Opportunity to buy a ticket

[cornishjohn]

When commuting I normally buy a return ticket from my "home" station with a local railcard.

My "work" station is a major station on a mainline, with 4 or 5 ticket counters, but usually 2 or 3 serving. The last 2 times times I tried to buy a ticket from a counter there, I queued for over 40 minutes. The local train service is rather erratic, so if you miss one you wait ages, and if you miss the last one you have had it.

On this occasion, my wife had dropped me off at work, so I had to buy a ticket to get home. With about 15 minutes until the train left I queued up at a ticket machine, and after a while noticed the gentleman in front of me was in a wheelchair. It turned out he was travelling with a certain railcard, and after a few minutes it became apparent he was having difficulty finding the proper ticket & railcard selection.

Since he looked around in despair a couple of times, and I thought I was somewhat familiar with the machines I tried to help him, but couldn't find the correct selection either. Eventually he gave up and wheeled off to the platform muttering under his breath. I then found my ticket and with a couple of minutes to go looked about the machine a bit more.

I did actually find the right option for him in the end, but it did not seem to me straightforward, and of course by this time he had gone, and the train was now nearly about to go.

This is not hypothetical. My questions are:

1) Had the gentleman in the wheelchair had "an opportunity to buy"? Was he liable to prosecution under the bylaw for not having a valid ticket?

2) Should I have offered him my business card as a possible witness if he had any trouble later? Could I have been any actual help?

3) Should he expect "discretion" or should he be "chinged"?

 

[221129]

1) Yes.
2) You could have done but wouldn't have helped if they were determined
3) Either or. Depends normally on the attitude displayed.

 

[MikeWh]

1) technically, yes, though he'd really have to fail the attitude test to be in any danger of prosecution.
2) it could help, possibly, though not guaranteed.
3) in a wheelchair I would expect discretion unless seriously failing the attitude test.

 

[34D]

Don't various parts of the NRCOC/routeing guide get disapplied to disabled railcards?

Under common law, he would be entitled to "reasonable adjustments" in any event.

 

[yorkie]

40 minutes to queue? You need to write to the Company about that. What does their charter say the queuing times should be?

 

[najaB]

1) Had the gentleman in the wheelchair had "an opportunity to buy"? Was he liable to prosecution under the bylaw for not having a valid ticket?

2) Should I have offered him my business card as a possible witness if he had any trouble later? Could I have been any actual help?

3) Should he expect "discretion" or should he be "chinged"?

1. Yes, he did have an opportunity to buy, however the NRCoC states

Special arrangements may apply if you are disabled. You will find details of these arrangements in each Train Company’s ‘Disabled People’s Protection Policy’.

Using First Great Western as an example, their policy says:

Where disabled customers are unable to purchase a ticket at a station before their journey, they will be able to buy a ticket without penalty on the train or at their destination.

2) Should I have offered him my business card as a possible witness if he had any trouble later? Could I have been any actual help?

If you are willing to stand witness for someone then yes, it would help

3) Should he expect "discretion" or should he be "chinged"?

As per the DPPP quote above, since they were a wheelchair user, they should expect to be able to purchase on the train. Even without a railcard they are entitled to a discount of at least 34% of walk-up Anytime ticket prices.

 

[gray1404]

Which station is this? That wait time is excessive.

"Don't various parts of the NRCOC/routeing guide get disapplied to disabled railcards?"

Is that true? Any examples.....

 

[najaB]

Is that true? Any examples.....

I don't know about the routeing guide, but the requirement to hold a ticket before boarding is relaxed for disabled people - as per the quote from FGW's disabled person protection policy above.

 

[gray1404]

does it apply to all TOCs though or just some?

 

[bunnahabhain]

This is not hypothetical. My questions are:

1) Had the gentleman in the wheelchair had "an opportunity to buy"? Was he liable to prosecution under the bylaw for not having a valid ticket?

No, any holder of a disabled railcard or somebody who is disabled is entitled to a full range of fares onboard the train at no penalty to themselves. This would include anybody travelling in a wheelchair. They are also entitled to a discount provided they remain in their wheelchair for the entire journey which is 50% off of the fare, if they choose to vacate the wheelchair then a discount would only be applied if a disabled railcard is held.

 

[yorkie]

does it apply to all TOCs though or just some?

I wouldn't word it like that, but I would expect TOCs to have a policy in place to deal with such matters.

For example, East Coast have a policy of selling the appropriate fare, with discount, to any Disabled Railcard holder (this also applies to a companion travelling with the Railcard holder) on board their services.

 

[najaB]

does it apply to all TOCs though or just some?

All TOCs are required to have a disabled person protection policy as per the NRCoC. I've looked at several different TOC's websites and all of them allow disabled people to purchase on board without penalty.

 

[talltim]

Without knowing any other issues he may have had, being in a wheelchair doesn't in itself make you any less able to buy a ticket than anyone else, providing you get the physical access. Of course using a disabled railcard may mean you have to access the depths of the TVM menu system that lesser mortals don't see so really its an issue of interface design rather than disability

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I don't know about the routeing guide, but the requirement to hold a ticket before boarding is relaxed for disabled people - as per the quote from FGW's disabled person protection policy above.

There are limitations of access at many stations (the majority???) and thus a wheelchair user or others with limited mobility would be allowed a reasonable adjustment to facilitate their needs. A wheelchair user may, for example, be allowed to doubleback, if there is no step free access to change platforms.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Without knowing any other issues he may have had, being in a wheelchair doesn't in itself make you any less able to buy a ticket than anyone else, providing you get the physical access.

What if that access adds an extra 15 minutes onto your journey because the booking office is on the other platform and the only access for you involves a detour via the nearest level crossing? There are a number of stations I know of that have such levels of access. Likewise I don't consider a TVM to be a worthy substitute for an appropriately trained booking clerk because of the amount of tickets I see where people have gone for the cheapest possible ticket even if its not valid for the route or journey they wish to make IE day return instead of a period return...but that is another story!

 

[najaB]

What if that access adds an extra 15 minutes onto your journey because the booking office is on the other platform and the only access for you involves a detour via the nearest level crossing?

I think you missed the "providing they have physical access" part of talltim's post.