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Overnight Sevices.

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Techniquest

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Hotel rooms have changed beyond all recognition over the last thirty years, and so have the expectations of the customer. A Travelodge is far, far better than the sort of squalor I had toe ndure in a small hotel as recently as 1993. I think the internet has helped to force up standards too.

I wouldn't have a clue on how much things have changed over 30 years, I've only used hotels on a regular basis for the last 6 or so years. Some of the hotels I've endured in mainland Europe beggar belief, quite the first such hotel made me wonder if overnight moves would have been a better idea! However I'm sure this was well documented in my trip report at the time, Techniquest's Epic Brussels Bash.

Yes I believe social media is responsible for a lot of change. No-one wants a bad review on TripAdvisor, for example, or for negative opinions spread over Twitter and Facebook.

The trouble is, that the sleepers are the amount reflect what was considered to be acceptable back in the late 1970's, when the stock was designed and, naturally, was base don what railway sleeping carriages had always been like. They do, therefore, compare unfavourably with the average modern hotel experience!

That's a fair comment, as is that the railway has had years to look at what people want these days from hotels. Free (and working! This is one of the most annoying things I've come across in my travels!) Wi-Fi in the room, a comfortable bed, not sharing the facilities with others, power sockets, a decent variety of TV channels being the main things I look for, as well as convenience for getting to/from the hotel. Oh, and peace and quiet. I've lost count of the amount of times I've had a room near a corridor door that bangs shut noisily. Getting woke up by such a thing at silly o'clock is as much fun as it sounds...

So maybe the railway should look at these things and adapt or just give up on the expensive provision of sleeper trains. Just think of all the improvements the annual subsidy for the Caledonian Insomniac (CI) could bring to the railway!

My experience has been variable. I have had some good journeys where I have slept well, and some where I have struggled to sleep at all. The trouble for me is, that as I can be a bit of an insomniac, I'm unsure whether to blame the fact that I am on a train and boucing over points for a failure to sleep - especially as when I have slept well the train has been just as bouncy as when I haven't!

It is a rather subjective thing, some people will have a perfect ride on the CI, others will have a rough ride and be put off. As you say, sometimes you can sleep fine even if you've bounced like a Pacer over every laddered junction on the WCML and other times not. For me, admittedly a couple of times I've done the Down Highland CI and eaten a big Burger King meal only an hour or less before departure, so getting to sleep is hard. It is at 2115 for me anyway, regardless of environment :lol:

I very rarely eat breakfast, so I don't particularly care whether the offering is tolerable or not. I will almost always wait until a bit later in the day before I eat anything, though a cup of tea always goes down well no matter what it tastes like!

Fair enough :) It would have to be coffee for me, anyone who's read my ALR trip reports will have seen I had a lot of the stuff during the week and fortnight! Looking back I wonder if there was a sub-conscientious reason for that...

Quite. I've managed two long distance coach journeys through the night and that is quite enough for me, thank you!

I've done a few overnight Megabus journeys, and a fair few after all-nighter bashes in London (really not fun) and some other daytime ones too. The last long overnight coach journey I had was London Victoria Coach Station to Dundee Bus Station with Megabus in December 2008. Reasonable to assume it's up the eastern side of the country, but no. Via Birmingham, Manchester, Preston, Glasgow and Perth. Due away from London at 2300, 25 minutes late starting off for whatever reason that was, so it didn't start well. Sleep hardly easily come across, all night I struggled with more than a bit of doss. With a long day ahead and an all-nighter in Edinburgh the next night, I was understandably less than amused. Finally arrived into Dundee at 1030-ish, which was much later than booked and I was lucky to have enough time to find the railway and get my trains to Inverness and onwards to Aberdeen and Edinburgh that I was booked on!

Only two bits of another one from London to Newcastle that I can remember that also started off later than booked by some way. One bit being that at one point the driver got on the radio and said to another driver he was doing really well for time (when he was over 20 minutes late) and that when we went past a sign for Watford Gap services (I still don't know where that is!) I observed that, if I had booked the last HST out of St Pancras I could easily have been north of Leicester by then and having a better journey. Oh, and I had next to no sleep heading north, until about an hour before arrival in Newcastle when I managed a very light bit of sleep.

Thankfully it's been some years since I did any lengthy coach journey, I won't be in a rush to do one again either!

It very much depends on the circumstances, but I am quite happy to use a sleeper train if it means avoiding getting up in the middle of the night to go to an airport instead.

This is a fair point. When I flew back from Dublin in June 2013, it was an early morning flight so was up at some ridiculous o'clock time, after going to sleep really late. Definitely not a fun experience, it's got to be said, at least not when accompanied by a seriously grumpy and over-tired woman! However with the lack of comfort (in my experience) on the sleeper resulting in minimal sleep makes the difference in flying or sleeper train very minimal for me. There's also the fact I love flying so it's really going to be up at silly o'clock for a flight for me sorry. You could shove a triple 37, or a double 56, on the CI all the way from London to Inverness and I'd still be tempted to turn it down!
 
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Greenback

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I wouldn't have a clue on how much things have changed over 30 years

In the late 1970's en suites were considered a luxury experience, as was being allowed in to your accommodation between 9 and 5!

OK, that applied more to B&B's and guest houses then 'proper' hotels, but some of the latter also expected that you would be out alld ay and wouldn't want to come to and fro.

This continued to the provision of such things as TV's. The prevailing view seemed to be that a TV in the room was unnecessary, as the room would only be used for sleeping and changing clothes. The rest of the time you would be out, eating, sightseeing or on business. And there was a TV room, if you were lucky, where guests could fight over which of the three channels was on!

Although not a documentary, Fawlty Towers was inspired by real life!
 

anme

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Must admit I never switch on the TV in a hotel room. I like TV rooms - actually a good place to meet people! To get back on topic, the same is true for the bar coach on a sleeper train.
 

Techniquest

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In the late 1970's en suites were considered a luxury experience, as was being allowed in to your accommodation between 9 and 5!

OK, that applied more to B&B's and guest houses then 'proper' hotels, but some of the latter also expected that you would be out alld ay and wouldn't want to come to and fro.

This continued to the provision of such things as TV's. The prevailing view seemed to be that a TV in the room was unnecessary, as the room would only be used for sleeping and changing clothes. The rest of the time you would be out, eating, sightseeing or on business. And there was a TV room, if you were lucky, where guests could fight over which of the three channels was on!

Although not a documentary, Fawlty Towers was inspired by real life!

Things really have changed then! Can't comment on Fawlty Towers, never watched it.

So glad I wasn't around in the 70s, seems such a backwards time compared to the modern day! Mind you, I'm sure the next generation will say the same about it in 20, 30 or 40 years too.
 

Greenback

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Your'e probably right! I was stilla child in the 70's, so perhaps things weren't actually as bad as I remember. The British hospitality industry (including restaurants) was not well regarded internationalyl though.

The sleepers were quite comfortable compared to what was offered in the 1970's, though, however accurate my memory. As they are now, they simply don't provide the modern traveller with what they expect. This is why I feel that overnight services have to have a radical rethink, so as to provide a wider range of accommodation. I hope we can maintian a budget level of overnight service while bringing in more upmarket premium cabins with prices to match.
 

Gordon

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As recently as 1991 I stayed in a French hotel where the toilet was behind a curtain in the room!
 

Greenback

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That's France for you!

Though I must say that their cheap hotel chains do offer tremendous value.
 

reb0118

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Looks like the last of the CNL sleepers with restaurant/bistro cars are having these removed from April 1st. Not good ~ esp. as I am planning a trip involving the Copenhagen - Amsterdam service. If you are on a train from 18:45 to 10:00 the next day you do expect a decent level of service with regard to food & drink.

Another nail in the coffin for overnight trains! :cry:
 
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