Overdistance Excess : Poynton - Sheffield to Chesterfield

[323235]

Hi All,

I held a Poynton - Sheffield Off Peak Day Return which is £10.50 and asked for an over distance excess to Chesterfield to make an unplanned additional move. I was charged £2.75 the difference between the two applicable Off Peak Day Return fares from Poynton - Sheffield and Poynton - Chesterfield

However when I got home I looked and remembered that in fact the cheapest ticket available from Poynton - Chesterfield is now a Super Off Peak Day Return which is £11.35.

So was £2.75 the correct excess? or was I overcharged as I suspect maybe the case?

For clarity I have a 16-25 Railcard.

 

[GadgetMan]

Not checked the fares, but tickets have to be excessed to the same ticket type or higher in the majority of cases. So u can excess an off peak to an Anytime. But not the other way around.

Just checked and you were indeed excessed from an off peak day return to an off peak day return.

That is the correct way to do it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not checked the fares, but tickets have to be excessed to the same ticket type or higher in the majority of cases. So u can excess an off peak to an Anytime. But not the other way around.

Just checked and you were indeed excessed from an off peak day return to an off peak day return.

That is the correct way to do it.

Anyone knowledgeable out there clarify the above? When I went through retail training the above is what we were taught.

However I have just had a quick scan through the excess section of the manual and it refers to excessing to an "appropriate fare". Nothing to say we can't excess someone from say an off-peak return to a super off-peak return.

For example; passenger has a Off Peak Return ticket (£20) from A-B but wants to excess to station C

A-B Off Peak Return £20 (A-B does not have a Super Off Peak Return).

A-C Off Peak Return £24
A-C Super Off Peak Return £21



Now going by the rules taught to me (10 yrs ago), I would excess the passenger to the equivalent ticket, ie; charge them £4.

But after having a quick look through the manual I can't see any reason why we couldn't charge the passenger £1 and excess to the Super Off Peak ticket as that would be an "appropriate Fare" assuming the journey was not affected by any of the restrictions.

 

[Terrafire]

Not checked the fares, but tickets have to be excessed to the same ticket type or higher in the majority of cases. So u can excess an off peak to an Anytime. But not the other way around.

Just checked and you were indeed excessed from an off peak day return to an off peak day return.

That is the correct way to do it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Anyone knowledgeable out there clarify the above? When I went through retail training the above is what we were taught.

However I have just had a quick scan through the excess section of the manual and it refers to excessing to an "appropriate fare". Nothing to say we can't excess someone from say an off-peak return to a super off-peak return.

For example; passenger has a Off Peak Return ticket (£20) from A-B but wants to excess to station C

A-B Off Peak Return £20 (A-B does not have a Super Off Peak Return).

A-C Off Peak Return £24
A-C Super Off Peak Return £21



Now going by the rules taught to me (10 yrs ago), I would excess the passenger to the equivalent ticket, ie; charge them £4.

But after having a quick look through the manual I can't see any reason why we couldn't charge the passenger £1 and excess to the Super Off Peak ticket as that would be an "appropriate Fare" assuming the journey was not affected by any of the restrictions.

Is there perhaps an issue that part of the A-B Off-Peak Return might already have been used at a time when the A-C Super Off-Peak Return would not have been valid, thereby enabling the passenger to get A-B Off-Peak travel at the Super-Off-Peak price?

Of course, not all Off-Peaks are created equal, so this problem exists even between the same ticket type, but the case for not allowing this free benefit seems more compelling between different types.

 

[yorkie]

The excess should be to the appropriate fare, unless you have declined an opportunity to buy before boarding and then it would be to the full fare.

Of course there could be issues as identified by Terrafire but if the TOCs had sensible pricing strategies in the first place these would not occur

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Without knowing when you were travelling it is impossible to say if it was right or not. I presume that you travelled yesterday (Sunday), but you haven't actually told us that.

 

[barrykas]

Having just checked the Excess procedures in The Manual for the wording, it appears that ATOC have moved the goalposts again and not bothered to brief people.

An overdistance excess should apparently now (as of the 29th of December) be calculated as the FULL difference between the price of the ticket already held and the "appropriate" fare for the through journey, or a new Single if cheaper. (Though if you sell a Single, it needs to comply with Condition 19 of the NRCoC).

Cheers,

Barry

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I thought it had been that way for a while.

 

[island]

So did I.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I thought it had been that way for a while.

It has, but they haven't bothered to update the software on the majority of TIS as far as I am aware.

 

[323235]

Without knowing when you were travelling it is impossible to say if it was right or not. I presume that you travelled yesterday (Sunday), but you haven't actually told us that.

It was Saturday and I travelled from 1330 Poynton to Sheffield 1434 went to a few pubsand the tap then we decided to go to Chesterfield, so I asked for an over distance excess to Chesterfield at Sheffield Station and was charged the difference between a Poynton -Sheffield CDR and Poynton - Chesterfield CDR which was £2.75. Both with a railcard.

However when I got home I looked up the fares and remembered there is now a Super Off Peak Day Return to Chesterfield and began to wonder if is actually possible to excess from a Poynton - Sheffield CDR to a Poynton - Chesterfield Super Off Peak Day Return.

 

[yorkie]

Yes, the excess should be to the appropriate fare, in this case the Super Off Peak is the appropriate fare (as it's a weekend).

I note that it is 10p cheaper to go to Chesterfield than Sheffield if travelling at times that the Super Off Peak is valid and if travelling by a route that requires the Any Permitted routeing.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I can only presume the clerk thought the Super Off Peak was restricted for break of journey (it does not appear to be) and, as a Tis will not account for that, they chose not to excess to it. I'd suggest writing in to/phoning EMT and requesting the difference back from them.

 

[34D]

I can only presume the clerk thought the Super Off Peak was restricted for break of journey (it does not appear to be) and, as a Tis will not account for that, they chose not to excess to it. I'd suggest writing in to/phoning EMT and requesting the difference back from them.

I wouldn't! Surely a ticket can't be excessed when it has been fully used? If anyone from EMT is reading this, they may well feel that the correct course of action was to issue a fresh ticket?

As always, I'm happy to be put right by the more experienced members if applicable.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Was it fully used though?

 

[34D]

Was it fully used though?

Surely it was (unless you mean something subtle that I wouldn't understand)? Our guy says:

"It was Saturday and I travelled from 1330 Poynton to Sheffield 1434 went to a few pubs and the tap then we decided to go to Chesterfield, so I asked for an over distance excess to Chesterfield at Sheffield Station"

 

[yorkie]

The outward part is used. The return part isn't.

What I would say is that some staff will refuse to issue it, and some will be happy to issue it.

I don't think the rules are entirely clear, but it would be sensible to issue the excess if the ticket has not fully expired.

If the ticket has completely expired (either by date or final destination on return portion reached) then it should not be excessed as the customers contract is considered expired at that point. This is to stop someone picking up a used ticket and then doing a local journey as a zero (or negligible) fare excess on top of a longer distance journey. This argument does not apply when the customer has not yet started their return journey and is in possession of a wholly unused return portion.

That said, some staff will refuse it, so I would obtain the excess earlier if at all possible. Sheffield station are notorious for refusing excesses so 323235 was lucky to get it issued.

 

[GadgetMan]

As long as he made an effort to pay the excess before overriding then I believe it is ok.

The ticket isn't fully used as he hadn't made his return journey yet.