PA/ Interlock box open again (Southern)

[br0llz]

for quite literally the third time in as many weeks of traveling Southern I’ve been in a carriage where this box has been left open and swinging around like a flag in the wind! What’s the protocol on these being left open? Surely a nefarious passenger could at best play in a jaunty tune over the PA, or at worst play havoc with the buzzer codes?

 

[pemma]

Given the key position being set to 'Off' rather than 'Active' can anything actually be done without a key first being inserted?

 

[br0llz]

Given the key position being set to 'Off' rather than 'Active' can anything actually be done without a key first being inserted?

Unsure actually, however this photo was taken upon arriving at East Croydon, the interlock light is illuminated, I’m sure it can’t be used but I cannot speak to how operable the phone & PA are.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Did you sent a Tweet to Southern to let them know? Don't know if there's a unique coach number displayed somewhere near the doors on their units

 

[br0llz]

Did you sent a Tweet to Southern to let them know? Don't know if there's a unique coach number displayed somewhere near the doors on their units

I sent them a little joke after I’d alerted the OBS. the previous two times no OBS could be found so I tweeted them and told station staff when I alighted.

 

[Harbouring]

I had this recently, guards panel open on a 377. It was in the front carriage as I got off at Chichester so I went to the OBS who was on the platform towards the back to let him know. I think it’s more of a hazard than an issue with someone having access to the panel (if locked)

 

[Harbouring]

Unsure actually, however this photo was taken upon arriving at East Croydon, the interlock light is illuminated, I’m sure it can’t be used but I cannot speak to how operable the phone & PA are.

The interlock is illuminated whether the panel is active or locked from what I’ve seen

 

[tsr]

Nothing can be done if the key is not present and switched to “Active”*, and the key isn’t even one which is that easily obtained compared to other railway kit.

* with the exception of using the starter bell for a very limited period of time after the key is removed, which is a feature designed for when the panel has been used for dispatch and to avoid having to put the key back to “Active” before giving two on the bell to start.

The interlock light should be illuminated at all saloon panels when interlock is achieved, regardless of key active status or not.

 

[br0llz]

Nothing can be done if the key is not present and switched to “Active”*, and the key isn’t even one which is that easily obtained compared to other railway kit.

* with the exception of using the starter bell for a very limited period of time after the key is removed, which is a feature designed for when the panel has been used for dispatch and to avoid having to put the key back to “Active” before giving two on the bell to start.

The interlock light should be illuminated at all saloon panels when interlock is achieved, regardless of key active status or not.

Reassuring to know! Thanks for the clarification on what these panels are actually called as well

 

[Sprinter153]

A lot of OBS have a habit of leaving the key Active in the panel and walking off to check tickets, stow/unstow kit, chat, play with their phones or go and sit in the cab.

It seems to be considered relatively acceptable at Southern. At my TOC leaving a key in an panel unattended would result in a lengthy Personal Development Plan.

 

[embers25]

This happens fairly regularly on SWR 159's and GWR 158's.

 

[Monty]

This happens fairly regularly on SWR 159's and GWR 158's.

Mainly due to the fact the panels are knackered and many can't be secured shut.

 

[Harbouring]

The electrostar ones are probably more of a hazard due to their location and the fact they swing quite a bit.

 

[waynemorrell]

This happens fairly regularly on SWR 159's and GWR 158's.

Yep seen the same on ATW and ScotRail 158’s.

 

[LowLevel]

This happens fairly regularly on SWR 159's and GWR 158's.

Unless you have a t key to switch it on in which case you can open the panel anyway there's nothing active on a 158 door panel. Nothing should happen regardless of what you do.

 

[BestWestern]

This happens fairly regularly on SWR 159's and GWR 158's.

On those trains, there is nothing on the panel that will operate without it first being activated. On the Southern unit above, the PA and crew comms will almost certainly be operable without a key.

 

[king_walnut]

On the Southern unit above, the PA and crew comms will almost certainly be operable without a key.

No they're not. Key needs to be on to use any of it.

 

[bengley]

No they're not. Key needs to be on to use any of it.

Correct

 

[tsr]

A lot of OBS have a habit of leaving the key Active in the panel and walking off to check tickets, stow/unstow kit, chat, play with their phones or go and sit in the cab.

It seems to be considered relatively acceptable at Southern. At my TOC leaving a key in an panel unattended would result in a lengthy Personal Development Plan.

I quite agree it’s a serious error to make. OBSs who have never had safety critical status (or indeed previous experience of working with the travelling public) would probably not appreciate the potential impact of misusing the panels, unfortunately. There are presently very few safety standards by which OBSs are monitored, as the driver is basically deemed solely responsible for the control and safety of their train and passengers. To paraphrase what a crew manager once said to me, an OBS is basically a passenger helping a random selection of other passengers. The fact there’s had to be a bit of a bodged procedure involving door panels is rather regrettable.

When the ASLEF deal properly kicks in on 1st January next year, hopefully assessments and standards will have to become more rigorous... we shall see.

The electrostar ones are probably more of a hazard due to their location and the fact they swing quite a bit.

That’s the main problem on occasions when the keys aren’t present, yes.

On those trains, there is nothing on the panel that will operate without it first being activated. On the Southern unit above, the PA and crew comms will almost certainly be operable without a key.

That’s the case on some units in Southern’s fleet, but not 377s or 387s, per my post above...

The panel shown is on 377208.

No they're not. Key needs to be on to use any of it.

Correct

There is the slight exception which I mentioned above (the bell being used immediately after the key is set to “off” during dispatch) but that would be largely irrelevant in the situation described.

 

[BestWestern]

No they're not. Key needs to be on to use any of it.

That's a jolly decent bit of design, then! Very refreshing, I like that.

 

[CN75]

When the ASLEF deal properly kicks in on 1st January next year, hopefully assessments and standards will have to become more rigorous... we shall see.

Drivers obviously have an interest in what these guard replacement jobs do, but this statement just demonstrates the uselessness of RMT’s tactics of striking all year. The changes are nearly a year old, and there are not even “assessments and standards” in place.

 

[tsr]

Drivers obviously have an interest in what these guard replacement jobs do, but this statement just demonstrates the uselessness of RMT’s tactics of striking all year. The changes are nearly a year old, and there are not even “assessments and standards” in place.

Given the RMT don’t even acknowledge the OBS grade, it’s hard to think how they’d have anything to do with it. Their strikes are purely based on their conductor and “ex-conductor” (their words) members who have been affected by the operational changes.

There are some instruction documents for the OBSs and occasional refresher training (though even that’s been paused now, for some of them...). But it’s nowhere near as stringent as an RSSB Rule Book + formal TOC local instructions (which in Southern’s case amounts to a small paperback).

 

[ComUtoR]

Drivers obviously have an interest in what these guard replacement jobs do, but this statement just demonstrates the uselessness of RMT’s tactics of striking all year. The changes are nearly a year old, and there are not even “assessments and standards” in place.

Doesn't that also show the TOC in a bad light. It is their 'assessments and standards' that need to be implemented and also any agreement between the unions and the TOC should be adhered to.

 

[DarloRich]

Is this thread not just a vast overreaction to a small common place issue? Surely nothing can be done without "arming" the panel

 

[pompeyfan]

As has been said, the content of the panel on the stock in question is dead unless the key is on and the panel is active. From my experience with Desiros though an unlocked panel gives someone the use of the PA, as the panel doesn’t arm until something like 3mph when all controls in the panel become active, including the open local door.

This has been causing issues as the panels don’t always secure after use, either because the cord from the handset gets in the way or the latch itself gets in the way.

I was speaking to a guard the other day that said a group of undesirables has an L key and has been interfering with the train, usually only (I say only) playing music or swearing down the PA, some have been actually interfering with the door controls which is obviously dangerous.