Passenger Information Worldwide

[marc224]

Request
Good morning, my name is Marc Moll,

My name is Marc Moll. I was told that you are the right person to contact when it comes to the history of bus transport worldwide.
Unfortunately, it is quite difficult to get information on this subject.
I had a discussion with a friend about bus service in the 70s, especially in the 80s and 90s. I will also give a presentation on this topic (public transport) in class. l



Before there were automatic stop announcements and displays, did the bus driver have to announce the stops over the microphone?
Did the bus drivers also do this when they had to announce the stops themselves? Was this also done in practice?
Or how was a passenger supposed to know where the next stop was?

.
How did the bus drivers handle this? Did they follow it exactly, did most do it or only half, etc.? What percentage of bus drivers always announce the stops without being asked?
Did the announcements work equally well during the period mentioned (1970, 1980, 1990) or was it worse at the beginning or end of this period?


Are there many former bus drivers or others who rode the bus frequently during this period (1970) or 1980/1990 who know what it was really like or experienced it themselves?



I look forward to your reply

With kind regards

Marc Moll

 

[Alfonso]

Request
Good morning, my name is Marc Moll,

My name is Marc Moll. I was told that you are the right person to contact when it comes to the history of bus transport worldwide.
Unfortunately, it is quite difficult to get information on this subject.
I had a discussion with a friend about bus service in the 70s, especially in the 80s and 90s. I will also give a presentation on this topic (public transport) in class. l



Before there were automatic stop announcements and displays, did the bus driver have to announce the stops over the microphone?
Did the bus drivers also do this when they had to announce the stops themselves? Was this also done in practice?
Or how was a passenger supposed to know where the next stop was?

.
How did the bus drivers handle this? Did they follow it exactly, did most do it or only half, etc.? What percentage of bus drivers always announce the stops without being asked?
Did the announcements work equally well during the period mentioned (1970, 1980, 1990) or was it worse at the beginning or end of this period?


Are there many former bus drivers or others who rode the bus frequently during this period (1970) or 1980/1990 who know what it was really like or experienced it themselves?



I look forward to your reply

With kind regards

Marc Moll

Welcome to the forum Mark
I can't speak for the whole world bit in my experience in the UK there usually weren't any announcements, and usually no microphones either. If you were unfamiliar you could ask the driver when you got on and he (very rarely a she) would either offer to shout when you were there or tell you what to look out for, for example it's just after the windmill/at the top of the big hill or whatever. On some touristy routes popular destinations might be regularly announced with a shout.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In Germany it was the norm for bus drivers to read out each stop into a microphone.

In the UK sometimes some drivers would shout key ones (no microphone) but it was very rare.

 

[wattman]

Some observations for The Netherlands and Belgium:

Did the bus drivers also do this when they had to announce the stops themselves? Was this also done in practice?

Netherlands: a minority. In the 1990's automatic announcements were introduced. But there were exceptions: In The Hague (Netherlands) there was (is?) a tram driver very famous for his personal announcements, also giving informations about connecting lines, or delays when arriving at a railway station.

Belgium: as far as I remember the so-called Vicinal trams (interurban tram system) had no microphones, so no announcements.

Or how was a passenger supposed to know where the next stop was?

Map, timetable booklet. In urban tram and bus systems there we signs with the stops in the vehicle. I can't remember if the latter was used in interurban busses.
In the Walloon part of Belgium there were even no maps, and hardly booklets. They used to say there: "The daily passengers know, for the others there's no need to know". Was also applicable for peak hour extra's running with indicator blinds with the indication "SPECIAL". Rather confusing for the occasional passenger.

Did the announcements work equally well during the period mentioned (1970, 1980, 1990) or was it worse at the beginning or end of this period?

In The Hague the regularity of announcing stops declined in the 1980s. As said: from the 1990s, automatic stop announcements has been introduced

 

[marc224]

hello, thank you for your interesting messages.

i have also heard from germany, switzerland and austria that the bus drivers used to announce the stops.

i think bus stop announcements are important and a good service. that was the case in the past and it is still the case today.

i would have thought that bus drivers used to announce the bus stops as a matter of course.

to the netherlands:
how high would you estimate the proportion of bus drivers who always announced the stops?
were you only in the hague or also in other cities in the netherlands?
when were you there?

i would be happy to receive further messages. preferably from cities where the drivers used to announce the stops themselves.

many greetings

marc

 

[WM Bus]

Before there were automatic stop announcements and displays, did the bus driver have to announce the stops over the microphone?

No different to today surely, no announcements or displays 94/95 Birmingham - Chelmsley via Ward End, 14 Birmingham - Chelmsley via Alum Rock and 65/67 Birmingham - Perry Common/Castle Vale via Aston. These corridors don't have announcements programmed in on the platinum's either. Plus many more routes that never use platinum vehicles as well.

Loads of other places don't have them I think.

 

[StephenHunter]

Conductors were still pretty common back then, weren't they?

Also, despite it being an official secret, conductors would apparently call out "Curzon Street for MI5" when the HQ was there.

 

[dutchflyer]

Very same question was posted-in dec. or so-on several german and dutch transport fora.
Answer was in general NO, with some exceptions-sometimes if unfamiliair passenger would ask when buying ticket. Or there was still a conductor/salesperson. Or-very common in times before www-just ask the local person sitting beside you. How often where you-similar topic-asked for a street nearby when just walking around?
In local BUSes at least 80-90% of usual passengers are locals, going daily and hence very familair with the lines and streets and not really needing this info. They would even recognize a strange face and friendly ask where s/he would be going and knowing where to alight? I also recall there were even minor protests from people wanting their rest if their was too much rumour for these calling out loudly-early mornings.
Note-f.e. in many deLIJN buses in Flanders/BElgium there are still no screens/visual informations and they seem to be able to live with that easily. Ditto in the free citybus in Calais/FR.
In Praha-DPP/new trams they even announce now-also aurally-next stop plus stop after that in beautiful spoken Czech.

 

[30907]

In the UK at least you would ask the driver (or conductor, earlier) for a ticket to X stop or place (relatively few flat or Zonal fares then, so that was necessary). They would often call out your stop, especially if you asked them when buying.
It was sensible to sit downstairs on a double decker if you needed help!

In addition, request stops seem to be uncommon in mainland Europe, so you had time to check. In that period I only recall using buses in Switzerland and I don't remember announcements.

wattman's comment (welcome to both of you BTW) about NL is interesting, because I recall noting in 1980 NS trains routinely announcing "station: N."

 

[Bletchleyite]

Though to be fair in some places e.g. Manchester it was usual to ask for the fare, e.g. "40 please". That did identify you as knowing where you were going, though.

 

[hexagon789]

Though to be fair in some places e.g. Manchester it was usual to ask for the fare, e.g. "40 please". That did identify you as knowing where you were going, though.

Still common in Glasgow, though it's more often than the wrong fare! (Because it's gone up by about 20p since about 4 years ago when returns were abolished but people still ask for a single as "£1.70 cheers, mate." Instead of £1.90.)

 

[Siemens Trains]

Announcements were always pretty rare on Edinburgh's buses, whether from conductors or drivers. Even now automatic stop announcements aren't widespread. In the days of fare stages in some cases you could be thrown off the bus by an attentive driver/conductor once your ticket expired but generally enforcement was viewed as the responsibility of random inspectors.
Asking a driver to give you a shout when nearing your desired destination is hit or miss - very often they will forget and you risk ending up as the only passenger sitting at the terminus. Striking up conversation with fellow passengers has always been frowned upon but most will offer reluctant cooperation as it's in their own interests to avoid the bus being held up.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Still common in Glasgow, though it's more often than the wrong fare! (Because it's gone up by about 20p since about 4 years ago when returns were abolished but people still ask for a single as "£1.70 cheers, mate." Instead of £1.90.)

There was a period of time in Manchester when "40 please" actually cost 50p. The extra dwell made a right mess of the timetable.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

Australia bus drivers never announced stops. And still don't.

Tram wise drivers and I'm guessing the conductor when we had them only announced major stops.

 

[wattman]

wattman's comment (welcome to both of you BTW) about NL is interesting, because I recall noting in 1980 NS trains routinely announcing "station: N."

In Dutch trains that was / is indeed standard. The train guard doing the announcement of stations with connections for others trains, the driver for the other station stops.
Now in the local trains ("Sprinter service") it is done automatic, but sometimes the guard also doing a welcome message or giving extra information. On the Intercity services it is still "human".

to the netherlands:
how high would you estimate the proportion of bus drivers who always announced the stops?
were you only in the hague or also in other cities in the netherlands?
when were you there?

About The Hague, it's my experience as a local. I know making annoucements was part of the training to become a bus driver or tram driver. if my memory is correct, the annoucments of the stops was standard in the 1970's, but it quickly became less so. I think less than 25% in 1980's.

 

[D6130]

Striking up conversation with fellow passengers has always been frowned upon but most will offer reluctant cooperation as it's in their own interests to avoid the bus being held up.

Really? I assume that you're still talking about Edinburgh. From what I remember from my time in Glasgow, striking up conversations with fellow passengers was more-or-less the norm. What a difference 45 miles makes!

 

[hexagon789]

Really? I assume that you're still talking about Edinburgh. From what I remember from my time in Glasgow, striking up conversations with fellow passengers was more-or-less the norm. What a difference 45 miles makes!

I concur, I would also say bus drivers in Glasgow are usually quite good at telling people when to alight when they've asked for an unfamiliar stop/destination to them.

Must be like the old saying about Glasgow vs Edinburgh, eh?

 

[Siemens Trains]

Really? I assume that you're still talking about Edinburgh. From what I remember from my time in Glasgow, striking up conversations with fellow passengers was more-or-less the norm. What a difference 45 miles makes!

Yes, seems to be the case in Edinburgh. It's very rare to enter into discourse with strangers on buses here.
I've tried offering travel advice to other passengers in the past and it's seldom welcomed. People usually take offence if you weren't involved in their original conversation. I think Glasgow would be quite different.

 

[marc224]

Hello,

thank you for the interesting news.

On London: I heard from someone who was in London for the first time in 1990 that in the 1990s in central London the bus stops were always announced by the conductor on the buses.
Is this true? Did the conductors announce the stops in the 1980/1990?
How high would you estimate the percentage of bus drivers/conductors who always announced the stops without being asked?
How was it in Glasgow?


He also said that automatic stop announcements were introduced in the 1990s.

On the Netherlands: How high was the rate in Amsterdam, for example?
How many bus drivers announced the stops in Amsterdam?

Of course I am also happy to receive news from England and other countries.

Many greetings

 

[StephenHunter]

Don't know about Central London, but conductors had gone from the buses in my part of East London by then.

 

[30907]

Hello,

thank you for the interesting news.

On London: I heard from someone who was in London for the first time in 1990 that in the 1990s in central London the bus stops were always announced by the conductor

There were very few crew-operated buses left by the 1990s.

 

[marc224]

Hello thank you very much for the messages.

I am of course always happy to receive further news from anywhere in the world or within the UK.

How many bus drivers in the 1980s and 1990s announced the most important stops?

Were there still many conductors on the buses in the 1980s?

When there were still many buses with conductors, did most conductors announce the stops?

Many greetings

 

[Siemens Trains]

Hello thank you very much for the messages.

I am of course always happy to receive further news from anywhere in the world or within the UK.

How many bus drivers in the 1980s and 1990s announced the most important stops?

Were there still many conductors on the buses in the 1980s?

When there were still many buses with conductors, did most conductors announce the stops?

Many greetings

In general bus usage in the UK declined steeply during the 1980s and conductors were mostly phased out by the time of deregulation around 1986 in favour of one person operation. Of course a few routes could still justify the extra staff and of course some vehicle designs required a conductor to collect fares and these were mostly in London (where the bus system has always been controlled). Driver wages also declined around this time such that I suspect they may have taken less pride in their work and wouldn't choose to announce stops to their 'customers'.

 

[marc224]

Thank you

Until 1986, many bus lines had even more 2-man crews on the buses.

In the buses with two-man crews, the conductor often announces the stops, right?
Have you experienced that the bus conductors announced the bus stops?

Since when have there actually been automatic stop announcements on London buses?

Does anyone else have some info?

Hello, I found out that in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Sweden, Japan, Russia, Hungary, Canada and the USA, bus stops used to be announced by the bus driver (1970-1990).
Can anyone confirm this?

Does anyone know in which other countries the bus driver announces the stops?

Regarding London: If the automatic system fails in London today, will the driver announce the stops? Has anyone had this experience

 

[StephenHunter]

Not in my experience in London.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Request
Good morning, my name is Marc Moll,

My name is Marc Moll. I was told that you are the right person to contact when it comes to the history of bus transport worldwide.
Unfortunately, it is quite difficult to get information on this subject.
I had a discussion with a friend about bus service in the 70s, especially in the 80s and 90s. I will also give a presentation on this topic (public transport) in class. l



Before there were automatic stop announcements and displays, did the bus driver have to announce the stops over the microphone?
Did the bus drivers also do this when they had to announce the stops themselves? Was this also done in practice?
Or how was a passenger supposed to know where the next stop was?

.
How did the bus drivers handle this? Did they follow it exactly, did most do it or only half, etc.? What percentage of bus drivers always announce the stops without being asked?
Did the announcements work equally well during the period mentioned (1970, 1980, 1990) or was it worse at the beginning or end of this period?


Are there many former bus drivers or others who rode the bus frequently during this period (1970) or 1980/1990 who know what it was really like or experienced it themselves?



I look forward to your reply

With kind regards

Marc Moll

On London bus routes which did have conductors (all of them until the 1980s-ish; then phased out over many years), it was common (though far from universal) for conductors to call out at least some of the stops - perhaps especially in tourist areas. Some conductors were quite entertaining in fact. It was also common, if you were in an unfamiliar area, to ask the conductor to let you know when you reached a particular place. Automatic announcements/displays didn't exist when conductors first disappeared; and drivers on driver-only buses didn't - in my experience - take the initiative to call out places like conductors did. Remember that on most London suburban bus routes a very large proportion of the passengers are people who've used that route many many times.

It's obviously possible to ask a driver to let you know when you get to a particular place, though it seems less "the thing to do" than it was with conductors. (At least in London; in other places asking drivers in that way still seems to exist to some extent.) Asking the driver for this information was commoner in London years back when - in earlier post-conductor days - you had to interact with the driver to ask for a specific ticket (pre-flat-fare).

 

[marc224]

Hello, I just don't understand why the bus drivers didn't announce the stops when the conductors were abolished.The conductors did them too.
I think an unsolicited stop announcement is important, in the past as well as today.
In Germany and other countries it was apparently common for bus drivers to announce stops without being asked.
Why not in London? London is and was a cosmopolitan city.
So the conductors were on almost all lines until the 1980s?

Nowadays, automatic stop announcements are a matter of course, so why don't the bus drivers announce the stops themselves in the few cases where the automatic stop announcement fails?
That would actually be a good service and important

 

[Flying Snail]

Announcing stops is not now nor has it ever been for the vast majority of passengers.

In the dim and distant past when people's options were to take responsibility for themselves or be left out in the cold (often literally) the small amount who were unfamiliar with the route or locations would either use a map and work it out for themselves or as another human (staff or other member of public) and would by and large get by just fine.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Hello, I just don't understand why the bus drivers didn't announce the stops when the conductors were abolished.The conductors did them too.
I think an unsolicited stop announcement is important, in the past as well as today.
In Germany and other countries it was apparently common for bus drivers to announce stops without being asked.
Why not in London? London is and was a cosmopolitan city.
So the conductors were on almost all lines until the 1980s?

Nowadays, automatic stop announcements are a matter of course, so why don't the bus drivers announce the stops themselves in the few cases where the automatic stop announcement fails?
That would actually be a good service and important

I'm not sure that during the period when conductors were being taken off London buses there was any intercom for the driver to use. So anything the driver tried to say wouldn't be heard by half the passengers.

 

[RT4038]

Announcing stops is not now nor has it ever been for the vast majority of passengers.

In the dim and distant past when people's options were to take responsibility for themselves or be left out in the cold (often literally) the small amount who were unfamiliar with the route or locations would either use a map and work it out for themselves or as another human (staff or other member of public) and would by and large get by just fine.

Nowadays most people can track their location on their smart phones. No need to rely on the driver....