Paper tickets looking a bit retro

[occone]

Yesterday I visited my hometown station and remembered the first time I bought a train ticket, back in about 2005. What struck me even back then was how "old school" the tickets looked with their 70's orange bands (even though it appears they were introduced mid eighties). I actually found it rather amusing how groovy and retro they looked.

I admit I've become used to the design and stopped consciously seeing it, but a similar first impression must also occur to people when they first use the railway in the UK, and first impressions matter.

Should a ticket redesign be on the cards for the new GB rail? What do you think, if anything, could be improved about the current tickets?

If there was a redesign I just hope that they stay credit card sized and resilient enough to last a month in my wallet. No receipt paper or anything like that would do. Some countries have contactless paper tickets which was cool but I suspect the cost wouldn't be worth it. Something inkeeping with whatever new branding there is would be good, just hopefully nothing garish like a graphic background or clipart steam trains!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

If there was a redesign I just hope that they stay credit card sized and resilient enough to last a month in my wallet. No receipt paper or anything like that would do.

Certainly, TVM tickets are so much better than the papery ones that come from guards

 

[JonathanH]

Should a ticket redesign be on the cards for the new GB rail? What do you think, if anything, could be improved about the current tickets?

It is the abolition of credit card sized tickets that is on the cards, seemingly before GB Railways is formed.

 

[Confused52]

It is the abolition of credit card sized tickets that is on the cards, seemingly before GB Railways is formed.

A very bad idea. They are really useful because they fit into all the wallet types people carry because they are credit card sized. If GBR want to get rid of tickets don't make it the most convenient that are lost. You don't need a charge in your phone to use them and they work everywhere (until some irritation RPI on one TOC uses a permanent marker to obliterate what the next TOC wants to look at. )

 

[JonathanH]

A very bad idea.

Maybe, but it is apparently happening.

Effectively the only significant barrier is the question of cross-London transfer.

Credit card sized tickets are too small to allow the industry's chosen barcode to be printed on them, which is a fundamental step required for fraud prevention.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A very bad idea. They are really useful because they fit into all the wallet types people carry because they are credit card sized. If GBR want to get rid of tickets don't make it the most convenient that are lost. You don't need a charge in your phone to use them and they work everywhere (until some irritation RPI on one TOC uses a permanent marker to obliterate what the next TOC wants to look at. )

Bog roll tickets fit fine into the note compartment of a traditional wallet.

The majority of people who no longer do cash, so would have a card only or no wallet, are the same people who'd choose an e-ticket anyway.

 

[urbophile]

French and Italian railways (I don't know abut others) have tended to use large airline style tickets for all but the most local of journeys. With the increase of e-tickets I don't know whether they have been or are being phased out.

What are really retro are the tiny Edmondson card tickets which were still in use until the 1990s. When a return ticket was torn in half, I was always terrified of losing the return portion.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I was surprised how many e-tickets were shown on phones to the conductor on an Avanti train this week, there does seem to have been a marked shift towards them.
I had paper tickets because the trip involved a London Day Travelcard, which is only issued on paper.
That was a single piece of orange card for the return trip from Crewe on LNR and included the TfL Travelcard.
On the Avanti connection it was also the first time I have seen a conductor prominently wearing a body camera as he checked tickets.

 

[Wallsendmag]

RDG shared some ideas for a new PRT ticket format yesterday

 

[Gaelan]

Credit card sized tickets are too small to allow the industry's chosen barcode to be printed on them, which is a fundamental step required for fraud prevention.

Out of curiosity, I compared the Aztec code on a paper roll ticket I had to a CCST, and it physically fits fine - so it's just a question of whether you can fit it in with all the other information currently on the ticket.

One possibility might be the back of the ticket - naturally this adds a fair amount of complexity to the printing process, certainly compared to the bog-standard receipt printers they can use for paper roll tickets! But it seems like a potentially reasonable compromise, as you still get the security benefits and simplified ticket barriers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

RDG shared some ideas for a new ticket format yesterday

To be honest the e-ticket format is pretty good. Why not just print those on till roll? The consistency would help some people, and they're a lot smaller than the bog roll format.

 

[Haywain]

Should a ticket redesign be on the cards for the new GB rail? What do you think, if anything, could be improved about the current tickets?

No, eTickets are fine as they are. We just need to get rid of old fashioned magnetic stripe tickets.

A very bad idea. They are really useful because they fit into all the wallet types people carry because they are credit card sized.

eTickets fit really well on mobile phones.

RDG shared some ideas for a new ticket format yesterday

Why? What is the problem they want to solve?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was surprised how many e-tickets were shown on phones to the conductor on an Avanti train this week, there does seem to have been a marked shift towards them.
I had paper tickets because the trip involved a London Day Travelcard, which is only issued on paper.
That was a single piece of orange card for the return trip from Crewe on LNR and included the TfL Travelcard.
On the Avanti connection it was also the first time I have seen a conductor prominently wearing a body camera as he checked tickets.

I've seen that a few times now and I really don't like it. Looking like an enforcer should not be the default.

 

[JonathanH]

Out of curiosity, I compared the Aztec code on a paper roll ticket I had to a CCST, and it physically fits fine - so it's just a question of whether you can fit it in with all the other information currently on the ticket.

Yes, fitting in the other information becomes the issue.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

We just need to get rid of old fashioned magnetic stripe tickets.

Alright then, what about cross-London tickets?
It might not be as big a number as tickets to London itself, but I certainly can't get an e-ticket that lets me onto the tube.

 

[WillPS]

I don't buy that it's impossible to have both an Aztec code and whatever information needed printed on a card sized ticket. Lose the oversized borders, rotate so it's portrait format. Loads of space.

 

[Gaelan]

Just for fun, here's a mockup of a CCST with an Aztec code on the back:



In practice I suspect the need for double-sided printing (especially because you'd still need separate mag stripe stock unless TfL was onboard) would make this entirely impractical, but hey, it's a nice thought.

 

[JonathanH]

Alright then, what about cross-London tickets?
It might not be as big a number as tickets to London itself, but I certainly can't get an e-ticket that lets me onto the tube.

What about it?

As yet, there has been no announcement about how to handle Cross London travel. There has been speculation about what might happen, and also proposals which diminish the use of CCST tickets.

TfL have indicated the imminent withdrawal of travelcards which will remove a lot of the need for CCSTs.

They haven't yet made a proposal about Cross London tickets, but Project Oval (extension of Contactless travel) will be a further step that reduces the need for CCSTs.

 

[Haywain]

but I certainly can't get an e-ticket that lets me onto the tube.

Give it time.

 

[kkong]

I think these tickets which I saw in Slovakia recently are good.

 

[Wallsendmag]

No, eTickets are fine as they are. We just need to get rid of old fashioned magnetic stripe tickets.

eTickets fit really well on mobile phones.


Why? What is the problem they want to solve?

Sorry missed PRT out of the post , making the tickets shorter basically

 

[Confused52]

eTickets fit really well on mobile phones.

Not on my Sony Ericsson K800i they don't, and I am not buying a new one for the convenience of the railway. Furthermore I will not accept potential prosecution for a strict liability offence because of the failure of a piece of technology that relies on batteries or on permanent internet connectivity, whoever owns it.

 

[Deerfold]

French and Italian railways (I don't know abut others) have tended to use large airline style tickets for all but the most local of journeys. With the increase of e-tickets I don't know whether they have been or are being phased out.

When I visited Rome last month I got rail tickets between the airport and centre. In one direction I got an airline size ticket, in the other one slightly smaller than CCSTs -that's the size I got for the local metro, too.

 

[fandroid]

German DB Tickets are bigger. Aztec codes are used a lot, and they fit fine in my shirt pocket, which is where I prefer to carry paper tickets anyway

 

[Haywain]

Not on my Sony Ericsson K800i they don't, and I am not buying a new one for the convenience of the railway. Furthermore I will not accept potential prosecution for a strict liability offence because of the failure of a piece of technology that relies on batteries or on permanent internetk connectivity, whoever owns it.

Well, using an ancient phone that can barely do anything useful is entirely your choice, but you remove yourself from options about flexibility of how you can obtain and carry rail tickets. Fortunately for you the rail industry still provides printed tickets and the means to purchase them but if they choose not to provide them in your preferred shape and size you'll just have to deal with it.

 

[Deerfold]

Not on my Sony Ericsson K800i they don't, and I am not buying a new one for the convenience of the railway. Furthermore I will not accept potential prosecution for a strict liability offence because of the failure of a piece of technology that relies on batteries or on permanent internet connectivity, whoever owns it.

E-tickets don't require permanent internet connectivity - you just download the pdf to your phone once.

 

[43096]

Not on my Sony Ericsson K800i they don't, and I am not buying a new one for the convenience of the railway. Furthermore I will not accept potential prosecution for a strict liability offence because of the failure of a piece of technology that relies on batteries or on permanent internet connectivity, whoever owns it.

It’s not up to you to accept prosecution or not. Do you “not accept” responsibility if you lose your paper ticket?

 

[skyhigh]

Sorry missed PRT out of the post , making the tickets shorter basically

Out of interest is that the variant Northern were proposing a few months back? They were aiming for just slightly bigger than CCST and it looked pretty good to me.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Don’t think I’ve seen that, the images circulated look very good

 

[Class172]

I think these tickets which I saw in Slovakia recently are good.

View attachment 134087

When I travelled on TER Côte d’Azur a couple of years ago I was issued with very similar tickets—different layout but still had a scannable code and the background was identical.