Yeah, it is rather convoluted, isn't it?
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People locking themselves in the toilet when I need to use it
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BrendaRobinson
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How do you think all national opinion polls work FFS?
You interview 500 people in a pro-Remain area ("excuse me Sir, do you believe that this Government has the ability to secure a favourable exit agreeement from the EU?")
And then you publish the "results" that 98% of the UK population don't believe that the Government are "doing right" by Britain. Ergo, you extrapolate the findings of 500 people to somehow represent the views of 60 million.
Disclaimer: my son-in-law works for the Daily Mail and told me exactly how these things work.
Esker-pades
Established Member
That'll be why in the 2015 general election, 2017 general election, 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum and 2016 EU Referendum the opinion polls were so bang on the money.
A few years ago I told the guard about someone occupying the toilet for half an hour. The guard opened up and found the passenger inside had collapsed after a heart attack. So - always worth reporting once a reasonable length of time has elapsed.
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
From my point of view....
If something like this was happening on my train, I would certainly hope that you will come forward and report it to me.
As I have often said on here, If I do not know about it, I cannot do anything about it. So it's about time you bemoaners on here start seeking out the train manager to solve these issues while you still have a train manager on board capable off solving these issues. Our days are numbered after all so prove our worth and use us!
Wether that individual had a medical issue or is a JD loving scroat hell bent on bunking their fare doesnt matter. That should be up to me to investigate and decide based on the facts, not on a pre-judging T-key bearing individual complaining because they were beaten to the only working toilet by someone with a pair of speedier sticks than themselves! (With honourable reference to one of our regular contributors!)
Speak out. If you see it say it. Report it and we will sort it. If we don't know anything about it, we cannot do anything about it!
If something like this was happening on my train, I would certainly hope that you will come forward and report it to me.
As I have often said on here, If I do not know about it, I cannot do anything about it. So it's about time you bemoaners on here start seeking out the train manager to solve these issues while you still have a train manager on board capable off solving these issues. Our days are numbered after all so prove our worth and use us!
Wether that individual had a medical issue or is a JD loving scroat hell bent on bunking their fare doesnt matter. That should be up to me to investigate and decide based on the facts, not on a pre-judging T-key bearing individual complaining because they were beaten to the only working toilet by someone with a pair of speedier sticks than themselves! (With honourable reference to one of our regular contributors!)
Speak out. If you see it say it. Report it and we will sort it. If we don't know anything about it, we cannot do anything about it!
Out of interest, why do you think you're not allowed?
433N
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There are people who fare dodge in toilets - there are people who genuinely need to use the toilet for a long time.
I would add though, that as someone who has lived with inflammatory bowel disease for a long time and had multiple surgeries, the thought that if I need to go to the toilet and it is occupied that I will have the time (or inclination) to seek out a member of staff is seriously misguided. To be honest, I don't know what I will do, although my life obviously involves alot of contingency planning (but I try to keep it to a minimum or I'd become obsessive and never go out).
As a member of the National Association for Crohns and Colitis, I have a 'Can't Wait' card, perhaps I'd try slipping that under the door to appeal to the person inside ... but the clue is in the phrase 'Can't Wait'.
PS : I certainly wouldn't take my wife / a friend in with me ; when I go to the toilet, frankly, I'd prefer myself not to be in there with me.
PPS : And yes, the NACC have been quite instrumental in getting all of those 'Not all disabilities can be seen' notices in supermarkets because of the funny looks and comments members get when using Disabled Toilets ; though I do fear it heralding open season for use of Disabled Toilets (which I rarely use, tbh).
I would add though, that as someone who has lived with inflammatory bowel disease for a long time and had multiple surgeries, the thought that if I need to go to the toilet and it is occupied that I will have the time (or inclination) to seek out a member of staff is seriously misguided. To be honest, I don't know what I will do, although my life obviously involves alot of contingency planning (but I try to keep it to a minimum or I'd become obsessive and never go out).
As a member of the National Association for Crohns and Colitis, I have a 'Can't Wait' card, perhaps I'd try slipping that under the door to appeal to the person inside ... but the clue is in the phrase 'Can't Wait'.
PS : I certainly wouldn't take my wife / a friend in with me ; when I go to the toilet, frankly, I'd prefer myself not to be in there with me.
PPS : And yes, the NACC have been quite instrumental in getting all of those 'Not all disabilities can be seen' notices in supermarkets because of the funny looks and comments members get when using Disabled Toilets ; though I do fear it heralding open season for use of Disabled Toilets (which I rarely use, tbh).
I understand where you’re coming from (really I do...), however, loads of times the toilets aren’t in use anyway, so how would you cope in this instance? Some toilets on my TOC’s stock just say ‘engaged’ rather than ‘not in use’ too, even when they are out of order due to a fault or whatever (or need emptying), which can confuse matters when otherwise believing a toilet is occupied.
433N
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Ask the NACC for another 'Can't Wait' card ?
As I say, seriously, I don't know, it hasn't happened. To be blunt, it would be a choice between soiling myself (most sufferers and/or people with stoma carry spare clothing anyway) or squatting in a corner with a plastic bag and bog paper (most sufferers and/or people with stoma carry bog roll and plastic bags anyway). And yes, I would probably get alot of funny looks, tutting and general disdain. But, to be honest, given how much I have coped with in my life, the disapproval of other people doesn't really bother me. I'm just sort of grateful to still be alive.
221129
Established Member
Is this for real? It should be obvious why a member of the public would not be allowed to go about randomly opening doors or cabinets on a train...
The OP could text the BTP on 61016, and if there are any BTP on the line of route that aren’t tied up they might investigate, alternatively the BTP might delegate it down to the TOCs equivalent of travel safe/community officers. Even if no one attends it can help build a picture of antisocial behaviour.
Going back to the argument about how is it acceptable to judge people etc, fare evaiders that hide in the toilets tend to carry themselves and dress themselves in a certain way, tracksuits, baseball cap, sly body language. That doesn’t mean however that a person with those traits can’t have a medical condition.
The role of any type of public facing job is based on experience and stereotypes, a young person in first class, a person in a shop who you suspect of shop lifting, occasionally you’ll be wrong, the majority of the time you’ll be right. The important thing is that initially you treat people the same until the facts can be clarified.
Going back to the argument about how is it acceptable to judge people etc, fare evaiders that hide in the toilets tend to carry themselves and dress themselves in a certain way, tracksuits, baseball cap, sly body language. That doesn’t mean however that a person with those traits can’t have a medical condition.
The role of any type of public facing job is based on experience and stereotypes, a young person in first class, a person in a shop who you suspect of shop lifting, occasionally you’ll be wrong, the majority of the time you’ll be right. The important thing is that initially you treat people the same until the facts can be clarified.
221129
Established Member
I'd be very weary of using stereotypes in this sort of situation.
If there's a guard on board it's their job to approach the situation with an element of tact. I never have any issue with opening the toilet door if I have to, it always involves plenty of warning and if it does turn out to be a fare evading scrote then I invariably throw them off the train afterwards. Recently I had to resort to throwing their belongings off first.
I can understand why other colleagues may be a bit more reticent to take a confrontational approach but I've never had much to fear about physical assault from individuals and occupying the only toilet on board to evade your fare (particularly for an extended period) crosses the line from passive fare evasion to aggravated where they're potentially doing harm to others in the process.
Of course if it turns out not to be a fare evader (I believe this has only happened to me twice in a few years) a sincere apology and explanation of the situation has invariably been accepted with good grace.
I can understand why other colleagues may be a bit more reticent to take a confrontational approach but I've never had much to fear about physical assault from individuals and occupying the only toilet on board to evade your fare (particularly for an extended period) crosses the line from passive fare evasion to aggravated where they're potentially doing harm to others in the process.
Of course if it turns out not to be a fare evader (I believe this has only happened to me twice in a few years) a sincere apology and explanation of the situation has invariably been accepted with good grace.
I like to call it ‘profiling’....
Rail Blues
Member
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- 608
As someone with IBS, i sympathise to a degree, bit i can quite legitimately spend lengthy periods in the train toilet and have had people banging on the door and - believe it or not - i don't yell a breakdown of my medical history through the door to a random member of the public.
in your hypothetical scenario, i wouldn't appreciate someone forcibly opening the door as they assume I'm fare dodging, acting as judge or jury and forcing the door. Also, said hypothetical person runs a real risk of being investigated as sexual predator, forcing doors to find people (and potentially under 16s) in a state of undress, may be seen as highly suspicious by onboard staff and the police, especially if you're using a homemade tool specifically for that purpose.
He'd be in for a painful surprise if he ever pulled a stunt like that on me. If he did it to a woman, he'd likely be signing the sex offenders register.
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More interestingly, do you believe it is allowed?
And let's put it back into the context given... it's not a random cabinet on a train, and the toilet door doesn't say it's out of use.
Rather like having a radar key no?
Or an off duty ticket inspector using their key to let themselves through a ticket barrier perhaps.
What I am suggesting is there may be some sort of "you shouldn't do it" thought about but from what the OP asked, there would be nothing stopping them (and I don't think any law would be broken?) opening the door with a T-key if they felt they should need to.
An excellent question :P
I don't think there's anything stopping me but I wouldn't be in that situation as in all my travelling life, I've used train toilets less than 10 times.
Don't get, me wrong though, I'm not one of those people who needs a sign to tell me what I can and can't do. However if someone is clearly doing something "wrong" then if someone else wants to use an unconventional method to stop that, it's fine with me.
But there are other situational conditions that must be met before.
Yet strangely probably not if it was the other way round.
I mean, in this day and age of equality and what not... we're so far from it.
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Belperpete
Established Member
- Joined
- 17 Aug 2018
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- 1,650
No - the toilet clearly says that it is engaged, and the OP clearly knows that there is someone in there. What the OP thinks they may or may not be doing in there is pure supposition. Opening the door so that he can have a look for himself at what someone is doing in a toilet is clearly not acceptable. Just imagine if you pulled that kind of stunt in a public toilet. The police would have you up on a public order offence in no time.
If anyone other than the guard were to try that kind of stunt on me, I would pull the communication cord and demand the police be called to deal with the pervert.
MonsooN
Member
Something else that hasn't yet been mentioned is that sometimes you can go to the toilet in a busy service and find a queue of people waiting in line to use it. What do you do in those situations if you're desperate? Would you get the others in the queue to let you go in first? Would they all be happy to let you queue jump if it meant they'd be waiting even longer to use the toilet?
I agree with the majority here though that attempting to gain access to the toilet yourself is unacceptable and could land you in trouble.
If I was in the OP's position, I would probably knock first (assuming it had been at least 10 minutes) and ask if everything was OK. If I got no response, I'd probably seek a guard. The thing is though, how do you know that by the time you've sought out the guard, the original occupant hasn't left the toilet and someone else has gone in?
I agree with the majority here though that attempting to gain access to the toilet yourself is unacceptable and could land you in trouble.
If I was in the OP's position, I would probably knock first (assuming it had been at least 10 minutes) and ask if everything was OK. If I got no response, I'd probably seek a guard. The thing is though, how do you know that by the time you've sought out the guard, the original occupant hasn't left the toilet and someone else has gone in?
bramling
Veteran Member
Whilst I don’t approve of the idea of taking matters into one’s own hands and getting into the toilet using a key or whatever, this thread has got a little over emotive with talk of sex offending and perverts. The OP’s situation is certainly an understandably frustrating one, but unfortunately there’s not that much that can readily be done about it.
TurbostarFan
On Moderation
Nonsense, they had every right to be in the toilet at the same time as long as neither party was taken hostage or falsely imprisoned.
TurbostarFan
On Moderation
I would suspect number 3. I would let the BTP know by sending a text message to 61016 rather than interfering myself because I'm not a Police officer or member of railway staff. Simple as that. See it. Say it. Sorted.
One may need assistance in toileting or washing.
Mutant Lemming
Established Member
Father assisting mother to change baby's nappy in the on board accessible toilet would sound a pretty valid reason.
Esker-pades
Established Member
I don't know why you quoted my post to say that. Could you explain please?
Mutant Lemming
Established Member
Probably meant to be another post but by frail old digits are failing eyesight may have led me astray.
Esker-pades
Established Member
Fair enough. No problem. I agree with your original point.
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