Out of court settlement payment timeframe

[lira199]

Hello everyone,
I have been issued a out of court penalty charge by GA for a rather hefty sum that there is no way I can pay within the timeframe of a month that they have given me, even after I had asked for a payment scheme or something similar as the amount is nothing most normal people have laying around. Do I have no choice but to take this to court?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hello everyone,
I have been issued a out of court penalty charge by GA for a rather hefty sum that there is no way I can pay within the timeframe of a month that they have given me, even after I had asked for a payment scheme or something similar as the amount is nothing most normal people have laying around. Do I have no choice but to take this to court?

You would be very well advised to beg or borrow so as to pay it, as it is very likely the Court will hand down a much larger fine.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

@Bletchleyite is very probably right, so you should start trying to work out how you can raise the funds: but while you are doing that, it will do no harm to try writing to GA to ask again for a payment scheme.

To have any chance of success you will need to be fully open about what you can afford, so that will mean telling GA about your income, and your outgoings (rent, commuting, bills and so on). You also need to understand that even if GA are prepared to allow a payment scheme, they will want to get the money owed to them sooner rather than later, and will want the scheme to be fairly cheap to administer. What this boils down to is that if you owe GA £1,000, they will not agree to you paying £2 a week for 500 weeks (almost ten years!), but they might agree to you paying £200 a month for five months (less than half a year). A scheme like this might be difficult for you - but frankly the railway won't be too interested in whether it's easy for you or not - they just want their money.

I must emphasise that I've never heard of this being successful with the railway: I'm just drawing from what I've heard about in other circumstances. But as long as you don't rely on being able to agree a payment plan, I don't see that it can hurt to ask.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'd agree with @Fawkes Cat you can certainly ask for a payment plan but firstly I can't recall anyone ever having been successfully able to agree to one and secondly if you're to have any hope of doing I think your best bet is to make large payments so the matter is disposed of quickly. Offering to make three or four monthly payments to dispose of it in three or four months is far more likely to be agreed to than offering years worth of payments. You want to consider doing a budget to make sure you list everything and so it can be shown in a clear to follow format. Citizens Advice have one (here) you can do online but various other organisations produce them. You can just google "income and expenditure form" and find plenty of results.

I would also echo @Bletchleyite in that if there's anyway you can find to pay the out of court settlement then that is probably wiser than taking it to court. The court has the discretion to agree to a payment plan but the amount is likely to be higher and you will have been convicted of a criminal offence as well. Paying the out of court settlement avoids a criminal conviction. So it is worth your while if there's any possibility.

 

[island]

Because the main lever they have to make you keep to the payment plan is prosecution, and they can usually only do that within 6 months of the alleged offence, payment plans are not generally offered for ticketing offences. I've not heard of any being granted since I've been on the forum.

Therefore, I would suggest you do one or more of the following:

• Have a think about whether you really can't pay that much or whether it's more that you feel it's disproportionate/unfair.
• Investigate whether you can borrow money with a credit card or from a friend or family member
• See whether you can cash in savings, sell household possessions, work some extra hours, or similar

because this won't go away and if it goes to court and you lose, you'll end up owing more, with a potential criminal record to boot.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum. It would help if you could give us more details about your case as there is an outside possibility that no offence has been committed.

Train companies do not normally agree to payment plans because if the person defaults it can be difficult for them to prosecute as the case can time out.

There is a danger with contacting the train company and asking for a payment plan in that they could just withdraw the settlement offer and refer the case to the Magistrates Court. This is the last thing you need because as already noted it will likely cost you far more and could be accompanied by a criminal record.

I would do everything possible to borrow the money.

 

[lira199]

Thank you all for your replies.

If it needs to be within 6months of the offense, then it has long passed for many of the dates they are trying to charge me, as it is charges for a misused spouse staff travel card that they have dated back over 3 years. (I was not intentionally misusing the card, but that aside as thats not relavant to the situation) I am going to attempt to appeal a lot of the dates as they genuinely have not broken any rules (they were for leisure) by submitting proof on dates I DO have proof for (I was told I can do this by the officer who originally investigated me) and by what I am reading here this is probably why they offered an out of court in the first place?

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you all for your replies.

If it needs to be within 6months of the offense, then it has long passed for many of the dates they are trying to charge me, as it is charges for a misused spouse staff travel card that they have dated back over 3 years. (I was not intentionally misusing the card, but that aside as thats not relavant to the situation) I am going to attempt to appeal a lot of the dates as they genuinely have not broken any rules (they were for leisure) by submitting proof on dates I DO have proof for (I was told I can do this by the officer who originally investigated me) and by what I am reading here this is probably why they offered an out of court in the first place?

Which offence are they wanting to prosecute for and when did they become aware of them?

The six month timescale for summary only offences applies to when the prosecuting authority became aware of them. When were you caught?

 

[lira199]

They are accusing me of using the card for commuting not leisure.

I am not sure when they became aware of it, but they are backdating to as late as 2019, and I was never "caught", but I was spoken to about this first in feb 2022 in person when I was going out (again, this was for leisure)

 

[Bletchleyite]

They are accusing me of using the card for commuting not leisure.

I am not sure when they became aware of it, but they are backdating to as late as 2019, and I was never "caught", but I was spoken to about this first in feb 2022 in person when I was going out (again, this was for leisure)

If you have genuinely not used the card for commuting at all, ever, then you may wish to seek professional legal advice on whether it might actually be better going to Court and pleading not guilty - but that may not be cheap.

If you have used it for commuting, then you're still going to need to find the money and pay promptly.

 

[AlterEgo]

They are accusing me of using the card for commuting not leisure.

I am not sure when they became aware of it, but they are backdating to as late as 2019, and I was never "caught", but I was spoken to about this first in feb 2022 in person when I was going out (again, this was for leisure)

So they became aware of it very recently. The six month statute of limitations does not apply.

What evidence of misuse did they have, and what in fact did you use the card for? How much is the settlement figure? You should explore some options here.

What is the offence they are accusing you of? They should have cited a law. Which law are they wanting to prosecute you under?

 

[Hadders]

Presumably this is a staff travel pass you're accused of mis-using. Are you employed by the railway or do you have a pass because a close relative is a railway employee?

This is not my area of expertise but mis-use of a staff travel pass can have consequences from a work point of view so I would be very careful and reiterate my earlier advice to do what you can to pay what is being asked.

 

[pelli]

This is not my area of expertise but mis-use of a staff travel pass can have consequences from a work point of view so I would be very careful and reiterate my earlier advice to do what you can to pay what is being asked.

This is also not my area of expertise, but surely this advice only applies if the payment is considered to not only put the matter of fare evasion to rest but also puts the matter of misuse of staff pass to rest? For example, if a spouse travel pass is alleged to be misused the railway could demand money from the spouse to cover the journeys made while also disciplining/firing the employee, and in that case paying the money instead of fighting the allegations (assuming the pass was not actually being misused) could be interpreted as admission of guilt and thus cause the employee to lose their job.

 

[Haywain]

I would be surprised if long term misuse of a spouse pass did not result in action being taken to prevent future misuse. This could be withdrawal or disciplinary action against the employee, in addition to seeking to recover the underpayments.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Given that this involves staff travel (whether because the OP is staff, or their spouse or relative is) I think the staff member needs to urgently talk to their union. We have seen cases here where abuse of staff travel has led to dismissal.

 

[Haywain]

Given that this involves staff travel (whether because the OP is staff, or their spouse or relative is) I think the staff member needs to urgently talk to their union. We have seen cases here where abuse of staff travel has led to dismissal.

And in that very same area of the country.

 

[jumble]

Thank you all for your replies.

If it needs to be within 6months of the offense, then it has long passed for many of the dates they are trying to charge me, as it is charges for a misused spouse staff travel card that they have dated back over 3 years. (I was not intentionally misusing the card, but that aside as thats not relavant to the situation) I am going to attempt to appeal a lot of the dates as they genuinely have not broken any rules (they were for leisure) by submitting proof on dates I DO have proof for (I was told I can do this by the officer who originally investigated me) and by what I am reading here this is probably why they offered an out of court in the first place?

I would bear in mind that you if you pay you may be accepting that you misused the pass issued by the rail industry to someone else in the rail industry who might tell the issuer.
This may very well have implications vs going to court and being found not guilty
I would be consulting a lawyer or your union before doing anything

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would be surprised if long term misuse of a spouse pass did not result in action being taken to prevent future misuse. This could be withdrawal or disciplinary action against the employee, in addition to seeking to recover the underpayments.

I can't remember the full circumstances, but there was a case on here a while back of a member of staff being dismissed because of their spouse's abuse of their pass. Responsibility, slightly bizarrely, lies with the employee for how they are used.

 

[SteveM70]

One other thing it might be worth bearing in mind in terms of costs - if you get convicted in court as others have said its likely that the fine will be more than the out of court settlement offer, but furthermore your ongoing costs might increase, for example the cost of insurance. Its a pretty standard question when applying for any sort of insurance as to whether the applicant has any criminal convictions

 

[Deafdoggie]

I would bear in mind that you if you pay you may be accepting that you misused the pass issued by the rail industry to someone else in the rail industry who might tell the issuer.
This may very well have implications vs going to court and being found not guilty
I would be consulting a lawyer or your union before doing anything

Certainly you should get legal advice first, but usually an out of court settlement is not an admission of guilt. See Prince Andrew.

 

[jumble]

Certainly you should get legal advice first, but usually an out of court settlement is not an admission of guilt. See Prince Andrew.

Maybe but PA is involved a Civil case not criminal


The Grand Old Duke of York
He gave 12 million quid
To someone he claims he never met
for something he never did

 

[Haywain]

Maybe but PA is Civil case not criminal

And in a different jurisdiction.