Passengers who don't speak English, and ticket checks

[thenorthern]

I noticed this the other day when someone who couldn't speak English had a problem with the tickets and got issues a standard fare.

From what I understand though not being able to speak/understand/read English isn't a defence for not having the correct ticket.

Generally though compared to most countries we aren't that good with learning other languages as in most European countries you can find someone who speaks English as you have a problem.

 

[sheff1]

Full Indian ensemble, layered and all very floaty and floor length. Silk scarves over their heads. Facial decorations, (not tattoos!).

Like this ?

If so they will likely have been to, or are going to, a celebration of some sort (wedding or religious, normally).

 

[sheff1]

I do my homework & I am extremely honest. It's what sets me apart.

So you think everyone else is extremely dishonest ?

..... Especially if English is not their first language:

Agreed but as I've said, most here that I have encountered over years & years are just fare evaders trying it on unlike Brits & Americans who book, plan & pay in advance.

 

[Llanigraham]

I've heard it so so many times. They constantly try it on & it's so so obvious. No I do not end up in that situation abroad. I do my homework & I am extremely honest. It's what sets me apart.

What a helpful soul you sound!
Just because a few try it on you make a presumption that everyone is the same.

 

[bb21]

I can't really decide whether half of this thread were being serious or taking the proverbial p.

Can we at least try and focus on the core issue?

 

[dk1]

What a helpful soul you sound!
Just because a few try it on you make a presumption that everyone is the same.

Life & working on the railway makes you that way. A shame but there you go. Just being honest.

 

[grumblingalong]

You don't need to worry about sounding racist - this sounds racist:

My experience of working trains matches that of dk1, it's not racist, he is reporting exactly what I have also noted.

I have yet to deal with a ticketless American tourist of whom we get many, normally on britrail passes, some other groups however I do feel hide behind a sometimes invisible language barrier to avoid payment.

This includes a French couple who spent five minutes pretending they didn't understand what I was saying about their wrongly routed ticket, while debating in French what to do about getting caught. Their faces when I explained to them their many errors, in French, made all those years in school oh so worth it.

 

[LowLevel]

Most people whether or not they speak English understand the concept of someone wearing a uniform stopping and asking for a ticket.

It is a fact that if you are travelling abroad it is your responsibility to ensure you can do so at least reasonably legitimately, and to prepare yourself accordingly. I do loads of research before doing anything abroad.

I don't worry so much about restrictions and all that malarkey with people who clearly aren't natives (they're bad enough for me as an employee), however I don't just let people slide by without producing anything or some discourse, even if it's just them offering me up a fistful of cash and me sorting the appropriate amount out for them.

I've only had to resort to getting BTP out twice - both turned out to be failed asylum seekers who were wanted by the immigration authorities and taken into custody.

It's not a particularly regular problem though.

 

[sheff1]

Most people whether or not they speak English understand the concept of someone wearing a uniform stopping and asking for a ticket.

My understanding from the OP was that the guard didn't stop but passed through rather swiftly. As I pointed out in post #8, people not noticing the guard in such circumstances happens with English speakers as well.

 

[GarethJohn]

They sat in First Class speaking in their language to each other. Whats the problem?
Was the 'OP' observing the whole journey from entry of the station to exit?
If he had an issue about their tickets not being checked while he was able to witness it why didn't you ask the guard to check them in front of you.
I often hear moans from English people who have recently moved into North Wales who arrogantly expect first language Welsh speakers to switch their conversation to English when they walk into a Pub or a trying to listen into the gossip between two OAP's while on the Bus. Concluding that they must be the subject of the conversation.
It's as if they think the Welsh have nothing better to talk about than nosy incomers.

 

[Starmill]

I've heard it so so many times. They constantly try it on & it's so so obvious. No I do not end up in that situation abroad. I do my homework & I am extremely honest. It's what sets me apart.

Gosh I wish we could all be so heavenly.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Can I just point out that if you had an issue with one of your fellow passengers, could you have said something to the train crew rather than just simply looked around?

 

[bb21]

They sat in First Class speaking in their language to each other. Whats the problem?

What problem? Who's having a problem?

 

[GarethJohn]

What problem? Who's having a problem?

Would the OP have posted a thread speculating about any English women sitting silently in First Class while the Guard walked past her?
Why make the point about Indian women speaking their language, wearing clothes of their choice among each other?
Why do so many poster on this Forum form opinions and assumptions of others passengers (certainly those who sit in First Class) when it is none of there business?
Just like Hotels, Flights. What other passengers and the company do with each other is there own business.

 

[dk1]

Gosh I wish we could all be so heavenly.

Practice makes perfect. You'll get there

 

[wibble]

....especially when Americans are 12 hours out on their advances in the states that they say don't use 24 hour clocks.

In that case, there must be a huge number of Americans that miss their flights home!

 

[sd0733]

In that case, there must be a huge number of Americans that miss their flights home!

True, maybe i was a bit generous there! To be fair they had made an effort as I remember seeing the ticket with the postal address on and they had had them posted out to Florida I think it was so I gave them the benefit of the doubt.

As Dk1 says though working on the trains due to the high levels of all sorts of excuses/lies the job makes you growingly suspicious of all people regardless of where they come from or who they are. It's human nature that once you've been bitten a few times and had your intelligence insulted you do get far far less trusting of everyone unfortunately.

 

[trainophile]

Would the OP have posted a thread speculating about any English women sitting silently in First Class while the Guard walked past her?
Why make the point about Indian women speaking their language, wearing clothes of their choice among each other?
Why do so many poster on this Forum form opinions and assumptions of others passengers (certainly those who sit in First Class) when it is none of there business?
Just like Hotels, Flights. What other passengers and the company do with each other is there own business.

English women would have no excuse for ignoring a request for a ticket inspection, and their body language would probably give them away if they were playing dumb. I specifically said that the ladies in question appeared genuinely unaware of the request being made (and yes the guard did breeze through, not even looking to see if there were any new arrivals - crew change at York so he probably couldn't wait to finish!).

The fact that they spoke only in their own language was intrinsic to the point in question.

I only described their dress as I was asked to elaborate on it.

It was not my business other than I had paid for a first class ticket and there was a likelihood that they hadn't.

It's down to the guard not being thorough enough really, but then again I don't expect a guard to remember every passenger he has seen or not seen, although some are more diligent than others.

 

[sheff1]

English women would have no excuse for ignoring a request for a ticket inspection,

I have already pointed out that often people do not "ignore" the request, they are unaware of it.

It was not my business other than I had paid for a first class ticket and there was a likelihood that they hadn't.

Maybe in future, it is best if you alert the guard to your concerns. After all, passengers are requested to report anything suspicious and apparently you believe talking in a foreign language and wearing "non-British" clothes means they are probably fare dodgers, as you have already said

I specifically said that the ladies in question appeared genuinely unaware of the request being made

 

[GarethJohn]

English women would have no excuse for ignoring a request for a ticket inspection, and their body language would probably give them away if they were playing dumb. I specifically said that the ladies in question appeared genuinely unaware of the request being made (and yes the guard did breeze through, not even looking to see if there were any new arrivals - crew change at York so he probably couldn't wait to finish!).

The fact that they spoke only in their own language was intrinsic to the point in question.

I only described their dress as I was asked to elaborate on it.

It was not my business other than I had paid for a first class ticket and there was a likelihood that they hadn't.

It's down to the guard not being thorough enough really, but then again I don't expect a guard to remember every passenger he has seen or not seen, although some are more diligent than others.

And had absolutely nothing to do with them being Foreign or speaking in a strange language, yet you seem to make that a point.

So Guard walked past them and did not even approach them while you were watching.
Do you know if they were checked when you weren't there?
Do you know if they are regular passengers and the Conductors familiar with them so knew they have valid tickets?T
This happens on thousands of trains in the world a thousand times an hour.
And happens on every train I travel on if the Guard is doing ticket duties.

Perhaps the Guard was being efficient and checking the tickets of those who look suspicious and more likely to be trying it on in First Class such as people who look and speak like yourself.


But I suppose Guard doing what they do numerous times a day doesn't have the same ring to it.

 

[thenorthern]

You have got to remember though most people in this country don't understand the nature of tickets with Day/Open, Advanced/Off-Peak/Anytime, Any Permitted/Via X and specific operator only. Most foreign people are also unlikely to understand it let alone someone who can't speak English.

 

[Phil.]

If the guard was not pressed for time he could have held a ticket as a visual example. Although if I was a passenger in the carriage and they were using a fake language barrier to be rude or obstructive I would have asked Siri in a very loud voice what is the constituent language of England

But of course all those British people who take a holiday in Spain/Greece/Portugal always but always take time to learn the language of the country don't they?

 

[GarethJohn]

The actions of the OP:
Observing the Conductor, taking note of what other passengers are doing looking around and listening to see the reactions of others.

The ''Foreigners'':
Wearing distinctive clothing, chatting in a casual manner not caring if it's in a language that draws attention to themselves, being so engrossed in their day that they do not notice the ticket man or the nosy parkers listening in.
Hardly the actions of someone trying to get away with a free ride.

Who would you be more suspicious of?

 

[trainophile]

Maybe in future, it is best if you alert the guard to your concerns. After all, passengers are requested to report anything suspicious and apparently you believe talking in a foreign language and wearing "non-British" clothes means they are probably fare dodgers, as you have already said

I never said they were fare dodgers, merely suspected that they might not have first class tickets... but of course they might have done! The point is that because they didn't understand the request to show their tickets the other people in the section, holding the appropriate tickets, felt that we had paid more for the same seating etc.

I don't consider it my place to tell a guard how to do his job!

 

[AlterEgo]

If the guard was not pressed for time he could have held a ticket as a visual example. Although if I was a passenger in the carriage and they were using a fake language barrier to be rude or obstructive I would have asked Siri in a very loud voice what is the constituent language of England

Or, perhaps you could deface their tickets with swastikas?

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1990484&postcount=18

 

[trainophile]

The actions of the OP:
Observing the Conductor, taking note of what other passengers are doing looking around and listening to see the reactions of others.

The ''Foreigners'':
Wearing distinctive clothing, chatting in a casual manner not caring if it's in a language that draws attention to themselves, being so engrossed in their day that they do not notice the ticket man or the nosy parkers listening in.
Hardly the actions of someone trying to get away with a free ride.

Who would you be more suspicious of?

They were sat opposite me at the same table. I had my ticket checked shortly after leaving Piccadilly. I wouldn't ever bother to "listen in" to someone else's boring conversation, all the more pointless when I don't understand the language!

Okay you win. I'm an evil bigot :roll:

 

[sauropod99]

They sat in First Class speaking in their language to each other. Whats the problem?
Was the 'OP' observing the whole journey from entry of the station to exit?
If he had an issue about their tickets not being checked while he was able to witness it why didn't you ask the guard to check them in front of you.
I often hear moans from English people who have recently moved into North Wales who arrogantly expect first language Welsh speakers to switch their conversation to English when they walk into a Pub or a trying to listen into the gossip between two OAP's while on the Bus. Concluding that they must be the subject of the conversation.
It's as if they think the Welsh have nothing better to talk about than nosy incomers.

Welsh is the only "official" language in the UK. English is just the most common...

 

[Requeststop]

I have spent most of my working life outside of the UK in countries where English is the second or even third language spoken and in some nations where English was hardly spoken at all. In some nations (outside of the Western nations), if you are Caucasian, it is expected that you speak English.

Travelling around these nations, it is helpful if you speak some of the language, or at least have a phrase-book, or these days an app on your phone to help with translations. These are very good. It should be no problem at all of "non-English speakers" to adapt to modern technology to try to communicate. Visitors or residents who do not speak our lingo, have ways to communicate with officials they come in contact with. Recently travelling in Japan with a Japan rail rover, many of the staff on trains spoke a little English tolerably well. I used my phone app when there was mis-understanding. It's not difficult. If we can do it there, then they, especially residents can do it too. These days there is no excuse, to my mind.

 

[Clip]

I never said they were fare dodgers, merely suspected that they might not have first class tickets... but of course they might have done! The point is that because they didn't understand the request to show their tickets the other people in the section, holding the appropriate tickets, felt that we had paid more for the same seating etc.

I don't consider it my place to tell a guard how to do his job!

And how do you know they didnt ask the guard at the doors where they got on where first was and showed them their tickets and then as he already saw them he just walked past?

 

[GarethJohn]

And how do you know they didnt ask the guard at the doors where they got on where first was and showed them their tickets and then as he already saw them he just walked past?

Quite likely. Considering the were on Transpennine I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between First and Standard and need to take a good look around for a sign saying it was so.
Id be quite embarrassed to admit and tell them ''Yes thisReally is a First Class Carriage''