OUIGO train classique Paris Bruxelles

[MarcVD]

The new ”slow train” service between Brussels and Paris has been launched and reservations are available as of today. Apparently SNCB is just the operator of the service, which is sold under the SNCF OUIGO brand, with their usual conditions :
- yield management, price varying from 10 to 59 Euros
- no first class
- no choice of seat
- mandatory reservation
- interrail and eurail passes not accepted
- restrictions or price supplements for heavy luggage and bikes

There are 3 trains per day in each direction (5 slots were initially requested). The trains will be formed with SNCB I11 cars and HLE18 locos. One I11BDx car will be included in each train because only this car features an accessible toilet, but it will not be used in push-pull service, as it does not have homologation (yet?) on the French network. Top and tail formations are apparently not allowed either, so there will be a mandatory loco exchange at each end of journey. There will be 3 trains assigned to this service, two running and a third in reserve. The cars have received vinyls with the usual (disgusting) ouigo livery, let's just hope that they don't 'decorate' the locost the same way...



(Picture found on Facebook, not by me)

On ouigo tgvs, ex first class seats are sold as XL seats for a premium. On ouigo classic trains, that offer did not exist yet. But apparently, it will make its first appearance with those new trains, as can be seen in the picture above. I have perused the SNCB international and OUIGO web sites to find out how to reserve those seats, bu my research has been until now unsuccessful.

 

[rvdborgt]

On ouigo tgvs, ex first class seats are sold as XL seats for a premium. On ouigo classic trains, that offer did not exist yet. But apparently, it will make its first appearance with those new trains, as can be seen in the picture above. I have perused the SNCB international and OUIGO web sites to find out how to reserve those seats, bu my research has been until now unsuccessful.

According to the product sheet, XL seats will be sold later as an additional option. The Dutch version says "in a later phase", so that sounds like they won't be available yet in the first weeks/months of operation.

 

[signed]

On ouigo tgvs, ex first class seats are sold as XL seats for a premium. On ouigo classic trains, that offer did not exist yet

XL only exists in Spain, as those kept the standard interior and bar car. In France they are full of the same seating, same on Ouigo Train Classique

just hope that they don't 'decorate' the locost the same way...

It's very likely, but it will probably depends whether locos are specified for that service or not

 

[iknowyeah]

When do these come into service? Travelling from Paris to Brussels on the 23rd January and would like to sample it

 

[rvdborgt]

When do these come into service? Travelling from Paris to Brussels on the 23rd January and would like to sample it

The trains will run from 19/12. Timetables in all relevant planners.

 

[nwales58]

And the cheapest fare is Eur10. Plus 5 for a bag.

 

[iknowyeah]

The trains will run from 19/12. Timetables in all relevant planners.

On this date I can only find one train in the evening

 

[rvdborgt]

On this date I can only find one train in the evening

They run all 3.

Which planner are you looking at? bahn.de, sncf-connect.com and b-europe.com show them all.

And the cheapest fare is Eur10. Plus 5 for a bag.

5 for an extra bag. 1 small and 1 semi-large bag are included.

 

[iknowyeah]

They run all 3.

Which planner are you looking at? bahn.de, sncf-connect.com and b-europe.com show them all.

5 for an extra bag. 1 small and 1 semi-large bag are included.

Tried sncf, b-europe and DB

Getting these results


Edit
Even searching live departures gets me this

 

[rvdborgt]

Tried sncf, b-europe and DB

Getting these results


Edit
Even searching live departures gets me this

I looked at 19/12 because you mentioned "this date" while directly replying to my comment about 19/12...
On 20-24 January, I can only find 1 train pair indeed. Not sure why. There are some engineering works on some weekends later in the year (with diversions), but I'm not aware of anything (yet) for that week.

Edit: I missed something and there are indeed engineering works that week, resulting in only 1 train pair. Paris to Brussels follows the normal route with the normal stops, but Brussels to Paris is probably diverted via Luttre, then line 124A/1 and via Maubeuge. Closer to Paris probably over the freight line via Ormoy-Villers. No stops in Mons and Creil in that direction.

 

[popeter45]

what was the reason for going ouigo rather than eurocity?

 

[signed]

what was the reason for going ouigo rather than eurocity?

EuroCity hasn't been a brand in France for decades. And it's either a way to differentiate the extremely expensive Eurostar Red to the ultra-cheap, twice as long, classic train.

Or, the whole service is just wet-leased sets with SNCF being at the helm of everything.

 

[Fragezeichnen]

what was the reason for going ouigo rather than eurocity?

Nothing terrifies SNCF more than the thought of passengers being able to travel without a reservation, or bringing more than the regulation amount of luggage. And they really hate Interrail.
It's fake competition, essentially - it needs to be good enough to take some business from buses and budget airlines(and scare of anyone else trying to run low cost rail services), but it musn't be allowed to have any advantages over Eurostar. Can't be threatening that sweet, sweet revenue of running 25 year old trains completely sold out at €150 a seat.

 

[RT4038]

Nothing terrifies SNCF more than the thought of passengers being able to travel without a reservation,

Can understand that - why spoil the reserved traveller's journey by the possibility of overcrowding, or arguing with someone sat in your seat?

or bringing more than the regulation amount of luggage.

Can understand that - too many long distance trains have excess luggage problems, so discourage by charging extra.

And they really hate Interrail.

Can understand that - insufficient revenue compared to yield managed tickets, and lots of extra programming costs to accommodate Interrail discounts for little return.

It's fake competition, essentially - it needs to be good enough to take some business from buses and budget airlines(and scare of anyone else trying to run low cost rail services), but it musn't be allowed to have any advantages over Eurostar.

Surely the cheaper tickets EUR10-59 will likely to be a price advantage over Eurostar? (in exchange for a slower journey?). If they are protecting their core profitable market by this service then good luck to them. Plenty of transport operators do similar.....

 

[dutchflyer]

1.Nothing terrifies SNCF more than the thought of passengers being able to travel without a reservation, or bringing more than the regulation amount of luggage. 2.And they really hate Interrail.

@1. Very well know this is the FR vs DE view. But look at a general touristy forum like TA=TripAdvisor, or even the general Qs of those using EUrail in that forum=community, thus from out of EUR: anyone seems to think trains work same-same as planes: can REServe many monthes ahead, and all seats are bookable: hence the terryfying fears of those that trains are ´fully booked/sold out´ more as 1/2 yr ahead
@2. No, that 1st prize really goes to RENFE-in the southern neighbor ESpana. And IF they really did-noone stops them of stepping out of this decades old train-promoting scheme. In fact it seems (also from posts in that community) That SNCF even has a bonus for those using it and living in la douce FRance: FREE REServations for the OUt+In bound trips. But perhaps this underlines your point=get them out ASAP?
But that is all well away from this revived old-line as subject of this thread in the forum

 

[lkoroes]

Can understand that - why spoil the reserved traveller's journey by the possibility of overcrowding, or arguing with someone sat in your seat?


Can understand that - too many long distance trains have excess luggage problems, so discourage by charging extra.


Can understand that - insufficient revenue compared to yield managed tickets, and lots of extra programming costs to accommodate Interrail discounts for little return.


Surely the cheaper tickets EUR10-59 will likely to be a price advantage over Eurostar? (in exchange for a slower journey?). If they are protecting their core profitable market by this service then good luck to them. Plenty of transport operators do similar.....

Not the SNCF apologism!

“Spoil the reserved passenger’s journey by the possibility of overcrowding” it’s public transport, if it runs, I should be able to get on it.
“Arguing with someone sat in your seat” this is what train managers are for, but I’ve never not been given my seat when I showed someone sat in it my reservation
“Too many long distance trains have excess luggage problems” - maybe, if you’re long distance trains are inadequately equipped for luggage space. Discouraging people by charging extra on a train makes zero sense.
Interrail is a right, not a privilege.

 

[signed]

Interrail is a right, not a privilege.

Except when every single Open Access Operator doesn't accept it. It's became the norm now, which is sad of course

Neither Italo, Irio, Flixtrain... are available on Interrail

it’s public transport, if it runs, I should be able to get on it.

Playing the devil's advocate :

It is not public transport from the French Government perspective, SNCF TGV workings, beit regular or Ouigo, run at it's own costs as a private company. Only specific ones are subsidised but that's far from the norm.

I can't imagine how bad overcrowding would be if you started allowing no-reservation on Paris Lyon. Which is why some of the Open Access ventures like Kevin Speed, make little to no sense

insufficient revenue compared to yield managed tickets, and lots of extra programming costs to accommodate Interrail discounts for little return.

That makes no sense, it's just a ticket type to add

too many long distance trains have excess luggage problems, so discourage by charging extra.

Is that really an issue (spoiler, it's not, I have been on many trains bound for the ski resorts, all luggage was in there correctly), or more a money issue?
SNCF wants their trains to be become airplanes and charge for everything. Which is bad enough.

 

[lkoroes]

I can't imagine how bad overcrowding would be if you started allowing no-reservation on Paris Lyon. Which is why some of the Open Access ventures like Kevin Speed, make little to no sense

People who take high-speed trains standing do it out of necessity, not choice. By making seat reservations cheap and accessible - a la DB or ÖBB - this can be resolved. Yes, I've travelled on packed ICEs from Frankfurt to Brussels. The savvy traveller always pays for a seat reservation on those. The standing passenger on a service like that can always decide to travel with a later train.

 

[rvdborgt]

Playing the devil's advocate :

It is not public transport from the French Government perspective, SNCF TGV workings, beit regular or Ouigo, run at it's own costs as a private company. Only specific ones are subsidised but that's far from the norm.

It's true that SNCF are supposed to run their TGVs as a private company. But it's all public transport. Whether it's subsidised or not doesn't matter.
They want reservations because that way, they can fill up TGVs to the last seat and maximise profit. Maximising passenger benefit at a moderate profit doesn't seem to be a thing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't imagine how bad overcrowding would be if you started allowing no-reservation on Paris Lyon. Which is why some of the Open Access ventures like Kevin Speed, make little to no sense

Is SNCF operating under capacity to the extent that say XC is? If so why are they throwing away potential business? Despite stories to the contrary, outside of disruption needing to stand on UK domestic long distance rail is fairly unusual aside from XC and some regional services - Avanti and LNER for instance aren't routinely full of standees.

 

[Mike395]

Is SNCF operating under capacity to the extent that say XC is? If so why are they throwing away potential business? Despite stories to the contrary, outside of disruption needing to stand on UK domestic long distance rail is fairly unusual aside from XC and some regional services - Avanti and LNER for instance aren't routinely full of standees.

Yes, in a word; fully booked TGVs on routes which run every 2 hours (and there's nothing in the opposite hour's path on the LGV) is not uncommon in peak periods. There doesn't seem to be the will from SNCF to grow the market for long distance travel in the same way as a lot of other European operators like CD (Czechia) and OBB (Austria).

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

There are TGV Ouigo services as well, of course, which are increasingly the norm. In the U.K. long distance services are generally more frequent - Manchester to London is 3 per hour, Lyon to Paris is at best hourly and SNCF still haven't got the hang of regular interval timetables.

 

[signed]

There doesn't seem to be the will from SNCF to grow the market for long distance travel

This and the fact that there isn't any stock available. Instead of fixing that with ordering more TGV Ms they prefer to ship 15 of the 120 ordered to Italy to compete with themselves (Italo, of which they are shareholders). The stock strategy is abysmal at best.

There are TGV Ouigo services as well, of course, which are increasingly the norm

Which is sad as in most cases it's a lot more expensive for an adult (though for a child it's €10)

Is SNCF operating under capacity to the extent that say XC is?

Yes, a sizeable part of that because the lack of rolling stock is direly bad

And some Paris terminis are also running at capacity (Montparnasse is the glaring example)

 

[nwales58]

SNCF loves competition. And also has spare Ouigo units. In Spain.

Where both Ouigo and Iryo appear to be losing money still.

Back on Bruxelles, therefore SNCF should be enthusiastic about Flix RegioJet or the french new entrants pitching up with classic services to the not so well served poorer bits of Belgium. Or anyone with units for LGV Nord.