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Ordsall Chord

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SodTheDrummer

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There are people up for lynching the guy, and I know people weren't particularly impressed with his time involved with the running of the Institute of Civil Engineers. He just about didn't make it to El Presidente, and came close to being kicked out entirely for bringing the profession into disrepute over his comments about post-war municipal engineering, that's about 15 years ago now.

This isn't a new development in his behaviour - he's always been a bit of a smug, arrogant, self serving ass. And the legal challenge is entirely about his reputation and nothing about Stephenson's station. He wants HIS choice of route to vindicate his decision to recommend the route. This despite the fact a mere simpleton can tell you it's not a viable proposition, or a remotely appropriate use of a sparse land resource.

I love PP's posts! This guy can put down issues instantly by actually knowing what he's talking about! Rarity on the T'internet. :D

Read a few articles by Whitby who sold himself out to every available local rag that had no clue about CE, best title was 'Why my route is better' - says it all really. Arrogant ass.
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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I love PP's posts! This guy can put down issues instantly by actually knowing what he's talking about! Rarity on the T'internet. :D

Read a few articles by Whitby who sold himself out to every available local rag that had no clue about CE, best title was 'Why my route is better' - says it all really. Arrogant ass.

One can only but hope that when the next challenge from him is heard in a Court of Law, it will only be the matter of the Ordsall Chord that is heard without any reference to Whitby's personal reputation whatsoever.
 

furnessvale

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Tweet from NR showing piling rig on site to widen railway viaduct.

Hopefully there will be no injunction to stop work!
 

61653 HTAFC

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One can only but hope that when the next challenge from him is heard in a Court of Law, it will only be the matter of the Ordsall Chord that is heard without any reference to Whitby's personal reputation whatsoever.

Would it be altogether wrong to hope (with tongue-firmly-in-cheek) that Whitby goes the same way as Huskisson...?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Would it be altogether wrong to hope (with tongue-firmly-in-cheek) that Whitby goes the same way as Huskisson...?

I thought Huskisson was a major shareholder in the L&M as well as being MP for Liverpool.
It might have been better to have run over the Duke of Wellington, PM and hostile to every form of progress.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Ask Joseph Locke - he was driving the train that hit Huskisson.

So many politicians and so few opportunities ...

I thought Huskisson was a major shareholder in the L&M as well as being MP for Liverpool.
It might have been better to have run over the Duke of Wellington, PM and hostile to every form of progress.

Apart from footwear.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why this forum needs a "like" button!
 

snail

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Manchester Confidential opposed the scheme when first announced so the tone of the article is no surprise.
 

TBirdFrank

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The Ordsall Curve and everything about it is a bloody disgrace, another consultants' gravy train foisted on to the public of Greater Manchester when two minutes intelligent thought reveals better and more strategically valuable alternatives that are cheaper, less destructive of heritage, more useful to journeys around and across the entire north of England.

The so called consultation about the scheme was a complete disgrac e and boiled down to a beauty contest between Irwell Bridge One and Irwell Bridge Two on the pre-selected route and nothing at all to do with a real discussion about options, new journey alternatives etc etc.

Where else but Manchester would 186 years of history be thrown aside, a perpetual guarantee of a main line connection be bribed away for a £3m bung; the concept of a single Main Line station be dismantled after only twenty five years; HS2 if we have to have it, run into a set of buffer stops? etc etc.

And they say modern design involves rigorous thought - well I don't see much of it at present. So well done Mark Whitby for trying to stop this gravy train before it pollutes our city's needs for another generation.
 

HowardGWR

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If it is true that the appeal has been granted, the tone of the article is irrelevant.
Just as an aside, but relevant for the future, is the need for the law on JR to be amended to provide for the necessity for a fast track procedure for JRs about 'nationally important projects' (which would be defined). This would answer the criticism that individual plaintiffs should not, due to their (IMO) right, to ask for JR, delay such projects.

In other words, if they have a case, that case should be heard to end point, without delay.
 

snowball

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Looks like the appeal goes on...

http://www.manchesterconfidential.co.uk/news/ordsall-chord-appeal-victory

...bad news for Manchester rail

There's nothing new there that wasn't reported on this thread on 11 Jan.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If it is true that the appeal has been granted, the tone of the article is irrelevant.

To say that an appeal "has been granted" usually means it has succeeded. This appeal has yet to be heard and there is no indication yet of when it will be heard (except that it will be before Feb next year). Meanwhile Network Rail and its contractors don't seem too worried. They are are continuing with the work.
 
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Ianno87

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the concept of a single Main Line station be dismantled after only twenty five years

A decision made in the late 1980s in the face of a declining "Provincial" network with a pressure to cut costs.

Now we're in the 2010s, with a growing railway and an agenda for stimulating economic growth through investment in transport capacity and connectivity.
 

Philip Phlopp

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The Ordsall Curve and everything about it is a bloody disgrace, another consultants' gravy train foisted on to the public of Greater Manchester when two minutes intelligent thought reveals better and more strategically valuable alternatives that are cheaper, less destructive of heritage, more useful to journeys around and across the entire north of England.

The so called consultation about the scheme was a complete disgrac e and boiled down to a beauty contest between Irwell Bridge One and Irwell Bridge Two on the pre-selected route and nothing at all to do with a real discussion about options, new journey alternatives etc etc.

Where else but Manchester would 186 years of history be thrown aside, a perpetual guarantee of a main line connection be bribed away for a £3m bung; the concept of a single Main Line station be dismantled after only twenty five years; HS2 if we have to have it, run into a set of buffer stops? etc etc.

And they say modern design involves rigorous thought - well I don't see much of it at present. So well done Mark Whitby for trying to stop this gravy train before it pollutes our city's needs for another generation.

The only reasonably realistic alternative I've seen (and which would still need the Ordsall Chord) is the demolition of Manchester Arena, putting the Manchester HS2 station there as a through station, and rebuilding a new arena as part of the HS2 station, together with hotels, nightclubs etc.
 

Joseph_Locke

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The Ordsall Curve and everything about it is a bloody disgrace, another consultants' gravy train foisted on to the public of Greater Manchester when two minutes intelligent thought reveals better and more strategically valuable alternatives that are cheaper, less destructive of heritage, more useful to journeys around and across the entire north of England.

The so called consultation about the scheme was a complete disgrac e and boiled down to a beauty contest between Irwell Bridge One and Irwell Bridge Two on the pre-selected route and nothing at all to do with a real discussion about options, new journey alternatives etc etc.

Where else but Manchester would 186 years of history be thrown aside, a perpetual guarantee of a main line connection be bribed away for a £3m bung; the concept of a single Main Line station be dismantled after only twenty five years; HS2 if we have to have it, run into a set of buffer stops? etc etc.

And they say modern design involves rigorous thought - well I don't see much of it at present. So well done Mark Whitby for trying to stop this gravy train before it pollutes our city's needs for another generation.

So what is/are your alternative proposal(s)?
 

quantinghome

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The Ordsall Curve and everything about it is a bloody disgrace, another consultants' gravy train foisted on to the public of Greater Manchester when two minutes intelligent thought reveals better and more strategically valuable alternatives that are cheaper, less destructive of heritage, more useful to journeys around and across the entire north of England.

The so called consultation about the scheme was a complete disgrac e and boiled down to a beauty contest between Irwell Bridge One and Irwell Bridge Two on the pre-selected route and nothing at all to do with a real discussion about options, new journey alternatives etc etc.

Where else but Manchester would 186 years of history be thrown aside, a perpetual guarantee of a main line connection be bribed away for a £3m bung; the concept of a single Main Line station be dismantled after only twenty five years; HS2 if we have to have it, run into a set of buffer stops? etc etc.

And they say modern design involves rigorous thought - well I don't see much of it at present. So well done Mark Whitby for trying to stop this gravy train before it pollutes our city's needs for another generation.

Whilst I like a good diatribe as much as the next man, if you want to have a discussion about this you need to give everyone a bit more. What's your reasoning? You mention alternatives which are apparently so obvious it only requires two minutes (yet appear to have eluded everyone working on the scheme for the past several years). Please tell.

If on the other hand we want to turn this thread into fulminating opinions without any reference to anything, I like everyone to know that I'm still cross about when they changed the name of Marathon to Snickers...
 

nidave

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Where else but Manchester would 186 years of history be thrown aside, a perpetual guarantee of a main line connection be bribed away for a £3m bung; the concept of a single Main Line station be dismantled after only twenty five years; HS2 if we have to have it, run into a set of buffer stops? etc etc.

1. the station is going nowhere. That station will still be there at the end and visitors to MOSI can still see the station and read all about the history.
2. The station will never be brought back into use - its in a stupid place. You may as well bring back Manchester Central as its larger.
3. Things change, the Victorians were never one to let progress get in their way.
 

GRALISTAIR

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Whilst I like a good diatribe as much as the next man, if you want to have a discussion about this you need to give everyone a bit more. What's your reasoning? You mention alternatives which are apparently so obvious it only requires two minutes (yet appear to have eluded everyone working on the scheme for the past several years). Please tell.

If on the other hand we want to turn this thread into fulminating opinions without any reference to anything, I like everyone to know that I'm still cross about when they changed the name of Marathon to Snickers...

Unless he has his pension scheme with T. Roll. Price :lol:
 

MarkRedon

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...the concept of a single Main Line station be dismantled after only twenty five years
Although TBirdFrank doesn't make things very clear, I wonder if he is here referring to the diversion of interregional services away from Victoria towards Piccadilly and the virtual abolition of the Stalybridge to Stockport service which accompanied that?

In separate news:

http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/ordsall-chord-remains-on-track-but-legal-fight-continues/ This tells us little that we didn't already know, but clarifies that work is continuing:

Ordsall Chord remains on track but legal fight continues

Work will continue on a crucial piece of rail infrastructure to increase capacity across the North, linking Manchester’s Victoria, Oxford Road and Piccadilly Stations with a new viaduct despite a fresh legal challenge from objector Mark Whitby.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Can anyone with information say how the rather large housing (?) development that is oft referred to in conjunction with the Ordsall Chord project (with I think Chinese financial backing) will be affected by the latest legal matter where planning is concerned.

My apologies for forgetting the actual name of that project, but such is the strength of my latest increased dosage on two of my six daily post-stroke medication side-effects that I occasionally suffer from bouts of such forgetfulness...:oops:
 
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