Overhead wire damge Near Retford 06/09 & 19/09

[gavin]

Major delays on the ECML this afternoon due to overhead wire damage near Retford all lines were shut just after 15:00 and remain closed

EDIT 17:09

@Virgin_TrainsEC

#VTECUpdate The line between #Retford and #Doncaster is unlikely to reopen today. Please use alternative routes or travel tomorrow. ^AD

 

[westv]

Another day, another overhead line problem on the ECML. :roll:

 

[Closet2405]

I notice that all of the lines are closed in the area, what's the diversionary route between Retford and Doncaster?

 

[38Cto15E]

I am sure that this topic has been done to death with the ECML, but you can't have more and more trains going faster and faster without having the proper infrastructure in place.

 

[30907]

I notice that all of the lines are closed in the area, what's the diversionary route between Retford and Doncaster?

Lincoln for HSTs or drags.

 

[Closet2405]

Lincoln for HSTs or drags.

I've seen that diversion taken before, but wondered if there was one further up the line. Presumably that means a number of units are stranded between Peterborough and Retford?

 

[backontrack]

I've seen that diversion taken before, but wondered if there was one further up the line. Presumably that means a number of units are stranded between Peterborough and Retford?

There's a connecting line between Retford and Retford Low Level, so they could have used that to access Lincoln and to maintain Retford calls.

Other than those units and the stoppers my guess is that the bulk of trains were diverted via Collingham.

 

[Adam0984]

Only Northern sign the Retford curve between the 2 lines. The diversion is via Gainsborough from Newark and round the Lincoln avoiding line then back on just south of Doncaster

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is the OLE headspans or portals at that location?

 

[gavin]

Is the OLE headspans or portals at that location?

Here's another image can you see from this?

 

[rdlover777]

Here's another image can you see from this?

Looks like the pantograph head was ripped off in this picture. Might be wrong

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Would the pantograph have been ripped off as a result of the OLE failure or would the OLE failure have more likely been caused by the pantograph malfunctioning?

 

[rdlover777]

Would the pantograph have been ripped off as a result of the OLE failure or would the OLE failure have more likely been caused by the pantograph malfunctioning?

Most likely the latter, but this is coming from someone who lives in a 3rd rail area

 

[66Yorks]

Where are the rescue loco's generally stabled on the ECML for this type of incident?

 

[Bald Rick]

Would the pantograph have been ripped off as a result of the OLE failure or would the OLE failure have more likely been caused by the pantograph malfunctioning?

In my experience, 'wires down' incidents are caused roughly in the following proportions:

1) OLE fault 50%
2) Train fault 30%
3) External issue 20%

1) includes weather related incidents where the OLE is within the design spec for that weather condition, but is usually component failure

2) is usually the pantograph, but can occasionally be other parts of the train

3) includes extreme weather outside the design spec for the OLE (about half of this category) but also things being thrown / dropped on to the wires, errant flora and fauna, stuff striking the OLE at LXs and a few other ransom things.

 

[marks87]

Where are the rescue loco's generally stabled on the ECML for this type of incident?

Kings Cross/Bounds Green, Doncaster, Newcastle and Edinburgh (Waverley or Craigentinny).

 

[edwin_m]

a few other ransom things.

Givvus the lolly or the catenary gets it?

 

[RochdalePioneers]

I was caught up in this today - an epic 6 hour trip home to Darlington from London. I was on the 14:30 which sat on P4 at Peterborough from 15:15. Only realised something was up when 10 minutes later the 14:35 Kings Cross - Leeds not booked to stop pulled onto P2. Anyway we sat and sat until we got caped with passengers advised to board 1S22 (15:00 KGX - Stirling) which would make an additional stop on P5 and run via Swinderby and Gainsborough.

Problem was Opentraintimes showed S22 parked on the down fast still at Huntingdon. Then the train was pulled from the departure board and a freight occupied P5 for a 20 minute spell. 1S24 (16:00 KGX - Aberdeen) was then announced as a special stop on P5 to run via Swinderby - and passed S22 at Huntingdon. The platform at Peterborough was wedged with multiple train loads. By now S22 was also moving behind S24, platform staff confirmed both would make stops at Peterborough.

S24 loaded past crush capacity and despite people standing down every aisle left people unable to board. And when it went in rolled S22 behind - with plenty of seats after departure which was delayed awaiting a pilot. A gentle run from Newark through Swinderby and Gainsborough before another special stop at Doncaster. Got off at Darlington with S22 running just the 195 late.

What really hit home was the lack of information from the train crews. The driver of 1N21 (my original 14:30 train) reported one controller in the office and a permanently engaged phone - which might explain the prolonged delay in getting S24 and S22 going via Pyewipe

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is the OLE headspans or portals at that location?

The pictures show just simple single-track cantilevers, used everywhere.
You normally only get headspans over multiple tracks, although I know of a stretch of 2-track headspans (Earlestown-Newton le Willows on the Chat Moss route).

 

[Mugby]

Forgive my ignorance in such matters but when the wires come down on top of a train, as shown in gavin's photograph, does the current cut off instantaneously?

 

[chrisdmadd]

Forgive my ignorance in such matters but when the wires come down on top of a train, as shown in gavin's photograph, does the current cut off instantaneously?

It will trip the overhead wires, they earth via the train and trip the breaker.

The controlling electrical control room operated will in most cases probably reset the breaker which will of course instantly trip again. Now they realise there's a problem and by this time probably get an emergency call via the GSM-R radio from the driver.

They then carry out an Emergency Swith Off and the current stays off until everything and everyone is clear and/or repaired.

Watered down version for you!

 

[SPADTrap]

It will trip the overhead wires, they earth via the train and trip the breaker.

The controlling electrical control room operated will in most cases probably reset the breaker which will of course instantly trip again. Now they realise there's a problem and by this time probably get an emergency call via the GSM-R radio from the driver.

They then carry out an Emergency Swith Off and the current stays off until everything and everyone is clear and/or repaired.

Watered down version for you!

Theoretical version you mean!

 

[Chrisgr31]

I was also caught up in this, coming from York to London. Caught the 15:00 ish train from York that actually left around 16.30 once thet found a driver that knew the diversion route. It wasnt that packed, believe significant numbers gave up or went via Sheffield.

We did Doncaster, Newark, Peterborough London arriving London 19:55 or so. Plenty of information from Crew, water was handed out and Kit Kats or Drifters (I think) on arrival at Kings Cross oh and leaflets on delay repay.

 

[southernyoshi]

How can this even happen, bringing the lines down like that?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

It will trip the overhead wires, they earth via the train and trip the breaker.

The controlling electrical control room operated will in most cases probably reset the breaker which will of course instantly trip again. Now they realise there's a problem and by this time probably get an emergency call via the GSM-R radio from the driver.

They then carry out an Emergency Swith Off and the current stays off until everything and everyone is clear and/or repaired.

Watered down version for you!

I must revise my approach to risk assessments - thanks.

From now on:-
1. Identify the serious hazard.
2. Identify who or what is at risk from that hazard.
3. Implement an effective protection mechanism to protect those at risk from the serious hazard.
4. When the protection operates thus protecting those at risk from the serious hazard, disable the protection just to see what happens.
5. Join the back of the queue seeking unpaid work in local charity shops.
6. Join an internet forum while waiting.

 

[Phil.]

How can this even happen, bringing the lines down like that?

Ask yourself why it's never happened on HS1.

ECML overheads are like the sounds a young bird makes...cheep cheap.

 

[Bald Rick]

Ask yourself why it's never happened on HS1.

ECML overheads are like the sounds a young bird makes...cheep cheap.

It has happened on HS1. Several times!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How can this even happen, bringing the lines down like that?

There are literally dozens of potential root causes.

 

[Sunset route]

I must revise my approach to risk assessments - thanks.

From now on:-
1. Identify the serious hazard.
2. Identify who or what is at risk from that hazard.
3. Implement an effective protection mechanism to protect those at risk from the serious hazard.
4. When the protection operates thus protecting those at risk from the serious hazard, disable the protection just to see what happens.
5. Join the back of the queue seeking unpaid work in local charity shops.
6. Join an internet forum while waiting.

The breakers are reset as most if the time the tripping will be a bird meeting its maker, so they are reset, if they hold all good well, if they instantly re-trip or won't hold then they stay off and the jobs stops while the reason is ascertained.

 

[Domh245]

I must revise my approach to risk assessments - thanks.

From now on:-
1. Identify the serious hazard.
2. Identify who or what is at risk from that hazard.
3. Implement an effective protection mechanism to protect those at risk from the serious hazard.
4. When the protection operates thus protecting those at risk from the serious hazard, disable the protection just to see what happens.
5. Join the back of the queue seeking unpaid work in local charity shops.
6. Join an internet forum while waiting.

Surely your step 4 is part of step 1, which would be "Identify what, if any, serious hazards exist". As Sunset route says, false positives can occur, and so long as the risk from this method of testing that the fault is genuinely safe (given it's use, I suspect that it is), then there is nothing wrong.

 

[Class315]

The Last Down Leeds train (1D36) from London 23:30 departed at 01:21, 121 minutes late.