Pet Projects

[GingerSte]

Hi,

As you're probably aware, I'm new to this forum. I'm a civil engineer by trade (mainly bridges and stations) and I paid my way through uni by working as a CSA for GNER, so I've seen the railway from different angles.

In my experience, railway folk are a bit of a breed apart. They love the railway, and quite often they have their own ideas about how to make the railways better. I have my own "Pet projects" aswell (mainly grade separating junctions to avoid conflicting moves, but there are others). So I was wondering, which projects would you like to see come to fruition? What new/reopened chord or railway line, longer platform or faster line speed would you like to see?

I'll add a couple of my ideas when I've seen yours.

GingerSte.

 

[HITMAN]

When the money comes into existance;
-155mph upgrade of the ECML with tilting trains
-140mph running on parts of the GWML
-HS2 to be extended in two prongs, one to Leeds via Sheffield and Derby, 2nd to Glasgow and Edinburgh via Manchester
-140mph Pendolino's running on the GWML coupled with electrification as far as Penzance
-Replacement of the 317/9's from the WAML with something quieter and more comfortable
- Intergration of Euston, Kings cross and St Pancras into a single Terminal station
-Electrification of the transpennine route

 

[asylumxl]

I like to pretend I'm a tad more realistic than most, being from a family with engineering background.

One thing I would like to see is investment in the Midland Main Line. I know NR has planned to increase linespeed to 125mph in places in the south, but I just can't help think that it's rather pointless due to the short length of the stretches with 125mph linespeed.

I'd rather see curves smoothed out further North and linespeeds increased, and 2 and 3 track sections brought up to 4 track. There is quite a few sections with 4 tracks but unfortunately they diverge into 2 or 3 tracks too often to be useful.

If I could get away with it, I would also electrify as far north as possible. It did seem a reality for a while, but unfortunately the idea was quickly withdrawn.

I'd like to see the Marston Vale line brought up to a higher linespeed with faster stock, and Bletchley and the flyover remodelled to allow the train to enter the right platforms and continue on to Milton Keynes Central.

 

[HITMAN]

It might be an idea to split the midland cities up, with Derby IC trains running down HS2 and the link between Nottingham and Peterborough enhanced an electrified to see fast trains run that way into Kings cross, then make MML more of a communter route with regular trains stopping more

 

[GingerSte]

Okay then a few of mine.

Firstly. Digswell Viaducr near Wellwyn Garden City up to four tracks (either through double decking or a parallel viaduct). Then continue four-tracking so everything between London and Peterborough is done.

Between Wakefield and Doncaster the line splits off for Sheffield. Trains travelling to Sheffield must cross the Down line. I would provide a bridge to prevent the conflicting move, and free up some capacity.

Get rid of enough bottlenecks on the ECML (southern section), and you should be able to run 12-15 fast trains per hour in each direction. This opens up possibilities for hourly trains to Bradford, Hull, and possibly even Sheffield via Grantham, Nottingham and Derby. If Sheffield moves over to the ECML, this would create capacity on the MML.

Also between Wakefield and Sheffield, four-track the line between Swinton and where it splits off for Rotherham. Trains from Doncaster to Sheffield can use this section and the Don Valley line without any conflicting moves IF you then open up the northern approach to Sheffield station from two to four tracks. This last bit will be difficult, but it's only a short section and some of the bridges above it don't carry any traffic anyway.

Next up, rebuild the Cross Gates - Wetherby - Harrogate Line. There's 20,000 people in Wetherby, the majority of which will be commuters. A good link into Leeds would make a fortune from them I bet.

Elsewhere, try and get an extra two tracks into Birmingham New Street from the east. I know the Bullring has made things difficult, but there must be a way!

 

[LE Greys]

At the top of this thread

Second post on this page

Plus an idea (probably defunct by now) for a new tunnel from St Pancras LL to Blackfriars or London Bridge via Chancery Lane, speeding up Thameslink by eliminating sharp curves and conflicting moves. Re-electrify Pentonville Road-Moorgate with third rail, and extend it up to South Hampstead, diverting the Euston d.c. services into Moorgate and allowing freight to run through central London to Wembley Yard.

Also, quadruple Shenfield-Colchester. Associated with that, connect Stansted and Braintree using the old route through Great Dunmow.

 

[jopsuk]

Level crossings. On busy lines, more than fast ones, they're a problem. They restrict capacity on both road and rail. The friction between the two modes leads to pedestrians and drivers becoming frustrated and doing stupid things- dangerous things. But really, it's the capacity. Much the same problem as flat junctions.

Not every crossing can realistically be replaced- some in town are just too impossibly hemmed in. Out in the fens, the rail and road are often both on embankments- putting the road under would require cars to have SCUBA equipment, and bridges would be insanely large. On quiet and/or slow lines, they're not such a problem.

 

[tbtc]

Simple things like these (grade separated junctions etc) would make a bigger difference than megabucks schemes IMHO. Also...

1. Single track bottlenecks like Dore station and the Holmes chord (outside Rotherham) - both have around three trains in each direction, so a very tight timescale.

2. Local stations on Main lines (like Chester le Street/ Morpeth/ Drem/ Prestonpans etc on the ECML) should be built as loops, so intercity trains can overtake here. There are a lot of stations where a late running long distance service gets stuck behind an "all stops" but has to trundle behind as it stops at South Gyle/ Kinghorn etc

3. Put back old loops. Rationalisation means often getting two tracks in the centre of what used to be a four track line (e.g. the line from Sheffield through Millhouses to the Dore junction). It might slow the main line down slightly, since the allignement is sometimes faster now since it can curve better

4. Get rid of flat junctions with conflicting movements (like the Moorthorpe one mentioned above). Imagine Newark without the need to limit ECML services for Lincoln bound Sprinters?Or the Grantham - Peterborough line without northbound ECML services restricted by the southbound Liverpool - Norwich having to cross the northbound ECML track twice...

 

[GingerSte]

Simple things like these (grade separated junctions etc) would make a bigger difference than megabucks schemes IMHO. Also...

1. Single track bottlenecks like Dore station and the Holmes chord (outside Rotherham) - both have around three trains in each direction, so a very tight timescale.

2. Local stations on Main lines (like Chester le Street/ Morpeth/ Drem/ Prestonpans etc on the ECML) should be built as loops, so intercity trains can overtake here. There are a lot of stations where a late running long distance service gets stuck behind an "all stops" but has to trundle behind as it stops at South Gyle/ Kinghorn etc

3. Put back old loops. Rationalisation means often getting two tracks in the centre of what used to be a four track line (e.g. the line from Sheffield through Millhouses to the Dore junction). It might slow the main line down slightly, since the allignement is sometimes faster now since it can curve better

4. Get rid of flat junctions with conflicting movements (like the Moorthorpe one mentioned above). Imagine Newark without the need to limit ECML services for Lincoln bound Sprinters?Or the Grantham - Peterborough line without northbound ECML services restricted by the southbound Liverpool - Norwich having to cross the northbound ECML track twice...

I would like to see at least one extra track between Dore and Sheffield, so that Manchester and MML services could be seperated.

 

[Trog]

I like to pretend I'm a tad more realistic than most, being from a family with engineering background.

I'd like to see the Marston Vale line brought up to a higher linespeed with faster stock, and Bletchley and the flyover remodelled to allow the train to enter the right platforms and continue on to Milton Keynes Central.

Sorry but what is realistic about a linespeed higher than 60MPH for a sixteen mile branchline with as many stops as the BBM has?

Also how is remodelling the flyover going to help run a train from Bedford to Milton Keynes? As the flyover is on the oou route towards Aylesbury and Bicester. To run a train from Bedford to Milton Keynes via Bletchley without reversing, you would have to demolish half of Bletchley (small loss) to lay in a big loop from Fenny Stratford joining the WCML with a north facing junction at Water Eaton. Hardly worth the effort for a service that only runs to a one coach dog box.

 

[tbtc]

I would like to see at least one extra track between Dore and Sheffield, so that Manchester and MML services could be seperated.

It'd make things so much simpler; there's no scope for a Voyager to overtake a Pacer at the moment

 

[WatcherZero]

My pet project would be to integrate Wigan North Western and Wigan Wallgate into one station rather than being 200m apart across a road. Simplest way would simply be to move Wallgates platforms level with North Western and build a common departure hall on the car park.

Second project would be to convert the Atherton line to tram or tram-train to achieve better frequencies due to the low BCR of updating its present large absoloute block's signalling that massivley limits tph.

Third would be some faster transpennine connection.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Simple things like these (grade separated junctions etc) would make a bigger difference than megabucks schemes IMHO. Also...

1. Single track bottlenecks like Dore station

3. Put back old loops. Rationalisation means often getting two tracks in the centre of what used to be a four track line (e.g. the line from Sheffield through Millhouses to the Dore junction). It might slow the main line down slightly, since the allignement is sometimes faster now since it can curve better

Dore as you will know will have an extra platform in 2013-14 , If this was in the London area it would have been done by now !!!

As for the 4 tracks from Millhouses to Dore Jct a large number of people would still like to see the Supertram come down the line via Heeley

 

[Wyvern]

More diversionary routes to alleviate problems which at the moment paralyse large chunks of the network.

These would also simplify organising maintenance and repairs and speed them up.

Do they still close the Brighton line down twice a year with fleets of buses at tremendous expense? Why not put in a curve to allow diversion via Lewes

Or a curve at Stenson Junction to allow diversions around Spondon to travel into Derby without having to stand on the Birmingham main line while the driver changes ends. There is possibly scope for local service for, for instance, Heatheron Village, to help pay for it and Castle Donington would make an ideal stop for the airport or Donington Park. Indeed there is possibly room to build a spur. Possibly mail and freight to the airport? How does Rolls Royce transport its engines?

I'd like to see the planners keep the track bed of the old Melbourne branch clear as far as Chellaston to allow for a future tram service once petrol reaches £20 a litre and public transport becomes fashionable.

 

[thefab444]

Trains semi-regularly divert via Lewes if the Brighton line is shut south of Haywards Heath. If south of Three Bridges then they divert via Horsham and Worthing.

 

[Wyvern]

Trains semi-regularly divert via Lewes if the Brighton line is shut south of Haywards Heath. If south of Three Bridges then they divert via Horsham and Worthing.

Ah right. I'm not down that way so regularly nowadays

 

[asylumxl]

Sorry but what is realistic about a linespeed higher than 60MPH for a sixteen mile branchline with as many stops as the BBM has?

Also how is remodelling the flyover going to help run a train from Bedford to Milton Keynes? As the flyover is on the oou route towards Aylesbury and Bicester. To run a train from Bedford to Milton Keynes via Bletchley without reversing, you would have to demolish half of Bletchley (small loss) to lay in a big loop from Fenny Stratford joining the WCML with a north facing junction at Water Eaton. Hardly worth the effort for a service that only runs to a one coach dog box.

You don't think I know that Bletchley would need to be knocked down ? I'd just like a good link between WCML and MML. And regarding run into MKC, LM & NR seemed to think it was viable, they built a platform at MKC for it.

 

[jopsuk]

Drem and Prestonpans were mentioned- another of mine would be loops Drem-Musselburgh stations plus an additional Portobello station, a second loop platform at Dunbar.
Then:
additional looped stations East Linton, Cockburnspath and Ayton.
Additional platforms at Berwick
looped stations between Berwick and Alnwick, then loop the stations to Newcastle.

Could then run EITHER
Scotrail Edinburgh-Berwick and Northern Newcastle-Berwick services, using the additional platforms at berwick to terminate OR joint run services similar to the Stranraer-Newcastle services.

 

[j0hn0]

A comprehensive tram and metro system for each major city in the UK

HS2 - as defined by the government - looks fine to me

Upgrade Rugby flyover to 125mph running (like it shouldve been from the start of the upgrade)

4 track the remaining part of the trent valley line

4 track cov - brum

Electrify every mainline inc trans pennine

Lengthen all rush hour trains and commuter platforms

Upgrade ECML

Amalgamate northern london terminals (as said earlier)

 

[bluenoxid]

Hi,

As you're probably aware, I'm new to this forum. I'm a civil engineer by trade (mainly bridges and stations) and I paid my way through uni by working as a CSA for GNER, so I've seen the railway from different angles.

You still working in Civil Engineering?

Brilliant having pet projects but if it doesn't pass DaSTS post 2014 then it's not going to happen.

 

[Mojo]

Many people have commented on these long-distance projects, which of course yes are important, but one of the key issues affecting everyday lives for most of us, and our economy is the existance of high congestion in our core cities, towns and urban areas.

As such I think we need to look at making better use of our dormant or underused railway infrastructure which could, provided Network Rail becomes more efficient, provide for a lower cost and more attractive solution to urban congestion. In the long-term and when money becomes available I feel there is a scope for real innovation to move towards light rail technologies to improve the service further and provide a service which better represents modern demand rather than routes of demand created by the Victorians.

 

[LE Greys]

I'd like to see the Marston Vale line brought up to a higher linespeed with faster stock, and Bletchley and the flyover remodelled to allow the train to enter the right platforms and continue on to Milton Keynes Central.

I'd like to see that line extended all the way to Oxford with facilities for running through freight. This would mean that anything running from west of Didcot would head directly for Bedford rather than via Old Oak or Birmingham. Even better would be to link it all the way through to Cambridge, thus giving an alternative route from Felixstowe instead of the North London Line, as well as linking up five main lines for passenger services not via London. Add Stansted-Dunmow-Braintree, and that's six main lines. You might even end up with a full 'outer circle'.
Southend Victoria-Shenfield-Whitham-Stansted-Cambridge-Sandy-Bedford-Bletchley-Oxford-Reading-Guildford-Redhill-Tonbridge-Paddock Wood-Strood-Sittingbourne-Sheerness(-Where's the ferry )

Connecting St Alban's Abbey back to the MML would be a good idea as well, as would a link between Luton Airport and Langley Junction, thus allowing a service from Cambridge to Watford Junction. I'm not sure if it's possible to run onwards to Heathrow to replace the coach link, but I hate coach links when a railway could do the job much better.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Many people have commented on these long-distance projects, which of course yes are important, but one of the key issues affecting everyday lives for most of us, and our economy is the existance of high congestion in our core cities, towns and urban areas.

Which reminds me of the Birmingham Underground. I came up with the idea, but apparently there were plans for one recently. Really, more cities should have underground lines (Manchester for instance) or possibly buried main lines to avoid slow approaches to stations.

 

[j0hn0]

Many people have commented on these long-distance projects, which of course yes are important, but one of the key issues affecting everyday lives for most of us, and our economy is the existance of high congestion in our core cities, towns and urban areas.

As such I think we need to look at making better use of our dormant or underused railway infrastructure which could, provided Network Rail becomes more efficient, provide for a lower cost and more attractive solution to urban congestion. In the long-term and when money becomes available I feel there is a scope for real innovation to move towards light rail technologies to improve the service further and provide a service which better represents modern demand rather than routes of demand created by the Victorians.

exactly, this is the main area where the UK fails so badly when compared to european cities. If we could actually get around our cities rather than being stuck in dirty buses sitting in traffic, or just sitting in traffic in a car.

I currently live in Düsseldorf and it really is a clear example of how to do it. Granted they dont have many narrow streets but like London and Amsterdam, you dont need a car to live and work here.

Sequenced traffic lights, mostly segregated trams, tram routes getting buried underground and passenger volume increases.

Why can english councils not get their act together and actually do something like this? What do they spend all their money on?

 

[Bish Boy]

my pet project would be to reopen the stainmore line between Darlington and Carlisle great freight links to teeside and port of tyne from west coast and western scotland also could be as popular with tourists and rail fans as the Settle to Carlisle. a few problems would be several viaducts including Belah to rebuild definately not financialy viable also Glaxo Smith Kline built opon Barnard Castle's old station lol.

 

[The Planner]

I'd just like a good link between WCML and MML. And regarding run into MKC, LM & NR seemed to think it was viable, they built a platform at MKC for it.

No they didnt, the bay was called the Reading bay in the original plans, which says exactly what it was meant for. It probably will realise its potential but not until CP5.

A comprehensive tram and metro system for each major city in the UK

Who is paying for that then ??

Upgrade Rugby flyover to 125mph running (like it shouldve been from the start of the upgrade)

Waste of time and money, its 75mph EPS over the top anyway. 125mph EPS would gain you 30 seconds, not worth the effort.

4 track the remaining part of the trent valley line

Needs doing but there are issues around the canal apparently.

4 track cov - brum

No need if HS2 happens.

Electrify every mainline inc trans pennine

Lengthen all rush hour trains and commuter platforms

Upgrade ECML

Amalgamate northern london terminals (as said earlier)

From the bottomless pit of cash you have from before ??

I'd like to see that line extended all the way to Oxford with facilities for running through freight. This would mean that anything running from west of Didcot would head directly for Bedford rather than via Old Oak or Birmingham. Even better would be to link it all the way through to Cambridge, thus giving an alternative route from Felixstowe instead of the North London Line

Thats one of the main drivers of re-opening Bicester Bletchley, you would get all the container traffic off the Oxford - Leamington - Cov/Bordesley corridors and run it up the WCML. Felixstowe to Nuneaton has a few upgrades on the cards as thats earmarked as the main route from the ports.

 

[HITMAN]

Waste of time and money, its 75mph EPS over the top anyway. 125mph EPS would gain you 30 seconds, not worth the effort.

Agreed, and that would be for two trains an hour, since one stops at reading anyway and it isn'tm going to be reaching 125mph before the flyover, much better to build the hitchin flyover

 

[tripleseis]

exactly, this is the main area where the UK fails so badly when compared to european cities. If we could actually get around our cities rather than being stuck in dirty buses sitting in traffic, or just sitting in traffic in a car.

I currently live in Düsseldorf and it really is a clear example of how to do it. Granted they dont have many narrow streets but like London and Amsterdam, you dont need a car to live and work here.

Sequenced traffic lights, mostly segregated trams, tram routes getting buried underground and passenger volume increases.

Why can english councils not get their act together and actually do something like this? What do they spend all their money on?

The Germans have the right idea when it comes public transport in their cities. Every major city in Germany will at least have a tram/S-Bahn network, with many old tram lines like you said, converted into U-Bahn lines with on street running confined to the suburbs. Cologne is an interesting mix of on-street and underground running trams.

In the UK, only a handful of cities have anything similar and even then they're not very substantial (if you exclude London and Newcastle).

My pet project would be to build light rail metro systems for many major cities in the UK - Cardiff/Newport, Bristol, Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool. All cities that are large enough for a metro network.

 

[Pumbaa]

My pet project would be to build light rail metro systems for many major cities in the UK - Cardiff/Newport, Bristol, Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool. All cities that are large enough for a metro network.

Think you'll find both Manchester and Liverpool have metro networks..!! Don't get me wrong - we're open to receiving better ones

 

[j0hn0]

Who is paying for that then ??

From the bottomless pit of cash you have from before ??

Sorry, I forgot to do a cost to benefit ratio analysis.

honestly though, I missed the bit from the first post which said that every project on here has to be financially achievable :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Think you'll find both Manchester and Liverpool have metro networks..!! Don't get me wrong - we're open to receiving better ones

Don't liverpool and Manchester have large networks of tunnels beneath them?

Most of our cities are just built on top of earlier remains and can reveal some really interesting things if you did deeper.

Again though, how can german people afford to do it and english can't?

 

[generalvegitable]

I would probably do this with my bottomless spit of money:

put (extensive) light rail/tram systems into every town/city that is big enough for them

electrify the vast majority of the network (even rural branch lines but have a lower voltage there)

replace all current locos/stock/units with ultra modern trains based on simple designs

reopen/build new lines which would provide diversionary routes and provide more capacity.

provide through lines at all stations (except for termini) to avoid express trains getting stuck behind stoppers.

build an orbital line around London (dig a tunnel under the Thames somewhere near Southend).

Raise speeds on all lines so that the major main lines have 170mph speed limits.

Build some transrapid lines rather than high speed lines.

in short this is taking a failed system and making it operate to its full potential