Paddington Elizabeth line escalator luggage shaming camera

[The Quincunx]

It irritates me that the announcements say "Please use the lifts provided." Provided what?

 

[BlueLeanie]

"please use the lifts with large baggage".

If it starts with "Please" then you can ignore it. Any sign or announcement that starts with "please" is a polite request and not an instruction.

 

[Millisle]

If it starts with "Please" then you can ignore it. Any sign or announcement that starts with "please" is a polite request and not an instruction.

As in : Please have all tickets ready for inspection.

 

[matt_world2004]

What about those people who suffer from claustrophobia and so find taking lifts very difficult?

Or is that one of those groups that authority apparently deems acceptable to ridicule and shame, in this supposedly 'inclusive' society we have nowadays?

Doesn't the safety of the multiple people on the escalator still take priority someone losing a case on the escalator has the potential to kill or seriously injure someone.

Elizabeth line can average 3-5 passengers per square metre in the peaks going towards Heathrow. I think someone with claustrophobia would struggle with that

Personally they should have those trolley filters near the escalators like they have at Heathrow. They are a visual indicator to take the lifts . There should also be prominent signage for the lifts as well . (Although Paddington isn't that bad for lift wayfinding , other stations are , people always struggle to find the lift from platform 4 to the ticket office at Hayes for example )

This shaming does not seem very British though and looks like the Chinese influence from MTR

 

[MikeWM]

Doesn't the safety of the multiple people on the escalator still take priority someone losing a case on the escalator has the potential to kill or seriously injure someone.

That's not an easy question, as all sorts of things *could* happen. Should I have to be deeply uncomfortable/nervous doing something I really don't want to do, possibly hundreds of times, to mitigate a very small risk that one day I accidentally do something silly on an escalator?

For example, should we check that people have had breakfast before getting on an escalator, in case they faint and injure someone? Only a couple of years ago, I saw someone topple over backwards on an up escalator at Birmingham New Street, presumably due to fainting (or worse), which could have caused carnage, as people are usually a lot heavier than luggage. (Fortunately they appeared to be ok, as were the people they fell on).

Elizabeth line can average 3-5 passengers per square metre in the peaks going towards Heathrow. I think someone with claustrophobia would struggle with that

As I've mentioned above, I don't claim to be especially typical, but certainly I have issues with lifts but not crowded trains (unless they're so crowded you can barely breathe).

Personally they should have those trolley filters near the escalators like they have at Heathrow. They are a visual indicator to take the lifts.

I've no objection whatever to trying to persuade people to take the lifts, preferably with an explanation as to why that advice is being offered. My issue is with publicly shaming those who don't, as no-one can know why they've not done so, and there may be a good reason.

 

[Jamiescott1]

The lift provision at Paddington EL is not adequate for the number of users.
The main ones from street level are particularly busy as they stop at 3 levels (street level, mainline Station level and the EL level) the walk from street level to the escalators is about 300 metres so people often take the lift instead.
I've waited longer than 10 minutes for a lift from street level so ended up using the escalator with my bike as otherwise would of missed the train.

 

[Via Bank]

Perhaps this suggests the lifts are badly positioned and there aren't enough of them? One of the reasons for the (very popular, but not especially reliable) incline lifts at Liv St etc. was that instead of having to walk down a dingy passageway, queue, then walk down another dingy passageway to access the platform, the lifts would be next to the escalators, making them more immediately available (eg to pram users) and improving social safety.

A “luggage shaming camera” has a bit of a smell of blaming the customer.

 

[43OO4]

That's not an easy question, as all sorts of things *could* happen. Should I have to be deeply uncomfortable/nervous doing something I really don't want to do, possibly hundreds of times, to mitigate a very small risk that one day I accidentally do something silly on an escalator?

For example, should we check that people have had breakfast before getting on an escalator, in case they faint and injure someone? Only a couple of years ago, I saw someone topple over backwards on an up escalator at Birmingham New Street, presumably due to fainting (or worse), which could have caused carnage, as people are usually a lot heavier than luggage. (Fortunately they appeared to be ok, as were the people they fell on).

No, it is a very easy question. Don't get me wrong, I advocate for accessible travel for all - but your discomfort for all of a 20 second journey from concourse to platform does not preside over safety rules and measures. Now I've worked in hands-on safety critical roles both on and off the railway, and I'm telling you now - if you can't handle being told how to safely use heavy machinery, which an escalator absolutely is, you shouldn't be using it. I've dealt with enough people at theme parks trying to flout the rules for the sake of comfort or convenience, and life just doesn't work that way. Sorry.

As for your second point - the difference here is that, while yes, people can topple and take falls, most of us are also capable of consciously and actively maintaining 3 points of contact including a firm grip on the handrail (and the people I've met who aren't, simply use other means) - which is the proper way to use an escalator. A suitcase cannot maintain those 3 points of contact, consciously or not, and can sometimes even hinder maintaining those 3 points for the user of the escalator.

Speaking as someone who's had to dumb down safety for people in both railway and theme park settings - them's the rules, and if you can't work within the confines of such then you're invited to find other ways of achieving XYZ, whether that be getting from concourse to platform, or even getting to your destination entirely.

An aside - a lot does need to be done to make railway and public transport environments a more comfortable environment for all, and that does extend to lifts and access between levels. Our reliance on escalators ought to be looked at, however an inquiry into the design of alternatives must also not be off the table.

 

[Andrew S]

The camera/screen idea sounds daft and pointless. I'm tempted to set a challenge to myself to take increasingly large luggage items on the escalators there and photograph myself on the screen. I wonder if I could borrow a piano from work?

 

[norbitonflyer]

As in : Please have all tickets ready for inspection.

A request. You don't have to have them ready, but you will be delayed at the barrier if you have to search your pockets for it when you get to the barrier.

 

[125Spotter]

The main ones from street level are particularly busy as they stop at 3 levels (street level, mainline Station level and the EL level)

I've only used the Paddington EL lifts once so I can't recall them – how does one pass through a ticket barrier / validate their Oyster card if the same lift runs from street level to platform without an intermediate stop at the ticket hall? Have I just missed a ticket validator on the EL platforms?

I seem to remember having to take two lifts the last time I used them.

 

[Zeremony]

Lift diagrams from an FOI request.
You have to change lifts at the Ticket Hall level.
Departures Road is the level for the National Rail station.

 

[Jamiescott1]

I've only used the Paddington EL lifts once so I can't recall them – how does one pass through a ticket barrier / validate their Oyster card if the same lift runs from street level to platform without an intermediate stop at the ticket hall? Have I just missed a ticket validator on the EL platforms?

I seem to remember having to take two lifts the last time I used them.

Sorry, when I said EL level, I meant ticket hall. Appreciate i wasn't very clear.

 

[RSARNA]

The camera/screen idea sounds daft and pointless. I'm tempted to set a challenge to myself to take increasingly large luggage items on the escalators there and photograph myself on the screen. I wonder if I could borrow a piano from work?

I don't live in the UK so I don't see the problem.
So to me if you do not use the lift and you cause a problem and a person is injured you should have to pay.

 

[NickBucks]

Could you not install a travellator ( moving walkway) adjacent to the escalator and travelling at a slightly slower pace . The fact that they are going up a gradient should not be a problem. ( Or a more flexible rubber belt as per airport luggage carousel). Passengers are forbidden to use them but travel on the adjacent escalator where they can keep an eye on their luggage but get to the top of the escalator just before the luggage arrives to grab it. Congestion avoided by slowing the luggage belt until customers are at the top of the escalator.

 

[Meerkat]

A danger is that they get to the bottom then the suitcase falls over, tripping up the person behind it and then the escalator pushing more people on top of them until someone realises and hits the button (though you are going to have to do some shouting to stop people walking and pushing)

 

[PLY2AYS]

Should I have to be deeply uncomfortable/nervous doing something I really don't want to do, possibly hundreds of times, to mitigate a very small risk that one day I accidentally do something silly on an escalator?

You mean like abiding to the speed limit on roads in case you kill someone?

It’s obviously a rule they’re trying to implement for the sake of other passengers’ safety.
It only takes a small amount of conscientiousness and time to mitigate the risk.

This “public shaming” is no different in mechanism to the laws we have in this country… if you break the law you are punished and it is publicised in all the media. No one bats an eyelid at that. If you stand in front of the yellow line on a platform, best believe I’ll shame you with the train horn to be in a position of safety.
So what difference is a very local screen reminding people to take the lift on behalf of other passengers.
It could, after all, kill someone. I don’t think it’s a hard choice. And you always have the option of getting a car, bus or taxi to your destination if you don’t like being shamed for not following safety advice laid out in the terms and conditions of purchasing your ticket.

 

[bluenoxid]

It would be really interested to see the impact assessment completed to use this scanning equipment.

 

[andylikestrain]

The lift provision at Paddington EL is not adequate for the number of users.
The main ones from street level are particularly busy as they stop at 3 levels (street level, mainline Station level and the EL level) the walk from street level to the escalators is about 300 metres so people often take the lift instead.
I've waited longer than 10 minutes for a lift from street level so ended up using the escalator with my bike as otherwise would have missed the train.

Have also been stuck in a long queue to exit the EL at Paddington; like you i carried my bike onto the escalator due to otherwise missing my connection.
So, my question is what happens with delay repay in a scenario such as this? How would i prove that i had to wait for 15 + minutes to use the lift if it caused me to miss my booked train?

 

[hwl]

It would be really interested to see the impact assessment completed to use this scanning equipment.

I'd love to know if they assessed whether people might want luggage selfies making the issue worse! (e.g. this system and screen going viral and becoming the last item on a tourist's to do list in London)

Do they have anything in their software (e.g. a human!) to prevent unwanted content attached to the outside of the bag being displayed? If not protestors will love it.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

You mean like abiding to the speed limit on roads in case you kill someone?

It’s obviously a rule they’re trying to implement for the sake of other passengers’ safety.
It only takes a small amount of conscientiousness and time to mitigate the risk.

This “public shaming” is no different in mechanism to the laws we have in this country… if you break the law you are punished and it is publicised in all the media. No one bats an eyelid at that. If you stand in front of the yellow line on a platform, best believe I’ll shame you with the train horn to be in a position of safety.
So what difference is a very local screen reminding people to take the lift on behalf of other passengers.
It could, after all, kill someone. I don’t think it’s a hard choice. And you always have the option of getting a car, bus or taxi to your destination if you don’t like being shamed for not following safety advice laid out in the terms and conditions of purchasing your ticket.

Bloody hell calm down. A condition of your ticket isn’t queuing half 15 minutes for a lift for a journey that takes 45 seconds by escalator.

And blowing the horn when someone is stood behind the yellow line is madness (unless the train isn’t stopping). The whole point of the yellow line is to maintain a position of safety when high speed trains pass through, not as a tool to abuse customers who step forward as their train approaches.

 

[PLY2AYS]

Bloody hell calm down. A condition of your ticket isn’t queuing half 15 minutes for a lift for a journey that takes 45 seconds by escalator.

And blowing the horn when someone is stood behind the yellow line is madness (unless the train isn’t stopping). The whole point of the yellow line is to maintain a position of safety when high speed trains pass through, not as a tool to abuse customers who step forward as their train approaches.

The condition of use of the ticket is to abide by whatever the TOC says in terms of health and safety.

And the horn can be used whenever deemed necessary. If you are not in a position of safety, then it’s getting used. Irrespective of your own personal preference.

 

[sprunt]

The word "escalator" doesn't appear in the NRCoT, so where exactly is it laid out that you mustn't take luggage on the escalator?

 

[PLY2AYS]

The word "escalator" doesn't appear in the NRCoT, so where exactly is it laid out that you mustn't take luggage on the escalator?

As clearly laid out in NRCoT
Section 19.
Follow the link.
Section 9(1)
Section 12(1)

To clarify… I am aware that something “might not go wrong” if you chance it.

And that the wait time for lifts may be unacceptable for some passengers with a personally expedient agenda.

But that doesn’t detract away from being a decent human being and conscientiousness.

 

[Via Bank]

Maybe instead of litigating terms and conditions and installing cameras to shame people, they could've—I don't know—come up with a programme to improve way finding and install more lifts at an interchange between a busy airport line & a busy intercity rail line, where the majority of users won't know where to go, may have limited knowledge of the system and limited knowledge of English, & will follow the path of least resistance?

And if people are routinely having to wait 15 minutes to use the lift that's appalling, people are going to miss their connections. A complete failure of value engineering.

 

[Peter0124]

There should really be more than 1 lift.

Also I'm pretty sure people bring suitcases onto the escalators in airports, mind you they aren't massive bags. Why wouldn't they do the same campaign there? Unless they already do.

 

[Horizon22]

There should really be more than 1 lift.

Also I'm pretty sure people bring suitcases onto the escalators in airports, mind you they aren't massive bags. Why wouldn't they do the same campaign there? Unless they already do.

Probably because there are less incidents with luggage at the airport and this is identified at Paddington as an incident hotspot.

Seeing as “more lifts” isn’t a short-term (it probably isn’t a medium or even long-term feasible) option, then mitigation through various methods has to be the answer.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Probably because there are less incidents with luggage at the airport and this is identified at Paddington as an incident hotspot.

Seeing as “more lifts” isn’t a short-term (it probably isn’t a medium or even long-term feasible) option, then mitigation through various methods has to be the answer.

I know EL isn't gwr or nr but at Paddington mainline and some gwr stations (i know of Slough and maidenhead) there is an automated message played by the staircases to advise people to use them safely and signs on every step saying to not run or use mobiles on the staircase

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know EL isn't gwr or nr but at Paddington mainline and some gwr stations (i know of Slough and maidenhead) there is an automated message played by the staircases to advise people to use them safely and signs on every step saying to not run or use mobiles on the staircase

FirstGroup have always been quite big on this kind of thing, far more so than other groups.

 

[Horizon22]

I know EL isn't gwr or nr but at Paddington mainline and some gwr stations (i know of Slough and maidenhead) there is an automated message played by the staircases to advise people to use them safely and signs on every step saying to not run or use mobiles on the staircase

Bit late if you’ve already gone down the escalator!