ORR turns down ATW to London

[Ivo]

If WAG want to link all of Wales to Cardiff they will need extra rolling stock. So can we dump every remaining Pacer on them please? They'll get the service they want, and the rest of us will be free from the worst series of units ever built! Everyone is happy!

...until they travel to Pwllheli anyway :roll:

 

[thefab444]

Hmm, he's not responded yet, he much be having 1 hell of a celebration :P

Maybe he's taking his first trip on WSMR.

 

[TDK]

If WAG want to link all of Wales to Cardiff they will need extra rolling stock. So can we dump every remaining Pacer on them please? They'll get the service they want, and the rest of us will be free from the worst series of units ever built! Everyone is happy!

...until they travel to Pwllheli anyway :roll:

They quoted they had the stock for the London Bid so why not use this excess stock for an Aber Cardiff and run less to Birmingham? Of course, ATW would lose the fare abstraction if they did that, and that is the results of privatisation I am afraid.

 

[The Planner]

Id bet if you looked at the figures there is more money in Aber - Brum than there would be Aber - Cardiff, much the same way as Cardiff - Manchester.

 

[TDK]

Id bet if you looked at the figures there is more money in Aber - Brum than there would be Aber - Cardiff, much the same way as Cardiff - Manchester.

ATW's most profitable route is Manchester to Cardiff followed by Chester/Holyhead Brum so I cannot see ATW relinquishing any services to do Aber to Cardiff. It is all about profit these days and not passenger demand.

 

[tbtc]

ATW's most profitable route is Manchester to Cardiff followed by Chester/Holyhead Brum

Are there any actually profitable routes (wholly) within Wales?

 

[The Planner]

It is all about profit these days and not passenger demand.

Is there any demand for Aber Cardiff though ?? Seeing as everything has to go through Shrewsbury would people rather go to Manchester or Brum ?? If there was a massive demand from Wrexham then you would be running more trains with more coaches surely ??

 

[tbtc]

Is there any demand for Aber Cardiff though ??

Is there sufficient demand for the current Holyhead - Cardiff service?

Liverpool Cardiff would be much more popular, surely

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Are there any actually profitable routes (wholly) within Wales?

ever been on a couple of rush hour valley lines services? lol i'd say cardiff-manchester is a pretty popular route, and personally would like to see an increase in services on this line, but doubt we'll see anything til it's at least resignalled.

I personally don't think there is a great deal of demand for aber cardiff, but you put a service on and people will use it. Take the voyager summer diversions for example, those services are often quite popular out of south wales for a service that isn't there for the rest of the year

 

[TDK]

Is there sufficient demand for the current Holyhead - Cardiff service?

Liverpool Cardiff would be much more popular, surely

Wales and Borders used to run a Liverpool to Bristol service and it wasn't very popular. It was taken off them when ATW gained the franshise, Manchester Cardiff is a very profitable route for ATW. The Aber to brum will not change as I quoted earlier will cost ATW money from the abstraction from Salop to Brum. When I posted regarding Aber to Cardiff I was being a tad sarcastic as I know it will never happen.

 

[quarella]

I personally don't think there is a great deal of demand for aber cardiff,

That station just north of Caerphilly has a booking office in the morning and is quite busy.

 

[Oswyntail]

....I personally don't think there is a great deal of demand for aber cardiff, but you put a service on and people will use it. ...

The main problem is the time involved, of course. But, as the journey by road seems fairly grim, there could well be a growth market. After all, Cardiff is the administrative centre of the principality.

 

[CarterUSM]

I don't know particularly much about the principality and it's railways, past and present. I would hazard a guess that there were many more lines than at present though. Was there a main line linking north and south through it before?

 

[Greenback]

tes, the line once continued north of Carmarthen to reach Aberystwyth via Lampeter (another University town) and Tregaron. there were also branches to Aberaeron and Newcastle Emlyn.

How I wish a way could be found to resotre the link, so that Welsh citizens did not have to travel into England in order to reach a destination in Wales!

 

[Proud Salopian]

How I wish a way could be found to resotre the link, so that Welsh citizens did not have to travel into England in order to reach a destination in Wales!

Why? That sounds positively xenophobic if you ask me.

If there are any Welsh people out there who fear or resent having to pass through a bit of England to get to their destination, then they're a bit backwards frankly.

 

[Greenback]

Calm down dear, it was only a joke! IS your signature a joke?!

 

[First class]

Is there sufficient demand for the current Holyhead - Cardiff service?

Liverpool Cardiff would be much more popular, surely

I think a splitting Liverpool-Llandudno/Holyhead service that connects with the ferry to Ireland would be very popular:

Liverpool L Street
Liverpool South Parkway
Runcorn (Halton curve)
Frodsham
Helsby
Chester
Shotton
then major stations on the N. Wales coast to Llandudno/Holyhead

 

[CarterUSM]

It does seem a little strange when you look on the map that no link remains. I wonder if there would be sufficient demand for it? Though i'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere. I think the decision to refuse Arriva is the right one, from what I can tell on here they don't seem to run the best of services.

 

[First class]

It does seem a little strange when you look on the map that no link remains. I wonder if there would be sufficient demand for it? Though i'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere. I think the decision to refuse Arriva is the right one, from what I can tell on here they don't seem to run the best of services.

That service would take off like a rocket in Summer, with good demand throughout the year.

An easy, "express-like" alternative route for Liverpool-Chester, there is a very big Irish influence in Liverpool, with most coming via Holyhead on the ferry, and a lot of people in Liverpool still have caravans etc in the likes of Rhyl/Llandudno.

It would benefit Merseyrail as their services would be less busy with people going long distance, (with large suitcases etc), but still receive a nice cut from the revenue.

You'd also be surprised how big the Liverpool-Shotton flow market can be!

 

[tbtc]

If there are any Welsh people out there who fear or resent having to pass through a bit of England to get to their destination, then they're a bit backwards frankly.

...or Welsh people who don't want their nice posh train stopping at English stations it passes through like Hereford, that'd be equally backwards. But that'd never happen, would it?

 

[HSTfan!!!]

That station just north of Caerphilly has a booking office in the morning and is quite busy.

indeed, my apologies, I was referring to Aberystwyth
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

tes, the line once continued north of Carmarthen to reach Aberystwyth via Lampeter (another University town) and Tregaron. there were also branches to Aberaeron and Newcastle Emlyn.

How I wish a way could be found to resotre the link, so that Welsh citizens did not have to travel into England in order to reach a destination in Wales!

putting aside the bit about travelling through england, it would certainly cut journey times if such a reopening was possible.

 

[Proud Salopian]

Calm down dear, it was only a joke! IS your signature a joke?!

Fair enough, you were having a joke - but there are some out there (a couple of Welsh Assembly members included) who actually take the view that it is unacceptable for Welsh train passengers to have to travel through England to reach other parts of Wales. Which is a ridiculous notion.

As for my signature - it's a tongue-in-cheek observation that many of our train services and station/line improvements (in Shropshire) are being funded by the Welsh Assembly! (As opposed to being helped out by a UK or English government/body..) We're also being "fortified" with German subsidies in an indirect way via WSMR!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

putting aside the bit about travelling through england, it would certainly cut journey times if such a reopening was possible.

Would it though? Perhaps to go from either North or South Wales to Mid-Wales... but to go North-South the existing Hereford/Shrewsbury route is pretty quick and I don't think another route (unless engineered expensively) through the mountains or along the coast would be as quick. The electrification of Newport-Shrewsbury-Crewe is surely a more useful way of spending money, than trying to reconstruct a series of lines to go North-South Wales via Wales only.

 

[Greenback]

Fair enough, you were having a joke - but there are some out there (a couple of Welsh Assembly members included) who actually take the view that it is unacceptable for Welsh train passengers to have to travel through England to reach other parts of Wales. Which is a ridiculous notion.

As for my signature - it's a tongue-in-cheek observation that many of our train services and station/line improvements (in Shropshire) are being funded by the Welsh Assembly! (As opposed to being helped out by a UK or English government/body..) We're also being "fortified" with German subsidies in an indirect way via WSMR!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Would it though? Perhaps to go from either North or South Wales to Mid-Wales... but to go North-South the existing Hereford/Shrewsbury route is pretty quick and I don't think another route (unless engineered expensively) through the mountains or along the coast would be as quick. The electrification of Newport-Shrewsbury-Crewe is surely a more useful way of spending money, than trying to reconstruct a series of lines to go North-South Wales via Wales only.

I know - I've heard them! But it would be a better argument to leave out countries/nationalities and point out that there is no rail link between the holiday areas in South West Wales (Tenby, Pembrokeshire Coast National Park etc), the Universities at Lampeter and Aber, and Southern Cardiganshire.

As I said earlier, I don't see any way that the link will ever be restored, and yes, the Marche sline is pretty quick if you are starting in Cardiff (fair enough, it's the biggest city!) but for someone living in SW Wales, to get to Mid or North Wales by train is such a long way round as to be practically unfeasible! With good connections, it's still quicker to go Carmarthen - Shrewsbury via Heart of Wales than Cardiff, despite the slow speed of the former.

Luckily we can get a bus via Carmarthen to Aberystwyth for £6.50 or so! But we would definitely pay more for train travel!

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Would it though? Perhaps to go from either North or South Wales to Mid-Wales... but to go North-South the existing Hereford/Shrewsbury route is pretty quick and I don't think another route (unless engineered expensively) through the mountains or along the coast would be as quick. The electrification of Newport-Shrewsbury-Crewe is surely a more useful way of spending money, than trying to reconstruct a series of lines to go North-South Wales via Wales only.

I think you might be quite right, if signalling were improved and electrification were introduced with perhaps more passing loops for freights etc then I think the marches could be much improved and definitely a better way of spending any money.
Though it would be interesting to see such a route, it seems this is catered for by arriva bus?

 

[Polarbear]

Arriva & First run a joint bus route (X40) which covers the gap between Carmarthen & Aberystwyth. Three services (all Arriva) operate an expess link south of Carmarthen to Swansea & two of those go on to Cardiff.

It's hourly between Carmarthen & Aberystwyth for most of the day, with one solitary Sunday bus (an out & back from Aberystwyth to Carmarthen).

Whilst not particularly fast, the bus probably caters for most of the demand on this corridor so I can't see the railway being brought back to life any time soon....unfortunately.:cry:

 

[Greenback]

The X40 bus is the one I referred to earlier. From my journeys on it, the bus seems to serve a purely local market as I have seen no one else travel the whole length from Carmarthen to Aber! It can be quite busy on section eg Aber - Aberaeron, Aberaeron - Lampeter, but, like most bus services, I don;t think the majority of people seriously consider a journey which involves a train AND a longish bus journey.

If the line had not been closed (I agree it will never come back!) it would have been a very useful link as it would have allowed rail access from South East Wales, Bristol etc to Southern Cardiganshire, one change journeys from South West Wales and Cardigan Bay to/from Birmingham and Shropshire. The other advantage is that as part of National Rail it would have shown up in journey planners. The difficulty in finding information at the moment is a disincentive to use public transport to reach the area - don;t start me on the shambles that is traveline!