Oyster queries

[GuyBarry]

I rarely visit London, and on previous occasions when I've travelled I've bought a one-day travelcard when I get there. However, I'm planning a journey this time where it looks as though an Oyster card may be better value. Two questions:

(1) What's the difference between the Visitor Oyster card and the normal Oyster card? From TfL's publicity it looks as though the Visitor Oyster costs £3 (non-refundable), whereas the Oyster has a £5 refundable deposit but no charge. What additional benefits do you get for your £3?

(2) Is it better to order in advance or pick one up on the day? Apparently the Visitor Oyster has to be ordered in advance, but the normal Oyster can be picked up at certain locations. I'll be arriving at Waterloo mainline station, which according to the National Rail website doesn't sell Oyster cards, but can I buy one at the tube station?

 

[CheapAndNerdy]

I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable about Oyster, but if you have a contactless debit card then you have everything you need to travel on London's public transport system.

I think the only benefit of the Oyster visitor card is you get a souvenir card with a nice design on it, that you can treasure as a keepsake and pass down through the generations.

 

[GuyBarry]

I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable about Oyster, but if you have a contactless debit card then you have everything you need to travel on London's public transport system.

I don't have one, sorry. I'm finding Oyster quite complicated enough!

 

[Busaholic]

With an Oyster card, each journey will cost you less than the equivalent cash fare, and I'm including contactless debit cards as cash, as you can't even use the latter on buses anymore. You will get a daily 'cap' similar to the Travelcard maximum, but note the off-peak version of the above has been ditched, so its price has increased considerably for anyone travelling after 09.30. You will also have to decide how much you want/need to put on your Oyster, as you don't want to be caught with not having enough. To be honest, if you are nervous about it, a Travelcard might be a better option for your peace of mind, because there are certain other pitfalls with Oyster, mostly concerning being charged with going into the central zone when you haven't because you didn't know about the pink oyster readers on the Underground, Tramlink at Wimbledon ( I got caught with that - very expensive!) etc etc whereas with a Travelcard so long as you don't overshoot your zone validity it's easy peasy.

 

[bluegoblin7]

(1) What's the difference between the Visitor Oyster card and the normal Oyster card? From TfL's publicity it looks as though the Visitor Oyster costs £3 (non-refundable), whereas the Oyster has a £5 refundable deposit but no charge. What additional benefits do you get for your £3?

The "normal" Oyster cards can be registered online and thus protected if they are lost or stolen. If you have railcards these can also be loaded on to give you a discount (Ticket office or via staff interaction at the POMs [Passenger Operated Machines, think TVM]). The deposit is refundable if you decide that you no longer want to use the card, again either via the ticket office or at the POMs (self-service).

Day-to-day, though, they work in exactly the same way.

(2) Is it better to order in advance or pick one up on the day? Apparently the Visitor Oyster has to be ordered in advance, but the normal Oyster can be picked up at certain locations. I'll be arriving at Waterloo mainline station, which according to the National Rail website doesn't sell Oyster cards, but can I buy one at the tube station?

You can buy an Oyster card at any London Underground ticket office or POM, or order them online to be delivered to your home address. The Visitor Oyster card does have to be ordered in advance and cannot be obtained once you are in London.

My advice would be to order yourself a *regular* Oyster card online; the extra £2 offers you the additional protection of protecting your card if it is lost or stolen, and you can get it back when you leave if you wish (Although Oyster cards don't expire.). You can also then get straight off your train at Waterloo and breeze straight past all of the queues in the LU ticket halls with your Oyster card all ready to go.

Any questions, give me a shout. You will save *a lot* of money by using an Oyster card in favour of a Travelcard (particularly if you will be rarely straying outside of Zones 1 & 2), and a tourist will rarely need to worry about journey limits or pink validators for their journeys.
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With an Oyster card, each journey will cost you less than the equivalent cash fare, and I'm including contactless debit cards as cash, as you can't even use the latter on buses anymore. You will get a daily 'cap' similar to the Travelcard maximum, but note the off-peak version of the above has been ditched, so its price has increased considerably for anyone travelling after 09.30.

Misinformation isn't particularly helpful. Contactless debit or credit cards cap at *exactly the same* level as an Oyster card, with the added benefit of Monday-Sunday capping which an Oyster card does not have, so I'm not sure why you are treating them the same as cash. The only downside to Contactless cards (Speaking as a member of staff, rather than someone who uses one!) is that if you *do* have a problem with an unresolved journey or such like, this can only be resolved by your bank, rather than at a ticket office or POM.

As for the daily caps - all of the off-peak caps bar Z1-4+ remained, which in itself is irrelevant as the majority are being reinstated in the near future (I can elaborate on more later on, although I think there's a thread here somewhere.)

 

[GuyBarry]

The system has logged me out yet again. I just spent some time typing a comparison of cash, Oyster and Travelcard fares.

I'll try again in the morning, but I find this aspect of the forum extremely annoying.

 

[Kite159]

If you are making a big post, might I suggest typing it into Word, then copy/paste it over? That way if the forum throws a hissy fit and logs you out, you wouldn't have lost anything as the data will still be on your document.

 

[MikeWh]

Misinformation isn't particularly helpful. Contactless debit or credit cards cap at *exactly the same* level as an Oyster card, with the added benefit of Monday-Sunday capping which an Oyster card does not have, so I'm not sure why you are treating them the same as cash. The only downside to Contactless cards (Speaking as a member of staff, rather than someone who uses one!) is that if you *do* have a problem with an unresolved journey or such like, this can only be resolved by your bank, rather than at a ticket office or POM.

As for the daily caps - all of the off-peak caps bar Z1-4+ remained, which in itself is irrelevant as the majority are being reinstated in the near future (I can elaborate on more later on, although I think there's a thread here somewhere.)

It was going so well until you started talking about banks. Getting your bank to dispute the charge because of an unresolved journey is something of a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Call the oyster helpdesk from the next day and they can process any adjustment. If you do it early enough you might only get the correct charge levied, otherwise you'll get a refund.

And as for caps. Zone 1-2 and 1-3 daily caps are less than the old off-peak caps which is why tourists are rarely affected by the changes. Zones 1-4, 1-5 and 1-6 caps are progressively more expensive but the old (slightly adjusted) off-peak caps are NOT being re-introduced. People who regularly exceed the new "off-peak cap" will be entitled to automatic refunds at the end of each month. Regularly means 2 days in a week or 8 days in 4 weeks. It is designed to compensate part-time workers rather than leisure travellers, although the latter may qualify if they use a card on two days (eg Sat and Sun).

 

[bluegoblin7]

It was going so well until you started talking about banks. Getting your bank to dispute the charge because of an unresolved journey is something of a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Call the oyster helpdesk from the next day and they can process any adjustment. If you do it early enough you might only get the correct charge levied, otherwise you'll get a refund.

Only going by the advice we've been told to give customers! Certainly if the Oyster helpdesk can make adjustments then that's great, but on the front line we've been told that it can only be resolved by the bank. I'll certainly alter my advice to customers but, as I mentioned, I've never had cause to use contactless to travel myself...

And as for caps. Zone 1-2 and 1-3 daily caps are less than the old off-peak caps which is why tourists are rarely affected by the changes. Zones 1-4, 1-5 and 1-6 caps are progressively more expensive but the old (slightly adjusted) off-peak caps are NOT being re-introduced. People who regularly exceed the new "off-peak cap" will be entitled to automatic refunds at the end of each month. Regularly means 2 days in a week or 8 days in 4 weeks. It is designed to compensate part-time workers rather than leisure travellers, although the latter may qualify if they use a card on two days (eg Sat and Sun).

Again - defer to your greater knowledge on the subject, and apologies for my own misinformation! The subject of caps was actually something that came up on the dateline at work today, and the understanding with my colleagues was as I had mentioned above; again, something I'll take on board, and I'll certainly be re-reading the information that has been made available to us...

 

[MikeWh]

Only going by the advice we've been told to give customers! Certainly if the Oyster helpdesk can make adjustments then that's great, but on the front line we've been told that it can only be resolved by the bank. I'll certainly alter my advice to customers but, as I mentioned, I've never had cause to use contactless to travel myself...

Well they've sorted out issues for me both during the trial and since. I guess the important thing for station staff is that nothing can be done at the station because nothing is written to the card itself.

Again - defer to your greater knowledge on the subject, and apologies for my own misinformation! The subject of caps was actually something that came up on the dateline at work today, and the understanding with my colleagues was as I had mentioned above; again, something I'll take on board, and I'll certainly be re-reading the information that has been made available to us...

No worries. Lots of people are confused about what is actually happening.

 

[GuyBarry]

Any questions, give me a shout. You will save *a lot* of money by using an Oyster card in favour of a Travelcard (particularly if you will be rarely straying outside of Zones 1 & 2), and a tourist will rarely need to worry about journey limits or pink validators for their journeys.

This is the planned itinerary. The main aims of the visit are to visit Leadenhall Market, visit the King's Cross development, travel on the HS1 "bullet train", travel on the Thames cable car and (if time) travel on the Thames Clipper ferry. As far as I can tell the costs are as follows:

(1) Waterloo –> Bank (for Leadenhall Market) - Waterloo & City line
Fare: £4.80 cash, £2.30 Oyster, free with Travelcard

(2) Bank –> King’s Cross St Pancras - Northern line
Fare: £4.80 cash, £2.30 Oyster, free with Travelcard

(3) St Pancras International –> Stratford International - Southeastern
Fare: £6 cash, no discounts

(4) Stratford International –> Royal Victoria - DLR
Fare: £4.80 cash, £1.50 Oyster, free with Travelcard

(5) Royal Victoria –> North Greenwich - Emirates Air Line
Fare: £4.50 cash, £3.40 Oyster, £3.40 with Travelcard

(6) North Greenwich –> London Eye (for Waterloo) - Thames Clipper
Fare: £7.15 cash, £6.44 Oyster, £4.75 with Travelcard

Total cash fare: £32.05
Total Oyster fare: £21.94 (plus £5 refundable deposit)
Total Travelcard fare (including £12 fee): £26.15

Is this right? Can it be done any cheaper?

 

[telstarbox]

Which station are you starting from in the morning to get to Waterloo?

 

[GuyBarry]

Bath Spa - the tickets are already booked. (It was cheaper than going to Paddington, and neither of us has travelled that route before.) Arriving Waterloo 1149 and departing 1920.

 

[Dent]

Only going by the advice we've been told to give customers! Certainly if the Oyster helpdesk can make adjustments then that's great, but on the front line we've been told that it can only be resolved by the bank.

Do the banks even have the necessary access to view and alter journey histories held by TfL? I certainly wouldn't expect bank staff to be trained in all the complexities of the transport fare structure in London, even if they had the necessary access to do anything about it.

It is my understanding that the only involvement the banks have is being handed a request for the total at the end of each day.

 

[Busaholic]

Misinformation isn't particularly helpful. Contactless debit or credit cards cap at *exactly the same* level as an Oyster card, with the added benefit of Monday-Sunday capping which an Oyster card does not have, so I'm not sure why you are treating them the same as cash. The only downside to Contactless cards (Speaking as a member of staff, rather than someone who uses one!) is that if you *do* have a problem with an unresolved journey or such like, this can only be resolved by your bank, rather than at a ticket office or POM.

As for the daily caps - all of the off-peak caps bar Z1-4+ remained, which in itself is irrelevant as the majority are being reinstated in the near future (I can elaborate on more later on, although I think there's a thread here somewhere.)

Where did I misinform the poser of the original question? Each individual journey made will be charged less with Oyster than with cash (where available) or contactless card. A cap may apply to exactly the same level as with Oyster in the case of a contactless card, but only if you use the SAME card for all your journeys: many people have access to several contactless cards and may not notice which one they are using it is so easy just to flash it. The weekly capping is hardly relevant to someone coming to London for the day. Using cash, of course, no cap will apply.

I only replied to the question because it seemed none of the experts were going to, being on the neglected Underground sub-forum,and also because it seemed the questioner was a bit nervous about Oyster and, possibly, technology generally, and in this regard I could sympathise being of the same mindset!

If I have misinformed, I am truly penitent, and my self-flagellation will follow soonest.

 

[Dent]

Where did I misinform the poser of the original question? Each individual journey made will be charged less with Oyster than with cash (where available) or contactless card.

That is the misinformation. Each journey will be charged the same with Oyster as with a contactless card, not less.

 

[GuyBarry]

I only replied to the question because it seemed none of the experts were going to, being on the neglected Underground sub-forum

Should I ask on a different sub-forum then?

and also because it seemed the questioner was a bit nervous about Oyster and, possibly, technology generally, and in this regard I could sympathise being of the same mindset!

Indeed. I've never had any reason to use Oyster before, or indeed any contactless technology, so it's all a bit of a mystery to me. I really need an idiot's guide...

 

[Hadders]

This is the planned itinerary. The main aims of the visit are to visit Leadenhall Market, visit the King's Cross development, travel on the HS1 "bullet train", travel on the Thames cable car and (if time) travel on the Thames Clipper ferry. As far as I can tell the costs are as follows:

(1) Waterloo –> Bank (for Leadenhall Market) - Waterloo & City line
Fare: £4.80 cash, £2.30 Oyster, free with Travelcard

(2) Bank –> King’s Cross St Pancras - Northern line
Fare: £4.80 cash, £2.30 Oyster, free with Travelcard

(3) St Pancras International –> Stratford International - Southeastern
Fare: £6 cash, no discounts

(4) Stratford International –> Royal Victoria - DLR
Fare: £4.80 cash, £1.50 Oyster, free with Travelcard

(5) Royal Victoria –> North Greenwich - Emirates Air Line
Fare: £4.50 cash, £3.40 Oyster, £3.40 with Travelcard

(6) North Greenwich –> London Eye (for Waterloo) - Thames Clipper
Fare: £7.15 cash, £6.44 Oyster, £4.75 with Travelcard

Total cash fare: £32.05
Total Oyster fare: £21.94 (plus £5 refundable deposit)
Total Travelcard fare (including £12 fee): £26.15

Is this right? Can it be done any cheaper?

Unless my maths is wrong the travelcard at £12 plus £3.40 for the Emirates Airline and £4.75 for the Thames Clipper is £20.15

You can buy a travecard upon arrival at Waterloo, at Bath Spa before you depart, or potentially on board from the guard (most guards are willing to sell them if you ask nicely).

Just realised I haven't included the £6 cost of the HS1 journey

If you want to use Oyster I'd just get a 'normal' one - the credit never expires and you can keep it in case you make another trip to London.

 

[Busaholic]

That is the misinformation. Each journey will be charged the same with Oyster as with a contactless card, not less.

I eat my words. I obviously over-relied on the generalised statement on you.gov website that in almost all cases an Oyster fare was charged at a lower rate than other methods of payment. Only when you start looking at all the detail do you (or me, anyway) realise how wrong you can be. Perhaps it'd be better not to stray onto card clash, either.

 

[londonbridge]

That is the misinformation. Each journey will be charged the same with Oyster as with a contactless card, not less.

Each journey may be charged the same, but the daily cap may well be different depending on whether you use Oyster or contactless and the precise journeys you make.

 

[simple simon]

Since you won't be travelling outside of Zone 3 and all journeys will be after 9.30am so your fares should be capped at the off-peak rate of £7.50. This applies to both Oyster and contactless. If you travel on the trains between 4pm and 7pm then some of the Oyster / contactless fares may be higher but this will not matter once you have reached the fares cap.

A Travelcard is safer however, as you cannot suddenly find yourself being saddled with extra costs because of a failed (or *forgotten) touch in / out. Plus you get a paper souvenir of your visit to London.

*Most DLR stations are open with freestanding card readers, certainly this applies to Stratford International and Royal Victoria.

Simon

 

[Dent]

Each journey may be charged the same, but the daily cap may well be different depending on whether you use Oyster or contactless and the precise journeys you make.

Which daily caps are different for Oyster and Contactless?

The fare tables don't even make a distinction for daily caps, they have one column under the heading of "Pay As You Go".

 

[londonbridge]

Firstly for reference, I have virtually abandoned Oyster and always use my contactless card these days. I had a couple of days where I was expecting to be charged £10.90 for zones 1-5, but instead I was capped at £10.60. I then had a day where I was charged the full £10.90. I consulted our resident Oyster expert who determined that, for two mixed mode journeys between zones 1 and 5, plus two bus journeys, I was being capped at the zones 1-2 rate and then charged for two extension journeys from zones 3-5. However on the day I was charged £10.90 I had made a third journey outside zones 1-2, so zones 1-5 then became the cheapest appropriate cap. Mike also confirmed that I would have been charged the full £10.90 if I'd used Oyster instead of contactless. Basically it's because with contactless the back office can look at your individual journey history and determine the best combination of caps and extension journeys, whereas with Oyster it can only cap according to the zones used.

 

[MikeWh]

Which daily caps are different for Oyster and Contactless?

Short answer: None. What's different is which cap might be used depending on your actual journeys that day.

Longer answer: see londonbridge's post above.

 

[GuyBarry]

Since you won't be travelling outside of Zone 3 and all journeys will be after 9.30am so your fares should be capped at the off-peak rate of £7.50.

I don't understand this. Waterloo, Bank and King's Cross St Pancras are all in Zone 1.

 

[Deerfold]

I don't understand this. Waterloo, Bank and King's Cross St Pancras are all in Zone 1.

Simple Simon meant you wouldn't be travelling outside Zones 1 to 3.

 

[GuyBarry]

How does fare capping work then? TfL's site says:

When the total cost of all your journeys reaches a certain amount, a cap is applied. Any journeys you make for the rest of the day in the same zones won't be charged.

The cap you're charged depends on the type of transport you've used. There are different caps for:

All services (bus, Tube, tram, DLR, London Overground and most National Rail journeys in London
Bus & Tram (bus and tram journeys only)

It doesn't mention the cable car and ferry services though, and HS1 is specifically excluded from Oyster. The total fare for the two Tube journeys and the DLR journey is only £6.10, so would this make a difference in practice?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Oyster PAYG is not valid on HS1. The Dangleway and the Thames Clippers operate outside the TfL network, and so fares you pay on those do not count towards the daily cap.

The "cap" does what it says on the tin: it caps the amount of money you will be charged at the appropriate daily rate. How it works varies slightly between Contactless and Oyster. Oyster stops deducting money from the card when you reach the appropriate cap. On Contactless the back office will add up all the single journeys you've done in a day but then only charge you the appropriate cap. There can sometimes be a few pence difference between the amount you're charged on Oyster and the amount you're charged on Contactless because of the different ways in calculating the cost.

 

[Busaholic]

Oyster PAYG is not valid on HS1. The Dangleway and the Thames Clippers operate outside the TfL network, and so fares you pay on those do not count towards the daily cap.

The "cap" does what it says on the tin: it caps the amount of money you will be charged at the appropriate daily rate. How it works varies slightly between Contactless and Oyster. Oyster stops deducting money from the card when you reach the appropriate cap. On Contactless the back office will add up all the single journeys you've done in a day but then only charge you the appropriate cap. There can sometimes be a few pence difference between the amount you're charged on Oyster and the amount you're charged on Contactless because of the different ways in calculating the cost.

Not having been on a Thames Clipper since the day they were introduced, when no fares were charged, do they have Oyster readers or, on production of an Oyster card, do you just get a discount, like with Travelcard i.e. do you have to pay with a cash or bankcard? Incidentally, anyone know why the Travelcard fare is cheaper than Oyster on this?

 

[Tetchytyke]

I've not used the boats with Oyster as I have a paper Travelcard, but IIRC it is just a discount.

The Dangleway has Oyster readers.