Oxfordshire Buses and Coaches

[goldisgood]

I couldn't find a thread for anything Oxfordshire related so I thought I'd create one.

A quite interesting development has happened in the X90/Oxford Tube 'coach war'. Over the last few years the services have been cut back a little bit, particularly the X90 which after next week will only run every 30 minutes, however alongside this Oxford Bus have massively cut their fares. I'm unsure how this move will work -
X90 Fares:

• Adult Single £8 (previously £15)
• Adult 3 Months Period Return £14 (previously £20)
• 12 Trip Bundle £72
• Group 3 Months Period Return £40 (previously £45)
• Child Single £4 (previously £7.50)
• Child 3 Months Period Return £7 (previously £10)
• Young Person Single £7 (previously £11)
• Young Person 3 Months Period Return £12 (previously £15)

Oxford Tube Fares:

So here's the thing - the X90 runs half as often as the Oxford Tube, but for lots of trips is considerably cheaper. Will the reduced frequency but reduced price mean that people switch to the X90, will the Oxford Tube fares be reduced to combat these reduced fares (note that students go for an £10 return anyway) or will this be the last straw in the death of the X90? Oxford Tube runs more coaches for the whole of the day, and has a 24/7 service. If the OT fares are lowered, even to be a little bit more than the X90, I think this could be the last straw for the X90. But if the OT fares aren't lowered, will the cheaper tickets persuade more people to use the X90 and eventually lead to the service building back up? What does everyone else think?

 

[Lynford1976]

It's worth pointing out that the changes to the coach service are in part due to improved rail links between London and Oxford. Primarily the new Chiltern Railways service, but also the GWR electrification, have had an impact.

 

[James H]

They've been selling cheap tickets for the X90 via Snap too

 

[radamfi]

£19 return is not very competitive when compared to an off-peak train return ticket with railcard (£17.55 day return, £20.65 day return including Travelcard or £19.15 month return). It is only really worth getting the coach at peak hours or for travel to/from intermediate points.

 

[goldisgood]

£19 return is not very competitive when compared to an off-peak train return ticket with railcard (£17.55 day return, £20.65 day return including Travelcard or £19.15 month return). It is only really worth getting the coach at peak hours or for travel to/from intermediate points.

Will a traveller buying a one off return often have a railcard? Likely not. The cheapest off-peak day return is £26.60, within a month is £29. Anytime day return is £64.60, and for peak returns on other days you have to buy several singles.
Regular commuters will have 12-trip tickets which work out cheaper at £12.50 for a return or period tickets (£8.29/day/week, £6.79/day/month, £5.38/day/13 week) which are cheaper.
On top of this, any connecting Stagecoach buses which run along most key routes in the city (Woodstock, Banbury, Cowley, Iffley and Botley have at least 4 buses an hour from Stagecoach) are free with the 'Tube Connector' ticket.

 

[Megafuss]

Think they have lost the turn up and go market. It's a clear play for the Megabus markets but still doesn't beat Megabus on the designated OT trips. I can still buy a single ticket from Oxford to London tomorrow for £5.25

 

[overthewater]

Maybe it should be pulled and more attention place on its Airport routes?

 

[higthomas]

Don't forget that Oxford station is rather inconvenient for the majority of the city who live east of Magdalene bridge.

I think the biggest thing has been Oxford Parkway taking away much of the car driver trade who used to use Thornhill.

But I'm sad to see the coaches doing less well, the turn up and go nature of the tube has always been the winner though. And the 24/7 (although the coaches around 3 really aren't that full, even on a Saturday (

 

[goldisgood]

A little update on the fares, comments from passengers and what I think...
A look through Twitter comments seems to suggest that lots of regular commuters will be switching to Oxford Tube once their passes expire, but some occasional users have said that they will use the X90 now - I wouldn't be surprised if there are fare increases and possibly withdrawal within the next 18 months.

"Great, so the plan is more passengers and fewer buses. Wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of commuters switch to @Oxford_Tube over the next couple of months."
"this will be a disaster for early commuters. I will be switching to the oxford tube #LetDown"
"The cut in the early services to and from London is a deal breaker for me. Won't be renewing my season ticket."
"So you're decreasing your service drastically that will only really affect regular commuters but you're not decreasing the monthly fee? Christ you really want the x90 to go out of business don't you. I too will be leaving for the tube."
"I have done. I am furious but hey you don’t really care so I will use Oxford tube once my multi trip tickets run out. Great customer service NOT"
"Thanks. I may be a user of the service on an occasional basis from next year."

On top of this, for the next few months Oxford Tube are offering discounted 'festive fares' which are £1 higher than the new X90 fares. This means the tube is a little more expensive for a lot more buses for most ticket options. They seem to be advertising that they have more than the X90 too...

"More departures, more seats and more choice than the X90 and from this Sunday we've even lowering our fares. What better reason to travel with Oxford Tube this Winter."

"Reduced fares are valid from Sunday 28th October 2018 until Sunday 13th January 2019, excluding Christmas Day (25th December 2018)."

You get the picture. I'm pretty sure that more coaches will be needed for Oxford Tube if these comments are an indicator of things to come - these people won't be the only people switching, and the coaches can't cope at the best of times currently. Could they possibly get some Panoramas to replace a few of the Van Hools and to expand the fleet on peak buses? They can take 10 more passengers which would help a bit, as I
can foresee issues with loading.

Unrelated to this, OBC 307 (an Enviro 400H) caught fire a few days ago - these buses seem to be pretty fire prone, with another SC one catching fire a while back, and quite a few in Manchester amongst other places.

 

[goldisgood]

Local reports indicate that Thames Travel will be moving from their current main garage in Wallingford to the current Weavaway garage in Didcot which will be shared between the two operators from March. I assume this will see some service changes with buses running from different garages.

 

[nesw]

This move was expected as I believe that Go Ahead own the current Weavaway garage as it was part of the Tom Tappin business taken over last year.

 

[jay38a]

The Tappins coach business which is part of Weaverway is a separate business from the sightseeing buses which prior to Go Ahead take over was still owned by the Tappin family.

This move was expected as I believe that Go Ahead own the current Weavaway garage as it was part of the Tom Tappin business taken over last year.

 

[Mwanesh]

Local reports indicate that Thames Travel will be moving from their current main garage in Wallingford to the current Weavaway garage in Didcot which will be shared between the two operators from March. I assume this will see some service changes with buses running from different garages.

They also use the Reading buses depot not sure for how many buses.

 

[nesw]

The Tappins coach business which is part of Weaverway is a separate business from the sightseeing buses which prior to Go Ahead take over was still owned by the Tappin family.

Correct but the sightseeing business/Tappin family also owned the Didcot garage and this passed to Go Ahead when they acquired the business.

 

[overthewater]

Maybe there could get some better managers in the place..

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Maybe there could get some better managers in the place..

Sorry but got to take issue here.

You live in Scotland - how do you know what Thames Travel are like, other than trawling their Twitter feed? The reason things look bad is that they do experience issues and they are very good at reporting them!

I have used them and found them to be a decent firm.

 

[Surreyman]

Some info (probably out of date, so happy to be corrected)
Thames Travel
The Wallingford PVR unknown but Operating licence is for 30.
TT out of Oxford - Operating licence = 13 (thats in addition to the separate Oxford licence).
TT out of Reading buses - Operating licence = 4.
TT out of Wantage/Grove - Operating licence = 3.
TT out of Bicester - Operating licence = 5.
As I say this is probably out of date - but if the current TT fleet is 52 vehicles, it's likely that 30 or less operate out of Wallingford.
Would assume that if TT move Wallingford Allocation to Tappins Didcot depot, they would have to apply for new separate Operators licence for that site.
Weavaway/Tappins had an Operators licence of (I think) - 50 for the Collett-Didcot site but an actual allocation considerably less.
As Weavaway are currently sharing the New Greenham park site with Reading Buses, then sharing the Didcot site makes a lot of sense.

 

[goldisgood]

Sorry but got to take issue here.

You live in Scotland - how do you know what Thames Travel are like, other than trawling their Twitter feed? The reason things look bad is that they do experience issues and they are very good at reporting them!

I have used them and found them to be a decent firm.

Lots of people do dislike them, and most would describe them as acceptable at best. They are pretty 'behind' the other operators in lots of ways, and things look bad because, well, they are pretty bad!
Frequent breakdowns, although reported, do give them a negative look - my route has been cancelled once in over 3 years of using it, whilst their routes often have daily cancellations.
I don't want to make a generalisation, but some of the staff aren't great. I've had a driver shouting at me and a young woman for using a request bus which was timetabled. Lots of the drivers aren't that knowledgable and don't seem to know the operating area that well, again, a contrast to the drivers on my route who are regulars and know most of the regular passengers.
Now, their fleet profile. Their fleet is pretty much all castoffs from Oxford, with 3 new buses from earlier this year and a few dealer stock Streetlites from 2 years back. Again, a contrast to other operators which have lots of new buses.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Lots of people do dislike them, and most would describe them as acceptable at best. They are pretty 'behind' the other operators in lots of ways, and things look bad because, well, they are pretty bad!
Frequent breakdowns, although reported, do give them a negative look - my route has been cancelled once in over 3 years of using it, whilst their routes often have daily cancellations.
I don't want to make a generalisation, but some of the staff aren't great. I've had a driver shouting at me and a young woman for using a request bus which was timetabled. Lots of the drivers aren't that knowledgable and don't seem to know the operating area that well, again, a contrast to the drivers on my route who are regulars and know most of the regular passengers.
Now, their fleet profile. Their fleet is pretty much all castoffs from Oxford, with 3 new buses from earlier this year and a few dealer stock Streetlites from 2 years back. Again, a contrast to other operators which have lots of new buses.

And if that is YOUR personal experience, that is fair comment. I’ve not found that in my experience but that is the point.... It’s experience and NOT proffering judgment from afar.

 

[W-on-Sea]

One thing that's not been mentioned (and it must be said, not widely advertised, either) is that OBC now make available cheap tickets, via SN-AP, for advance purchase tickets for certain journeys on the X90, akin to the Megabus tickets on the Oxford Tube: but whereas the Megabus tickets for this route start (I think) at £1.50, those on SN-AP start at £5.

But in practice, the only reasons I can think of to favour the X90 over the Tube are (a) for users who have an annual pass also valid on OBC/TT services who live in areas served only by them, and not by Stagecoach (and I can't imagine that commuting into Oxford and then onto a coach to London would be an attractive option for many of these); (b) those who wish to go to destinations in London (i.e. Marylebone/Baker St) served by the X90 but not by the Tube; (c) those who prefer the vehicles or their ambience.

As for Thames Travel, I commute on them regularly, and while they are not perfect, I would say that they are very much improved on how they were a few years ago. Above all, they now have timetables that mostly work (maybe because they include a lot of slack, on certain routes) - rather more so, in fact, that the few remaining Stagecoach services in southern Oxfordshire/old North Berkshire. Yes, the luxury of their buses is mostly not close to Stagecoach Gold standard, but almost all their buses have highbacked seats, at least. And it's been ages since I've been on one that's taken an incorrect route, as used to happen fairly frequently....

 

[overthewater]

I love you too.... It strange GW makes no ref to the user so how does Statto know who he talking about? sounds like someone is downright ignorant & full of bull themselfs...

I will never understand those types of people there hate people and still have to complain about them it's like why do you care?

It was a tongue in cheek joke, its missing that smiley I see. You add one and there don't always appear. Lets all agree Thames travel has improved but still needs work.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Ahem.... couple of things

1. I did quote you in my post at 10:51 so no shock that Statto may make such a connection
2. Your quote was "Maybe there could get some better managers in the place.." but why would you say that? What prompted that? Why the big joke (if that is what it was)?

Confusing

 

[overthewater]

TGW you can happily question why I dont like or trust Thames travel or First operations in Stoke, without having to deal with said operators. You make a proper effort, but my gut say there not great, which is a shame because Thames travel should be doing alot better overall. I will praise companies that should get praise, I can fully understand why you asked and say " even if the evidence says something is crap" you shouldn't add your two cent within seeing it first hand. I do believer managers are questionable, and there follow same pattern as other elsewhere.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

TGW you can happily question why I dont like or trust Thames travel or First operations in Stoke, without having to deal with said operators. You make a proper effort, but my gut say there not great, which is a shame because Thames travel should be doing alot better overall. I will praise companies that should get praise, I can fully understand why you asked and say " even if the evidence says something is crap" you shouldn't add your two cent within seeing it first hand. I do believer managers are questionable, and there follow same pattern as other elsewhere.

Gut feeling? What next - seaweed?

The fact is that you are sat 350 miles away looking at a Twitter feed. You don't have any experience of the operation yet seem to be able to proffer a view with no actual evidence. If Twitter feeds were a true accurate barometer, then perhaps you might have a point but they aren't and you don't. Based on that, then you'd have thought Wessex were a better operator than Thames!

Managers are fallible but that isn't why I've challenged your view. I know we're in a post truth world, and people have the right to have opinions. However, you should do so based on something better than "gut feeling".

 

[goldisgood]

Another OBC bus fire. I can't identify the exact bus on fire from what I've seen, but it is one of the Enviro 400 bodied Scanias or hybrids. Image from the Oxford Mail.

 

[J at oxf]

I doubt this is the Dimise of the X90. I use it often over the OT but even with their lower frequency they still have plenty of people on them. Maybe not as busy as OT (that’s one reason I prefer them) and I don’t know how many seats have to be filled for a profit but I’d be surprised if this was the beginning to the end of the X90.

 

[goldisgood]

I doubt this is the Dimise of the X90. I use it often over the OT but even with their lower frequency they still have plenty of people on them. Maybe not as busy as OT (that’s one reason I prefer them) and I don’t know how many seats have to be filled for a profit but I’d be surprised if this was the beginning to the end of the X90.

Where are the people using it from though? I've seen a grand total of 2 (in total!) on the X90 between Gloucester Green and Queens Lane in seeing several services every day at both peak times, and these passengers were on the sn-ap service. The OT isn't much better, but they do seem to have passengers from Gloucester Green. I normally see at least 5 people on each service, with around 15-20 from Queens Lane. If anyone knows how loadings are up through Headington it would be interesting to compare.

 

[PeterC]

Where are the people using it from though? I've seen a grand total of 2 (in total!) on the X90 between Gloucester Green and Queens Lane in seeing several services every day at both peak times, and these passengers were on the sn-ap service. The OT isn't much better, but they do seem to have passengers from Gloucester Green. I normally see at least 5 people on each service, with around 15-20 from Queens Lane. If anyone knows how loadings are up through Headington it would be interesting to compare.

I have never bothered to look at the loadings when I use the 400 but from what I have seen services are routinely picking up more passengers at St Giles and at Thornhill.

 

[goldisgood]

Recent changes to the Oxford 'Zero Emission Zone' have seen the requirements change. By sometime in 2020, all buses operating in the city must be Euro 6, with buses to be fully electric by 2035.
Funding for 83 buses to be upgraded to Euro 6 has been confirmed from 2017-2019, with all upgraded buses OBC's I think, and I'd hope that Stagecoach will see quite a lot of new buses for at least the S1/S2/S3/S5 (Around 35 buses for all of these routes) and some standard buses to possibly replace the hybrids and definately the single decker on the 3A which is full and standing at peak times. I won't go into detail of what could happen, but I'm hoping/assuming there will be investment to bring the fleet .
On another topic, both companies look to be having some sort of issues with the fleet. As per usual, the Wantage allocation is slightly mixed with at least 1 Scania at the outstation and probably a few standard MMCs, whilst a hybrid was spotted on the 8 alongside a Scania on the 3.
OBC's hs been slightly worse due to their branding, with the city2 MMC, a city35 hybrid, a Thames Travel scania and various Citaros (one I believe city6 branded) spotted on the 5 this year. The other routes have had more consistent allocations, but all of the Streetdeck routes have seen at least 1 bus per day on the route not being a streetdeck, with Scanias on the 3 and 8, MMCs and Enviro 400Hs on park and rides and pretty much anything on the 5.

 

[goldisgood]

Stagecoach's 11 is due to be withdrawn from the end of April according to the Oxford Mail. Most of the route is served by the S1 or 233, except for Freeland which is served by a community bus and part of Eynsham which will be left unserved. There is nothing from Stagecoach yet and I can't find anything on VOSA yet.
https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/1...1-bus-between-oxford-and-witney/?ref=mrb&lp=4