"one" buffer incident this evening!

[joeholmes]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/4656430.stm

Joe

 

[Z12XE]

Unit was 156422, and would only have been travelling at 5mph or so.

Buffer stop bent forward about half a metre, minor damage to train cow catcher and Gangway.

 

[TheSlash]

Complete and utter twaddle by the BBC. TPWS means trains can approach buffers at 5mph or less.
The impact would of been none existant, more like a heavy coupling procedure, for 4 people to be injured, i'd say it was classic case of ambulance chasers

 

[O L Leigh]

TPWS means trains can approach buffers at 5mph or less.

10mph or less, unless Sudbury has a particularly kinky set-up.

I always hesitate to attribute blame without knowing more, but speed would appear not to have been an issue here. TPWS would have caught him long before he'd hit the buffers. Chances are that, unless there was a brake fault on the train, the driver got distracted and misjudged the distance to the stops. Either way, I imagine that he's already had a bit of a cosy chat with a manager.

Poor sod. Doesn't help our public image. :?

one TN

 

[Z12XE]

Its your standard end of line TPWS setup.

Rail Grinders have been working at Sudbury Station all week, they've totally removed the Zig-Zag Weld along the entire section which could be a factor.


If you think the BBC are bad, the East Anglian Daily Times have devoted 3 pages to it, even wheeled out a photo of a crappy 121 back in 1999 approaching the station (although they've mis-dated it as 2000)
I think perhaps they could have added the caption under that one "it would have been worse if these junk were still in use"

BTP have also added that the train was damaged where the two carriages are joined. Whether he's got the wrong end of the train though and just saw the damage to the end corridor...........

Edit 9:30

153335 is also on site now ready to take 156422 away

 

[TheSlash]

TPWS means trains can approach buffers at 5mph or less.

10mph or less, unless Sudbury has a particularly kinky set-up.
one TN

I thought there was an additional bit of TPWS that meant you had to be doing 5mph when within a coach length of the buffers?

 

[metrocammel]

Its your standard end of line TPWS setup.

Rail Grinders have been working at Sudbury Station all week, they've totally removed the Zig-Zag Weld along the entire section which could be a factor.

AFAIK, the zig-zags are somthing to do with the track cicuit, so I doubt they would have anything to do with it, though I suppose they could also increase friction, causing the unit to stop with a lesser brake application - but there again, wont the grinding also give the rail head more friction - making it easier to stop?

The East Anglian Daily Times have devoted 3 pages to it, even wheeled out a photo of a crappy 121 back in 1999 approaching the station (although they've mis-dated it as 2000)
I think perhaps they could have added the caption under that one "it would have been worse if these junk were still in use"

Well, 156's are probably the best 2nd gen dmu built, however most enthusiasts would give anything for a 121 any day!! God knows why you dont share that opinion - but everyone has their own views!!! And besides, at least if you are in a collision and your in 1st gen, there are loads of doors to escape from, whereas in a 156, if it caught fire - you'd be rather hot...... and that goes for any of the modern rubbish which are supposedly safer, but when you read between the lines, are actually not that safer than the 1st gen stuff..... Yorkie knows much more on that subject than me, has he has done lots of reseach on the matter.

METCAM.

 

[yorkie]

AFAIK, the zig-zags are somthing to do with the track cicuit, so I doubt they would have anything to do with it, though I suppose they could also increase friction, causing the unit to stop with a lesser brake application

the zig-zags create more friction and grip enabling the train to stop, and are only placed at the end of lines. It would make a difference.

but there again, wont the grinding also give the rail head more friction - making it easier to stop?

No.

Proper grinding reduces friction, extends rail life and promotes fuel efficiency.

 

[Z12XE]

God knows why you dont share that opinion - but everyone has their own views!!!

Because I think they are old and crap.

I also dont like buses, which was the result 90% of the time when those awful things were in use

 

[Met Driver]

God knows why you dont share that opinion - but everyone has their own views!!!

Because I think they are old and crap.

...and we're not going to go down that route any further, gents. We all know where it'll lead to, don't we? (<--- rhetorical question )

 

[metrocammel]

the zig-zags create more friction and grip enabling the train to stop, and are only placed at the end of lines. It would make a difference.

Yes, I imagine the zig-zags will create more friction, though they are not only on end-of-line track. There is a set of points at Romiley station that has the same zig-zags. Apparently it is due to the line (near buffers and on underused points etc) being rusty, so obviously the electrical current needed to trigger the track circuit will not happen, therefore, these zig-zags, which are made of a non-rusting metal, will trigger the track circuit.

 

[metrocammel]

Also, Ive just remembered, there are a set of points at Stalybridge, leading onto the very spasmodically used freight lines that are also "zig-zagged".

 

[AlexS]

i suspect the zigzags provide a warning that can be felt as a vibration with regards to when the train is close to the buffers.

As to why people may not be fond of 121s, simple! Toilets are a wonderful thing many of us take for granted, and 121s simply aint got em!

 

[Tom]

Zigzags are used on LUL to improve electrical circuits.

 

[AlexS]

Whether that's what they are intended for is another matter as to what they caaaan be used for!

 

[Z12XE]

As to why people may not be fond of 121s, simple! Toilets are a wonderful thing many of us take for granted, and 121s simply aint got em!

As is a smooth ride on jointed track, something that a properly maintained 156 does nicely.

Much more useful for peak time loadings as well

 

[metrocammel]

Much more useful for peak time loadings as well

Well yes, that is a obviously an advantage... but 121's did an excellent job saving quite a few branchlines, and if it weren't for them, Beeching would have no doubt axed even more branchlines...? But a single car train was never designed for a peak time "commuter" service.

But when maintained, they are extremley reliable, and Chiltern have said, though do not publicise too much, that their bubble car is their most reliable unit!!! And (apparently & amazingly) since it started operating between Aylesbury and P.R. it has never been not in service due to an actual failure. Pretty impressive for a 49 year old bubblecar.

 

[Mojo]

But when maintained, they are extremley reliable, and Chiltern have said, though do not publicise too much, that their bubble car is their most reliable unit!!! And (apparently & amazingly) since it started operating between Aylesbury and P.R. it has never been not in service due to an actual failure. Pretty impressive for a 49 year old bubblecar.

I don't know where you got that from, but it's been OOS quite a few times, it was out for a 2 days when I was on my work experience at Aylesbury TMD in March/April 2004, and it failed at least once in May 2005.

Even though it might be more reliable, it's certaintly not preferred by the customers and every day when I went on it, I heard complaints from the customers.

 

[Z12XE]

Pretty impressive for a 49 year old bubblecar.

Maybe, but if you could take 1 car from a 165, run it minimal mileage per day it would probablt do just as well.

Back earlier this year we managed to have a 153 stay on Diagram for many weeks, and this was managing around 300 miles plus per day some days

 

[NumptyDriver]

AFAIK, the zig-zags are somthing to do with the track cicuit, so I doubt they would have anything to do with it, though I suppose they could also increase friction, causing the unit to stop with a lesser brake application

the zig-zags create more friction and grip enabling the train to stop, and are only placed at the end of lines. It would make a difference.

actually, that's not quite right. the welding on the top of the railhead is for improving the reliability of track circuits - it's important that the signalling system doesn't 'lose' units or other vehicles on occupied bay platform lines for obvious reasons - the welding gives a smaller, raised, non-rusting surface contact area between railhead and wheeltread therefore wheelsets are more likely to complete track circuits than they otherwise would be due to rust or other contaminants including litter (which is pretty common in bay platforms). smaller surface contact patches actually reduce friction and therefore adhesion, so i wouldn't count on increased grip towards the block end!

one other way of increasing detection of vehicles on dead-end platforms is to have long treadles inside one of the running rails - two of these treadles, about 30ft long each IIRC, are still used in rochdale's bay platform - whereby the flange of a wheel depresses the treadle and shows the line as being occupied.