Pendolino Test Ride - Mixed success

[shakey1961]

Hi all.

A while back I asked for advice regarding my attempts to start using the WCML and high speed trains as I'd not been on one, and my last attempt in Sept 2009 left me not feeling too good as I was travelling backwards.

Well... I finally did the trip. I have an app on my phone so I can see the speed we were doing. First attempt was approx. a month ago when I took a TPE 185 from Preston to Wigan. Lovely smooth ride at 100mph, first time I'd been on one of those too. So we gets to Wigan, it was a rainy day and our Pendolino duly arrived and I found a forward facing seat. And off we jolly well go. No problem as we get up to a top speed of 116mph. We arrive at Preston and I'm duly pleased with my success.

Wanting to build on that success, we do the same journey again last Thursday (27 Aug). We board a Northern Rail train in service for TPE. God what a bloody racket!! It was making one hell of a noise at only 85mph, was glad to get off at Wigan.

So we board our Pendolino back and once again and get a forward facing window seat. Get my app running and lo and behold we are running at full speed of 124mph! Trouble was this time I wasn't a happy bunny at all. Off we jolly well go round the bends and here's little old me getting dizzy and my heart is starting to race. Pleased once again to be at Preston, but only because I was glad I was off the thing!!

So that's the explanation of my journeys so far. Now I have a question or two.

The first difference I can think is, if I remember correctly, was my original journey a month ago was nearer the rear of the train, and the second I felt I was nearer the middle. Is that going to have any effect?

Secondly, the difference between 116mph and 124mph, only 8mph, but is that enough to set me off?

Thirdly, the windows on a Pendolino, while not small, are not as big as like the class 350's I've tried on the Liverpool - Birmingham route. I feel much better with a huge window I can look out of.

Finally, am I sadly just not suited to that kind of travel? Do I have a too sensitive balance mechanism in my ears?

It's a pity as I would like to travel on them more.

Many thanks for reading. I look forward to your replies.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Just a small point, the route between Wigan and Preston is fairly straight and the Pendolinos would not be tilting as much as they do on some sections of the WCML.
There are half a dozen locations for maximum tilt in places like Whitmore (south of Crewe), Lichfield etc, but I don't think there are any of these between Warrington and Lancaster.

The best seats on a Pendolino are those called "Priority Seats" which have more leg room.
I usually try for the very first/last Priority seats on the train in Coach A, which have good wide views outside and down the coach.
That might help to reduce any motion problems.

All trains vary in their ambience, even within a class.
I find the TPE 350s wobble ("hunt") at maximum speed, on tracks where Pendolinos are quite smooth and have a much better ride.
And we all know that a 75mph Pacer can be a very rough ride on some types of track.
On the same route, Voyagers have bigger windows which might seem better, but they also have a jiggly ride which reduces the score for me.
You sometimes find that the coach you are in has a "flat" wheel - a noisy thumping at each revolution because of braking damage. Best avoided if you get one of these.
Sometimes you get squealing brakes too, and new trains have mysterious alarm tones which go off when people press the wrong buttons in the toilet!
None of these things helps if you are nervous about travel, but if you know about them in advance it helps.
It's a bit like the weird noises planes make when landing or taking off - worrying at first but fine when you know what is going on.

The Northern train would be flattered to be told it was doing 85mph!
156s can only do 75mph. But it feels faster with all the wind noise!

I hope you are not put off trains by your experience.
Eventually you get to know the foibles of each type of rolling stock and can choose the ones you like, and the best seats to aim for.

 

[Bertie the bus]

I'm not sure why you would want to travel on Pendolinos more as the experience is very poor - claustrophobic, smelly (though they've almost sorted that out) and dark and dinghy, but if you do then just travelling for 10 minutes from Wigan - Preston seems like a strange thing to do.

Travel sickness is not unusual on a Pendolino. It has nothing to do with the size of the windows but the tilt. I've felt queezy several times and in my time I have seen 2 children be physically sick whilst travelling on one. As I've probably made fewer than 200 journeys I presume this must mean it is pretty much a daily event.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Hi all.

A while back I asked for advice regarding my attempts to start using the WCML and high speed trains as I'd not been on one, and my last attempt in Sept 2009 left me not feeling too good as I was travelling backwards.

Well... I finally did the trip. I have an app on my phone so I can see the speed we were doing. First attempt was approx. a month ago when I took a TPE 185 from Preston to Wigan. Lovely smooth ride at 100mph, first time I'd been on one of those too. So we gets to Wigan, it was a rainy day and our Pendolino duly arrived and I found a forward facing seat. And off we jolly well go. No problem as we get up to a top speed of 116mph. We arrive at Preston and I'm duly pleased with my success.

Wanting to build on that success, we do the same journey again last Thursday (27 Aug). We board a Northern Rail train in service for TPE. God what a bloody racket!! It was making one hell of a noise at only 85mph, was glad to get off at Wigan.

So we board our Pendolino back and once again and get a forward facing window seat. Get my app running and lo and behold we are running at full speed of 124mph! Trouble was this time I wasn't a happy bunny at all. Off we jolly well go round the bends and here's little old me getting dizzy and my heart is starting to race. Pleased once again to be at Preston, but only because I was glad I was off the thing!!

So that's the explanation of my journeys so far. Now I have a question or two.

The first difference I can think is, if I remember correctly, was my original journey a month ago was nearer the rear of the train, and the second I felt I was nearer the middle. Is that going to have any effect?

Secondly, the difference between 116mph and 124mph, only 8mph, but is that enough to set me off

Was by any chance the second Pendolino busier than the first one? They do feel much more claustrophobic when full, much like a narrow body airliner does.

Secondly that was good going for a 156 dmu, I think the top end is only 75mph. but then again these GPS devices aren't always to be trusted, finally what speed app do you use? as mine will not function on 390s or 220/1 units.

 

[PeterY]

There furthest I've been on a Pendolino is Rugby from Euston. Knowing the southern end of the WCML very well, it helps knowing where the sharpest curves are. Berkhamsted, Linslade, Wolverton and the Weedon. I love the sensation of them going around the corners. My only gripe is the seats don't match the windows.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'm not sure why you would want to travel on Pendolinos more as the experience is very poor - claustrophobic, smelly (though they've almost sorted that out) and dark and dinghy, but if you do then just travelling for 10 minutes from Wigan - Preston seems like a strange thing to do.

Travel sickness is not unusual on a Pendolino. It has nothing to do with the size of the windows but the tilt. I've felt queezy several times and in my time I have seen 2 children be physically sick whilst travelling on one. As I've probably made fewer than 200 journeys I presume this must mean it is pretty much a daily event.

That should cheer him up a lot!

 

[Howardh]

What is the alternative to tilting trains to get speeds of 125? Completely redesigned and rebuilt tracks so they are angled at curves?

 

[47271]

Similar themes are discussed at some length in this

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=119924

current thread. It starts off specifically discussing Virgin First Class but soon draws many comparisons which may be useful to the OP.

 

[thenorthern]

So that's the explanation of my journeys so far. Now I have a question or two.

The first difference I can think is, if I remember correctly, was my original journey a month ago was nearer the rear of the train, and the second I felt I was nearer the middle. Is that going to have any effect?

It can do as some coaches don't have driving motors underneath them which means the coach doesn't vibrate as much and the nose and vibration from the motors can affect passenger comfort.

Secondly, the difference between 116mph and 124mph, only 8mph, but is that enough to set me off?

That variation in speed itself shouldn't set you off most of the time the angles of the tilt and the bend is what makes people feel ill. The high speed though as a whole does make the corners worse for some people.

Thirdly, the windows on a Pendolino, while not small, are not as big as like the class 350's I've tried on the Liverpool - Birmingham route. I feel much better with a huge window I can look out of.

That is the case with many people, I know in many people who feel motion sickness simply looking out of the window can relive some of the symptoms. The small windows on Pendolinos though is a problem a lot of passengers complain about.

Finally, am I sadly just not suited to that kind of travel? Do I have a too sensitive balance mechanism in my ears?

That could be the case I know when the Inter-City APT was being tested many of the people on board felt rather ill as they anticipated a corner but it didn't feel quite right as the train tilted. With more travel though you may get used it.

I personally have a medical condition called Sensory Processing Disorder which one of the symptoms is I can't physically get dizzy so I never have any problems traveling on Pendolinos but I meet many people who do.

With motion sickness though there are many things the can make it better or worse, some have mentioned that Pendolinos are cramped and stuffy which along with the windows make it worse. I find as well if the Air Conditioning is on or not it seems to affect how I feel on board the train also what I have eaten, how tired I am and what mood I am in. Its all down to the circumstances.

 

[Ash Bridge]

What is the alternative to tilting trains to get speeds of 125? Completely redesigned and rebuilt tracks so they are angled at curves?

The Intercity 125 or HST

(Sorry did you mean on the WCML)

 

[WatcherZero]

With me the only thing that makes me travel sick is attempting to read while in a car, I can read perfectly fine on a train 99% of the time however I am rarely afflicted and its usually due to peripheral vision.

What sets a lot of people off isn't the bumps or curves but attempting to keep their vision fixed on an unmoving point in the vehicles so that they don't see the bumps and jolts their body tells them they are experiencing.

Compare where you were looking between the various journeys, were you spending more time looking outside the train compared to others.

 

[Howardh]

The Intercity 125 or HST

(Sorry did you mean on the WCML)

er, yes!

 

[nuneatonmark]

I really can't see what everyone dislikes about the Pendos. I have travelled 1000s of miles on them up and down the WCML and find them great. Much better ride than the Mk2/3s I used to travel on on the WCML. I love the way they swoosh around the bends. The only drawback over the original mk2/3s is that not all the seats are lined up against windows but even that stopped when Mk 3s were changed.

 

[shakey1961]

Thanks for all the replies. I have read other threads on here and it seems "Pendolino Sickness" is not uncommon.

The App I use on my Android Phone is called Ulysse Speedometer. I did have trouble getting a GPS signal the second time around.

Looks like I'm one of the people who can't cope with them. Still, I'll keep doing the same journey and see if I find it better or worse at different places on board.

 

[thenorthern]

Thanks for all the replies. I have read other threads on here and it seems "Pendolino Sickness" is not uncommon.

The App I use on my Android Phone is called Ulysse Speedometer. I did have trouble getting a GPS signal the second time around.

Looks like I'm one of the people who can't cope with them. Still, I'll keep doing the same journey and see if I find it better or worse at different places on board.

Try sitting in Coaches C, E or U as they are the Standard Class coaches without motors underneath them.

 

[6Gman]

Thanks for all the replies. I have read other threads on here and it seems "Pendolino Sickness" is not uncommon.

The App I use on my Android Phone is called Ulysse Speedometer. I did have trouble getting a GPS signal the second time around.

Looks like I'm one of the people who can't cope with them. Still, I'll keep doing the same journey and see if I find it better or worse at different places on board.

Looking out of the window to enjoy the journey might be better than looking at an app!

I'm not the world's best traveller but find Pendolinos (and Voyagers) fine on tilt.

 

[LeylandLen]

I happen to like Pendelinos for my monthly trips from Preston or Manchester to Euston and back. As some can be 11 coaches long, the experience of your trip obviously depends where you sit on the train . It does help to note which coach / carriage you are in!
I find most reserved seats are occupied in coaches A,B,C especially on weekend London Glasgow services , although I now understand you can chose where you want a reserved seat esp if you want a window seat. So A B C maybe D could be almost full with reserved seats , whereas coaches E F G and U are not so full .

 

[hassaanhc]

In the last 2 weeks I've made journeys on:
Chiltern Mk3 set
Two Class 444 Desiros
Class 220 and 221 Voyager (XC)
One Pendolino

I sat over a bogie on all of them at some point in each journey, a location in the coach where the ride can be very lively at times. The Voyagers had the best ride quality, can't think of any train where the ride was this good over a bogie. The Mk3 coaches were very good too. But both the Pendolino and the Desiros (in that order) had a lot of sideways hunting when sat over the bogie. Previously on a Desiro I did get a headache as a result of that, while on a Pendolino it does make me feel ill when combined with the tilt. Even more so if in a driving coach of a Pendolino.

However, when sitting in the middle of the carriage, which I only got to do so with the Desiros and Pendolino, it was the Desiros that came out on top. The Pendolino was still more lively, not as much as over a bogie, but still. I do think the Mk3 and Voyagers would have been closer to a Desiro in this list.

When it comes to the tilt itself, I find that it is important to:
Have a full window view.
Sit facing the direction of travel.
Sit in the rear half of the coach, but aim for the centre first.
Do not sit in a driving coach.
Not look downwards.

As for the air conditioning, the Voyagers seemed to be chucking out quite stale air, and I didn't feel very well in my 40-60 minute journeys. There was no noticeable toilet smell away from the vestibules. The Pendolino wasn't that much better, but the Mk3 and the Desiros had good fresh air conditioning. However, usually I do prefer an open window over air conditioning, which is why I went for a Northern 323 between Stoke on Trent and Macclesfield, despite both Voyagers stopping at Macclesfield. More locally, on the Hounslow Loop line I try to aim for a service that uses 455s, or on the London area GWML stoppers a 165 or 360, and avoiding 166s wherever possible (didn't manage it last week though on compulsory moves ).

 

[Monkey Magic]

I do find that I always get a headache on the Voyagers. I am not sure if it is the stale air. I find that I get the same on 444 and 450 as well. HSTs, 165/166, 180, I don't seem to have the same problem.

 

[najaB]

I sat over a bogie on all of them at some point in each journey, a location in the coach where the ride can be very lively at times. The Voyagers had the best ride quality, can't think of any train where the ride was this good over a bogie.

Interesting you say that, I travelled in a Mk.4, Voyager, Meridian and Class 321 today and I found the that the Voyager had the worst ride. Obviously track properties will play a big part in that but I would take the Mk.4 over the Voyager.

 

[Bald Rick]

I get dreadful motion sickness on ships (especially), planes, helicopters, buses and cars (if not driving). But rarely on trains, and never on pendolini. For the other forms of transport, I have to be looking out of a window to keep it at bay. And for ships, nothing less than being outside on deck, gripping the barrier, whatever the weather.

My advice would be to keep looking out of the window in a generally forward direction. And take ginger extract - old wives tale perhaps, but it definitely helps me.

 

[thenorthern]

With Pendolinos as a whole though its personal preference, personally I love them although they do get quite an occasional bashing by on this forum by some other members.

Many of the issues people have though I think are down to the fact that they were the first electric tilting trains built for Great Britain specifications which meant during design and construction Alstom has very little experience for the market they were building for. If an when a new generation of tilting train is built I think many of the problems the Pendolino and the Voyager have had will be ironed out.