Paddington Elizabeth line escalator luggage shaming camera

[Jim the Jim]

Surely the significant risk isn't merely from suitcases being on the escalator, but from people not holding on to them. Why not have signage enforcing that?

 

[pelli]

I recall using a very long escalator at some airport where a safety video was playing on a loop saying to always put your suitcase on the step *above* you so that your body blocks it from falling, and showing a demonstration of a badly placed suitcase being bumped by someone trying to squeeze past and gaining speed down the escalator before flying off the end. (Apparently Osaka Airport also has escalator safety videos: "Preposterous escalator safety video in Osaka airport".)

 

[greyman42]

A danger is that they get to the bottom then the suitcase falls over, tripping up the person behind it and then the escalator pushing more people on top of them until someone realises and hits the button (though you are going to have to do some shouting to stop people walking and pushing)

Spot on. Even if the case or cases don't fall over, if you are struggling to get them of the end of the escalator, the people behind them have no where to go and a crush can occur.

 

[Peter Wilde]

Surprised to find this discussion. Lot of people like me are quite accustomed to taking wheeled cases on escalators. Reasons include - lots of stations (not necessarily on LT, I’m talking nationwide and worldwide) not having a lift as an alternative; the lift, where there is one, being in an out of the way corner and hard to find; finding a crowd of people with luggage waiting for the lift to re-appear; and finding the lift is out of order. So if the Eliz Line wants to be different, it has a mountain of ingrained habits to get over. Will they succeed?

 

[sprunt]

Will they succeed?

Not if the alternative is a 15 minute wait for the lift. If luggage on the escalators is that much of a risk, it was ridiculously short sighted to provide such limited lift capacity on a line whose raison d'etre is in part providing extra capacity to Heathrow.

 

[TFN]

Just to make it clear, there are 2 lifts between street level and concourse, and another 2 lifts between concourse and platforms.

 

[infobleep]

The condition of use of the ticket is to abide by whatever the TOC says in terms of health and safety.

And the horn can be used whenever deemed necessary. If you are not in a position of safety, then it’s getting used. Irrespective of your own personal preference.

Staff at stations usually tell people to stand behind the yellow line. Obviously not all stations have staff.

As for the escalators, playing devil's advocate, perhaps the screens should be install at all stations that have escalators regardless of if they have lifts and people with luggage encouraged to take alternatives, even if that means not using the underground at all.

 

[sprunt]

people with luggage encouraged to take alternatives, even if that means not using the underground at all.

Again, one of the drivers behind Crossrail was the improvement of transport links to Heathrow Airport. Should people going on their holidays be encouraged not to take luggage?

 

[PLY2AYS]

Should people going on their holidays be encouraged not to take luggage?

Reductio ad absurdum.

 

[sprunt]

Reductio ad absurdum.

Not really. Someone suggested that people with luggage should be discouraged from using a service that was put in place partially to cater for a subset of passengers who will have luggage. That's absurd on the face of it without any reduction required.

 

[PLY2AYS]

Not really. Someone suggested that people with luggage should be discouraged from using a service that was put in place partially to cater for a subset of passengers who will have luggage. That's absurd on the face of it without any reduction required.

I suppose you’re right. I take it back.

As a service, it should cater for its intended purpose. Which clearly it falls short on in capacity.

 

[infobleep]

The Elizabeth line, London's newest train line, has been awarded the UK's most prestigious architecture prize.

The Stirling Prize is normally awarded by the Royal Institute of British Architects (Riba) to the country's best new building, but this year it has gone to the entire 62-mile network and its 10 new stations.

London's Elizabeth line wins 2024 Riba Stirling Prize for architecture

The Stirling Prize is normally awarded to a new building, but has gone to the entire train line.

www.bbc.co.uk

They obviously didn't take into account lift delays at Paddington or on balance felt even with those it deserved the win.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Again, one of the drivers behind Crossrail was the improvement of transport links to Heathrow Airport. Should people going on their holidays be encouraged not to take luggage?

That does appear to be the preferred approach of the airline industry!

They obviously didn't take into account lift delays at Paddington or on balance felt even with those it deserved the win.

Reading the citation, I'm not convinced that it isn't an award for architects to tell other architects how clever architects are for making something that looks so fantastic. Something as quotidian as a lift doesn't give them the opportunity to boast about 'open sightlines' and 'clear visual language'. Which, to be fair, are important. But so is being able to get your suitcase on the train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That does appear to be the preferred approach of the airline industry!

Ironically the policy approach of the airline industry, namely strict enforcement of bag sizes to the millimetre plus the shape of the dimensions, encourages the use of hard sided trolley cases (which are the problem here) in preference to soft-sided rucksacks and holdalls. Facebook seems at the moment to be pushing to me underseat sized trolley cases, which to me are the most ridiculous concept ever (nobody, unless disabled, would find a stupid mini trolley case better than a similarly sized rucksack or shoulder bag, which would be fine on an escalator) but are effectively forced by the manner in which airlines enforce carry on sizes.

Trolleys are good for large luggage, but for hand luggage or underseat bags are an utter scourge.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Ironically the policy approach of the airline industry, namely strict enforcement of bag sizes to the millimetre plus the shape of the dimensions, encourages the use of hard sided trolley cases (which are the problem here) in preference to soft-sided rucksacks and holdalls.

A policy necessitated by their drive to force passengers to bring their luggage into the cabin, rather than check it into the cargo hold. Which of course means that the overhead bins - historically provided for coats, hats and small bags, and sized accordingly - now have to be reserved for suitcases, with strict limitations on their size. And similarly strict limitations on carry-on bags so that they'll fit in the space not occupied by the lower limbs of pasengers.

I've a suspicion that this policy also contributes to passengers expecting to put their suitcases in the (smaller) overhead racks on long-distance trains, rather than in the vehicle-end luggage racks. But this is veering rapidly off topic.

 

[J-2739]

London's Elizabeth line wins 2024 Riba Stirling Prize for architecture

The Stirling Prize is normally awarded to a new building, but has gone to the entire train line.

www.bbc.co.uk

They obviously didn't take into account lift delays at Paddington or on balance felt even with those it deserved the win.

That does appear to be the preferred approach of the airline industry!

Reading the citation, I'm not convinced that it isn't an award for architects to tell other architects how clever architects are for making something that looks so fantastic. Something as quotidian as a lift doesn't give them the opportunity to boast about 'open sightlines' and 'clear visual language'. Which, to be fair, are important. But so is being able to get your suitcase on the train.

I've continued the discussion here!

The Elizabeth Line wins the Stirling Prize

Not every day that a railway project wins a top architectural prize: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c89lj77wgzeo And the report by the RIBA: https://www.architecture.com/awards-and-competitions-landing-page/awards/riba-stirling-prize The Elizabeth Line – London’s new transport network –...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Bletchleyite]

A policy necessitated by their drive to force passengers to bring their luggage into the cabin, rather than check it into the cargo hold. Which of course means that the overhead bins - historically provided for coats, hats and small bags, and sized accordingly - now have to be reserved for suitcases, with strict limitations on their size. And similarly strict limitations on carry-on bags so that they'll fit in the space not occupied by the lower limbs of pasengers.

The thing is, you can easily squash a slightly oversized rucksack under a seat without it sticking out (this is probably why Lumo doesn't specify a specific size for this kind of bag, just that it has to fit there). But the likes of Ryanair won't allow that in sizers as they now see charging people for luggage to be a profit centre. Thus even my soft-sided exactly-IATA-sized carry on could end up rejected on an airline where it nominally fits the dimensions because soft sided luggage bulges slightly when packed.

But trolleys that could be rucksacks or shoulder bags are a nuisance. They are easy to trip over, and their users often lack spatial awareness of them, and in this case they fall down escalators.

I've a suspicion that this policy also contributes to passengers expecting to put their suitcases in the (smaller) overhead racks on long-distance trains, rather than in the vehicle-end luggage racks. But this is veering rapidly off topic.

Heading more towards this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/dealing-with-the-luggage-problem-options.274776/

But in my experience people *don't* put their bags in the overheads on trains even where they would fit - it is the complete opposite culture!

 

[infobleep]

That does appear to be the preferred approach of the airline industry!

Reading the citation, I'm not convinced that it isn't an award for architects to tell other architects how clever architects are for making something that looks so fantastic. Something as quotidian as a lift doesn't give them the opportunity to boast about 'open sightlines' and 'clear visual language'. Which, to be fair, are important. But so is being able to get your suitcase on the train.

The most important thing is being able to get around smoothly. Style is very important but not above smoothness.

It's like having some beautiful-looking software that does nothing useful or does it badly. Looks beautiful.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Theres a sign at Paddington low level that they will be installing barriers at the top of the escalators at Paddington.
I assume similar to airport escalators (which only really stop trolleys).
Notice the sign only says at the top of escalators, it doesn't mention the bottom.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Leeds has had these ‘squeeze’ bars by the escalators for years.

 

[Horizon22]

There have been so many incidents of people falling with luggage on escalators and needing first aid or medical attention at Paddington you can understand why everything is being attempted to cut down the numbers.

 

[thomalex]

I should really say no to large luggage on the escalators. It's impractical for everyone carrying some luggage to use the escalators, never mind the delays this then causes those with accessibility difficulties who require them.

 

[J-2739]

There have been so many incidents of people falling with luggage on escalators and needing first aid or medical attention at Paddington you can understand why everything is being attempted to cut down the numbers.

Is this a particular problem with Paddington, or has there been similar incidents along the line? Sorry if this has been asked before!

 

[43096]

Should people going on their holidays be encouraged not to take luggage?

Absolutely. The amount of junk people take is frankly ridiculous. There's a simple rule that everyone should apply: if you can't carry it, don't take it.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Is this a particular problem with Paddington, or has there been similar incidents along the line? Sorry if this has been asked before!

Multiple along the line especially a serious one at Canary Wharf not long ago that Involved an elderly lady who didn't face to well after a suitcase fell from the top level down.

I think Paddington EL will be seeing some works done on the escalators very soon to address the suitcase issues. If those changes are effective then other hot-spot areas will follow suit with the changes I'd believe.

 

[800301]

An E-Mail from TfL a few days ago

From Monday 28 October, we will be installing temporary physical barriers at the top of the escalators leading to the Elizabeth line ticket hall at Paddington station.

This is part of a trial to improve customer safety and prevent accidents on the escalator.

These have not been installed as of yet but hopefully an improvement, they just need to add about 2 more lifts to deal with the extra traffic

 

[miklcct]

What should people having large luggage do if they use a station which does not have lift, with escalators being the only access. This is common in a number of deep level tube stations.

 

[Via Bank]

Yes, this is the concern I have. If you don't fix the lift capacity issue, well… people aren't going to be willing to risk missing their flights or their trains to wait in a 15min queue to get to street level.

I am well aware that it's not just a case of "plop some more lifts in," but it does show an astonishing lack of foresight.

 

[Horizon22]

An E-Mail from TfL a few days ago



These have not been installed as of yet but hopefully an improvement, they just need to add about 2 more lifts to deal with the extra traffic

“Just” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there!

What should people having large luggage do if they use a station which does not have lift, with escalators being the only access. This is common in a number of deep level tube stations.

Sure that’s an issue, but isn’t relevant here is it?

 

[sp503]

Sure that’s an issue, but isn’t relevant here is it?

It is if public education is what TfL is trying to do / the effect of what TfL is doing. If they start shaming or criticising passengers with luggage from using the escalator, the passenger will take it as a criticism of their behaviour in general, not an issue specific to the Paddington EL station. Then logically they will ask, ‘hey but we are expected to do that in other stations because you don’t provide lifts. How about some consistency?’

So in my opinion the measures and the message should be very specific to the situation at Paddington, so that passengers can understand that it is not a global change in policy as such, but a request at that location specifically.