
 

Hadders

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Removing the barriers would not be a good idea. While they're not perfect and cannot in themselves detect every invalid ticket (no system ever can) they do give a deterrent.

Also, while on a train that's 1st stop Leicester it'll be possible for the guard to go through the train and check tickets a guard won't get through all passengers on a train that's first stop Luton Airport Parkway.

Anyone who says St Pancras is not fit for purpose would so well to remember the utter decrepit, run down station that was there before it was completely refurbished and extended in the 2000s.
 
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