Paper v itinerary

[Stargull]

Hi all

I just picked up tickets for a journey tomorrow from the ticket machine. They include an advance from Oxford to Underground zone 1-2, which I want to use to get to Finsbury Park.

The itinerary I have includes a change at Didcot, presumably because that made the advance fare possible. However, on the paper ticket it says ‘ specified trains and connections only’ which is what I expected, however the only train shown is the Kings Cross to Finsbury Park one.

So:

Can I use this ticket on any reasonable Oxford - London train that might connect with that Kings Cross train? Or must I follow the itinerary not shown on the ticket?

And:

Must I go to Kings Cross instead of the faster Bakerloo/Victoria route?

Thanks.

 

[Mainline421]

You have to follow what's shown on the tickets. It's possible to buy them without having ever seen the itinerary used to sell them, so you can use suitable connections subject to any TOC restrictions and minimum connection times. This one of the advantages of paper tickets over etickets. You would have to go to Kings Cross of course, but it does sound like you may actually be missing a coupon in this particular case though, so I would double check that first.

 

[Watershed]

Hi all

I just picked up tickets for a journey tomorrow from the ticket machine. They include an advance from Oxford to Underground zone 1-2, which I want to use to get to Finsbury Park.

The itinerary I have includes a change at Didcot, presumably because that made the advance fare possible. However, on the paper ticket it says ‘ specified trains and connections only’ which is what I expected, however the only train shown is the Kings Cross to Finsbury Park one.

So:

Can I use this ticket on any reasonable Oxford - London train that might connect with that Kings Cross train? Or must I follow the itinerary not shown on the ticket?

In theory you should use the exact trains you originally booked. However, as there is nothing shown on the ticket that ties you to any particular GWR train, I don't see how that can really be enforced - what, on the face of the ticket, could they refer to that you haven't copied with?

By way of example, you could entirely legitimately sell the ticket to another passenger, or buy it on their behalf, (this is permitted under the NRCoT) without needing to provide them the itinerary. Clearly they cannot be bound by something they haven't had an opportunity to see.

One thing worth noting is that the absence of reservations for this leg does indicate that the Advance was booked on non-reservable trains. If you take a direct Oxford to Paddington service, it will almost certainly be reservable and so that in its own right will indicate that the booked itinerary isn't being followed. Still, the first paragraph refers.

And:

Must I go to Kings Cross instead of the faster Bakerloo/Victoria route?

Thanks.

In theory yes. In practice you would probably get away with using the Underground as checks are almost never conducted onboard, and at any station "block" you would be able to produce a valid ticket.

 

[Stargull]

It does sound like you may actually be missing a coupon in this particular case though, so I would double check that first.

I thought that, but I have the number of coupons indicated on the receipt, so I don't think there can be anything missing.

One thing worth noting is that the absence of reservations for this leg does indicate that the Advance was booked on non-reservable trains. If you take a direct Oxford to Paddington service, it will almost certainly be reservable and so that in its own right will indicate that the booked itinerary isn't being followed.

The Oxford to Didcot train doesn't have reservations, but I assume the 7.57 Didcot to Paddington will? I'll have a look.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[The exile]

Hi all

I just picked up tickets for a journey tomorrow from the ticket machine. They include an advance from Oxford to Underground zone 1-2, which I want to use to get to Finsbury Park.

The itinerary I have includes a change at Didcot, presumably because that made the advance fare possible. However, on the paper ticket it says ‘ specified trains and connections only’ which is what I expected, however the only train shown is the Kings Cross to Finsbury Park one.

So:

Can I use this ticket on any reasonable Oxford - London train that might connect with that Kings Cross train? Or must I follow the itinerary not shown on the ticket?

And:

Must I go to Kings Cross instead of the faster Bakerloo/Victoria route?

Thanks.

Why would a ticket from Oxford to zones 1&2 show a Kings Cross to Finsbury Park train?

 

[Watershed]

The Oxford to Didcot train doesn't have reservations, but I assume the 7.57 Didcot to Paddington will? I'll have a look.

No, it's non-reservable as is the case for most of GWR's former Thames Trains services.

Why would a ticket from Oxford to zones 1&2 show a Kings Cross to Finsbury Park train?

Because the OP entered Finsbury Park as their destination, and it's an Advance ticket for which reservations must be issued for any reservable legs.

The fare destination simply happens to be Underground Zones 1-2 because that is the cheapest valid fare (Underground and National Rail tickets are interavailable for this route).

 

[Stargull]

I took the planned itinerary (as getting to London earlier today wouldn’t have helped me), but I did nearly jump on the fast Paddington service. The guard on the first service to Didcot asked to see the other bit of the ticket and needed convincing there wasn’t one. And I needed to ask to be let through the gates at Kings Cross for some reason.

 

[Watershed]

I took the planned itinerary (as getting to London earlier today wouldn’t have helped me), but I did nearly jump on the fast Paddington service. The guard on the first service to Didcot asked to see the other bit of the ticket and needed convincing there wasn’t one. And I needed to ask to be let through the gates at Kings Cross for some reason.

For future reference, the Advance ticket itself should refer to the ticket numbers of any associated reservations, if not all printed on the ticket. The collection receipt would also list the number of tickets issued.

 

[Haywain]

I have the number of coupons indicated on the receipt, so I don't think there can be anything missing.

It would help to see an image of those coupons to confirm if you have everything, but you should also have a booking confirmation email which would show applicable reservations.

 

[Stargull]

I'm sure I had everything. With both trains on the way into London non-reservable, it makes sense they weren't on the Advance, but I'm not sure why the (non-reservable?) Kings Cross - Finsbury Park service was there. Perhaps there's a rule that at least one train must be on an advance?

 

[Hadders]

GTR services between Kings Cross and Finsbury Park are reservable. As far as I know the GWR semi-fast services arfen't. This is why you'll only have a reservation for the GTR train.

 

[transportphoto]

GTR services between Kings Cross and Finsbury Park are reservable. As far as I know the GWR semi-fast services arfen't. This is why you'll only have a reservation for the GTR train.

The GTR service being reservable in this scenario is actually quite helpful - if there were no reservable legs at all, the ticket wouldn’t be offered.

 

[Hadders]

The GTR service being reservable in this scenario is actually quite helpful - if there were no reservable legs at all, the ticket wouldn’t be offered.

Indeed, although it can have the opposite effect as well.

I'm trying to book an Advance ticket between Bristol and Stevenage, arriving at Stevenage after midnight. It seems that GTR don't release seat reservation quota on trains after 23:00 preventing a through Advance ticket from being purchased. Purchasing a combination of tickets increases the price by 60%.

I've contacted GTR about it but they don't seem to understand the issue......

 

[transportphoto]

Indeed, although it can have the opposite effect as well.

I agree, this scenario is a niche one.

 

[Stargull]

I agree, this scenario is a niche one.

Can I ask a naive question? What does ‘reservable’ mean? The train from King’s Cross didn’t have seat reservations, but maybe there’s some technical meaning?

 

[Hadders]

Can I ask a naive question? What does ‘reservable’ mean? The train from King’s Cross didn’t have seat reservations, but maybe there’s some technical meaning?

It’s so GTR can sell their own Advance tickets. An Advance ticket is tied to a specific train and are limited in number and this is done through the seat reservation system. In reality you don’t get a seat reserved, just a dice on the train.

The farcical thing is despite making their trains reservable GTR don’t sell Advance tickets on the trains between Kings Cross (not should they, in my view)

 

[alistairlees]

Can I ask a naive question? What does ‘reservable’ mean? The train from King’s Cross didn’t have seat reservations, but maybe there’s some technical meaning?

The train is in the reservation system. Lots of trains that don’t have real (numbered) seat reservations are. Advance tickets can therefore be sold for them, but you won’t have a reserved seat - you can sit anywhere.

 

[Stargull]

Thanks all.