Pendolino Sickness

[Nym]

Shame I can never get out and stand on the sharp end of a pindilino with a pint, if I do that on a boat then I'm fine lol

 

[Gizmogle]

I don't work like that. Like if your kids are reading a book on a long car journey they'll almost certainly get car-sick. Get them to sit up and look out the window and they'll be fine. likewise on a ship in rough sea, get out on deck so you can see the ship's movement.

It's the inner ear feeling the movement, but the eye not seeing any movement and the balance senses getting confused, that makes you sick.

That's just what I heard.

But if that isn't true, then why do Pendolinos have really small windows?

 

[CosherB]

That's just what I heard.

But if that isn't true, then why do Pendolinos have really small windows?

Good question! In my opinion it's a major design boob. I think Branson wanted them to feel like airline travel, hence the cramped seats, claustrophobic cabin, and small windows. They are a terrible come-down after the light and airy Mk3s they replaced.

The coach sides curve inwards to alow tilt speration between passing trains, I guess, but the Supervoyagers seem to avoid that and so don't have the cramped feel of a 390 (but they have those awful underfloor vibrators!). Despite that I really think it would have been quite possible to engineer much deeper windows into the 390s, which would do a lot to offset the claustrophobic feel.

 

[1D53]

It was a design of the tilt profile as larger windows wouldnt give the train enough strength.

 

[CosherB]

It was a design of the tilt profile as larger windows wouldnt give the train enough strength.

So how come tilting Voyagers have big windows?

 

[Nym]

Because they don't go as fast? Or maybe because Bombardier design better trains than Alstom?

 

[voyagerdude220]

Like i said in my original post, Pendolinos tilt more into the curve, than 221's.
They both go as fast as each other (at the moment at least), with them both running at a maximum speed of 125 mph.

Maybe the fact that Pendos can tilt further into the curve than Super Voyagers, is why they both have contrasting interior designs?

I can't remember exactly how many degrees both can tilt, but it's probably more than what I do on my bicycle!

 

[Nym]

125 to 140mph is a hell of a lot more energy to stop, that and the pindos weigh more, *gets a cig packet for a calculation*
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
5 Car Voyager, ~250tonnes@125mph, thats 385MJ to stop it...
9 Car Pindo ~460tonnes@140mph, over 900MJ!

Thats twice as much energy to dicipate, so they need to be at least twice as stong to withstand it. Hence more re-enforcements

 

[RJ]

I was on a Pendo 23:40 - 02:00 on Friday night and 20:45 - 23:45 tonight. On the first one, the closest toilet had a door which wouldn't close completely and repeatedly opened itself up. The smaller toilet's floor was soaked, the sink was clogged and had floating bits in it hock:. No reason to complain on the second one though. I don't think either even got to tilt as it felt like we were pathed for 60mph running!

 

[Gizmogle]

I was walking through a Pendo to get to my coach, and just as I get there, I see an "OUT OF ORDER" sign on the toilet and get the worst smell I have ever smelt. It was fishy and...just...ugh, wrong. Now that gave me Pendolino sickness.

 

[Nym]

What where they doing in that toilet? lol

 

[Respite]

Well all of Dick Bransons trains make me feel sick...........I guess it's just the sense of what we used to have before the crap we have now. It's an intense hate of people trying to bling up the railways for image rather than service I guess.

Also driving 175's can make me feel sea sick with there wollowy suspension, wierd really as I have sailed yachts across the channel, the med & a few other places with no worries. But 90mph between Crewe & chester on Notwork fails finest infrastructure makes me want to heave.:roll:

 

[Nym]

Heh, would be fun if they upgraded the track so we can run all these 100mph trains at 100mph at some point, lol

 

[don24]

125 to 140mph is a hell of a lot more energy to stop, that and the pindos weigh more, *gets a cig packet for a calculation*
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
5 Car Voyager, ~250tonnes@125mph, thats 385MJ to stop it...
9 Car Pindo ~460tonnes@140mph, over 900MJ!

Thats twice as much energy to dicipate, so they need to be at least twice as stong to withstand it. Hence more re-enforcements

Its interesting you got those figures for it.

I worked it out using 0.5 * 250 tonnes * 125mph

0.5 * 250000* 55.5556m/s and got 6.9MJ

 

[Nym]

it's 1/2 mv^2 hun

Although I'll admit I forgot to half the above values...

 

[jacknottm]

North of Carlisle the line winds around the hills and is very bad. From memory its 'best' nearest the shop.. Otherwise travel a combination of LM and TPE on WCML?

Stugeron travel sickness pills work for me, as does focussing on a non moving object like my laptop. Otherwise I just accept it as a necessary evil. If I want fast travel I will feel crap....

Last time i was on a pendolino, i was absoloutely fine until preston, but afterwards until carlisle where i got off i felt extremely ill

Jack

 

[16CSVT2700]

I try to fall asleep so I dont notice the tilting.. either that or just avoid if at all possible!!

 

[don24]

it's 1/2 mv^2 hun

Although I'll admit I forgot to half the above values...

Ah yes

I think you were right with the original values. No need to halve the values.

First year of mechanical engineering is taking its toll on me.

 

[Nym]

You realy should know then I'm electrical engineering and I know that, lol

 

[don24]

You realy should know then I'm electrical engineering and I know that, lol

Yes thats true.

 

[Nym]

Apparently we annoy MechEngs when we try and ramp power plants quickly...

I'm on mechatronic, so I might be working on this tilting stuff at some point, oh dammit!

 

[djw1981]

Eus-Preston is relativley straight with less server curves and less S switchback curves. through the lakes as Southern Uplands, as far as carstairs, there are many S and switchback curves, where due to the tilt the movement is twice the magnitude of a single direction curve. Some of the curves in opposite directions follow on from each other, and the front of a train can be tilted the opposite way to the rear (with the middle being upright). Thus tight curves in opposite difrection is quick succession can lead to the devlopment of nausea where as a gentle curve followed by a straight followed by a curve the other way may not.

Just like walking around a playground roundabout won;t make you ill, but ridenear teh centre at high speed and you will....

IIRC through Abington in the Borders, teh track goes effectoively ~~~~~ over about 2 miles with teh train on a high tilt at each curve.

 

[John]

A known problem in all tilting trains is the fact that some people cannot cope with the tilting because the individuals centre of gravity and balance is controlled largely by bodily functions of balance in the ears and vision - thus when you lose sight of the horizon for instance your body tries to respond and causes (in some cases) dizziness, nausea and sickness.

 

[Darren Reynold]

I'm on one now, on the way from Manchester to London. I feel ill every time I travel on one. I used to be able to work on the train but not any more. Now it's dead time and I just spend the whole journey sweating and feeling like I want to get out. I can't think straight. It doesn't help that they're so damned hot inside. There's hot air blowing up from under the tables all the time. I travel less as a result, though sometimes I make the effort to use the east cost line instead.

 

[Multiple Unit]

I was on the 11:11 Crewe-Warrington etc just before New Year and Was worked by a 390 and it did feel pretty ruff on the way Between Crewe & Warrington though pretty sure this was 390010 as well so may be a slight suspension problem it had been suffering from.

 

[poshbakerloo]

I've been on 390s several times and never suffered from this!

 

[northwichcat]

Is there anyone who gets travel sickess on a 390 a regular traveller on them?

I'm just thinking when 142s returned to the West Country a couple of years ago the media made a big fuss about them being old trains that cause travel sickness. Now I hadn't previously heard travel sickness as being a problem with 142 travel so I think it's more down to some people in the West Country not being used to trains that don't provide smooth rides.

The OP says 221s aren't as bad so they do have the options of:
* Virgin Voyager to Birmingham & Chiltern to London
* Any train to Edinburgh & East Coast HST to London

 

[The 158 Man]

The windows are pretty small on a Pendo aren't they? Perhaps you were feeling a little claustrophobic?

 

[LWB]

So, it would appear, the poor APT was a national laughing stock because a few rat-a**ed hacks got sick and yet 25 years later, the much-vaunted Italian technology of the bearded one produces ... well, exactly the same effect and we have to endure it

 

[WillPS]

So, it would appear, the poor APT was a national laughing stock because a few rat-a**ed hacks got sick and yet 25 years later, the much-vaunted Italian technology of the bearded one produces ... well, exactly the same effect and we have to endure it

The tilting mechanism in use today is a direct result of the research by BR up to the mid-80s. It was sold to an Italian company for basically nothing.