'Pick up only' on selected weekdays - Milton Keynes - Virgin Trains (West Coast)

[swt_passenger]

... MK used to be, of course, a useful interchange for Gatwick Airport until Southern curtailed the service at East Croydon with no thought to passengers encumbered with luggage.

DfT altered the service requirement in the franchise spec, to allow it to run on the slow lines only and reduce pathing conflicts in the Balham area.

IIRC

 

[DarloRich]

The operative word being "small". And the fact that Virgin's first class hosts are somehow incapable of checking passengers' tickets is not the fault of Milton Keynes passengers.

Those FC passengers may well have paid around £7600 or £9100 for a first class season ticket between Euston and MKC ( and I know people with such tickets) Should they not earn themselves both a seat and a free brew?

 

[30907]

Nuneaton would be perfectly well served if the LM service ran fast to Crewe (it would only take around 15 minutes longer than a non-stop VT service, while benefiting Tamworth, Lichfield, Rugeley and Stafford), instead of taking the meandering detour via Stoke-on-Trent which the short-sighted DfT imposed because it was terrified that passengers at Crewe might vote with their feet and go for the better value service (which is really odd considering that the vast, vast majority of passengers on the xx:40 - even the 19:40 - travel beyond Crewe to Wilmslow/Stockport/Manchester).

Surely the reason for running via Stone was to meet the (not unreasonable) demands being made there. Otherwise it would be very difficult to justify going north of Stafford operationally The fact that LM do very well out of Crewe-London is a bonus for them (and Crewe pax) - the primary market for the LM service is Trent Valley-London (where historically only Nuneaton had anything like a decent service).
Again with the exception of Nuneaton (because of Leicester) I would be surprised to know that there is a significant market from the TV to Crewe and beyond.

But I'm not sure this has much to do with MKC.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Those FC passengers may well have paid around £7600 or £9100 for a first class season ticket between Euston and MKC ( and I know people with such tickets) Should they not earn themselves both a seat and a free brew?

They can get a seat on LM. TBH I don't agree with First Class freebies, I would rather lower fares and just an at-seat service on proper plates of stuff from the buffet at the normal price.

 

[Envy123]

Considering that I am torn between buying a house near the ECML or the WCML:

The WCML has the advantage that you can live a commutable distance between 2 major cities but it seems to me that VTWC doesn't know what it wants. On one hand, it wants sped-up inter-city links but it also wants to serve commuters as well. Because trying to achieve both has worked out so well. :roll:

Milton Keynes Central (MKC), in terms of services, is a mess. No peak VTWC services, some slow LM services and relatively infrequent LM expresses. And I feel like its situation can be subject to change pretty frequently, and the next thing we know, VTWC could just completely withdraw MKC and call it done.

Its uncertainty honestly makes me question moving there.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Considering that I am torn between buying a house near the ECML or the WCML:

The WCML has the advantage that you can live a commutable distance between 2 major cities but it seems to me that VTWC doesn't know what it wants. On one hand, it wants sped-up inter-city links but it also wants to serve commuters as well. Because trying to achieve both has worked out so well. :roll:

Milton Keynes Central (MKC), in terms of services, is a mess. No peak VTWC services, some slow LM services and relatively infrequent LM expresses. And I feel like its situation can be subject to change pretty frequently, and the next thing we know, VTWC could just completely withdraw MKC and call it done.

Its uncertainty honestly makes me question moving there.

I realise it may be a long way off, but it's worth considering the effect that HS2 Phase 1 will have on the WCML (assuming that you will be working for a significant period after that). It is likely that many more VTWC services will stop at MKC following opening of HS2 P1.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Milton Keynes Central (MKC), in terms of services, is a mess. No peak VTWC services, some slow LM services and relatively infrequent LM expresses. And I feel like its situation can be subject to change pretty frequently, and the next thing we know, VTWC could just completely withdraw MKC and call it done

It couldn't do anything of the sort. The number of calls it presently makes off-peak are, if I recall correctly, the minimum allowed by the franchise agreement. There are a few extra peak ones which they can pull. The ones they just did pull were added a few years ago - it was for a long time only hourly in the early evening, xx43 if I recall. But the LM service has been massively upgraded since then, with two extra trains per hour and more capacity on the 1913 which was previously a bit of a problem train.

Its uncertainty honestly makes me question moving there.

The service is in my view rather good. I'm happy with it, personally. Use LM to go to London (indeed, if you can stand a slower service Bletchley is more civilised). Use VT to go north. I don't understand the incessant moaning from the commuter groups and the Citizen newspaper about it at all. It is a far, far better service than chronically-overcrowded Thameslink, at least. And it's one of the cheapest places to live that is convenient for London commuting and genuinely quite pleasant.

If you want to move to MK for whatever reason, I really wouldn't have any qualms about it.

 

[dviner]

I'll answer my own question. Not without interfering with the PITA xx:04 Tring stopper.

Bad enough that the Tring stoppers get canned at the first whiff of delays, but now they're getting slagged off for existing!!

At least you can walk from Hemel Hempstead to Apsley. You're stuffed if you want to get to Kings Langley.

 

[All Line Rover]

They can get a seat on LM. TBH I don't agree with First Class freebies, I would rather lower fares and just an at-seat service on proper plates of stuff from the buffet at the normal price.

And for an example of how that turns out in practice, look at GWR (FGW).

I'm quite happy with Virgin's first class catering provision. The overall quality depends on the menu (the Pendolino evening meals have been substandard for years and the Pendolino "brunch" offering on the current menu is awful: Virgin should switch straight from the breakfast menu to the tasty all-day menu), but otherwise it is rather good. Portion sizes on the all-day menu can be small - paasengers should be entitled to select up to two items (e.g. a 130 calorie salad and and 290 calorie deli platter) - but not once have I been refused two items whenever I have requested this on trains that are not too busy.
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it's one of the cheapest places to live that is convenient for London commuting and genuinely quite pleasant.

If you want to move to MK for whatever reason, I really wouldn't have any qualms about it.

And in my opinion, the house prices in Milton Keynes are reasonable, not because Milton Keynes is somehow undesirable, but because there is unlimited capacity for expansion of the housing stock. Though it should be recognised that prices have risen substantially since 2009 (after having dropped substantially between 2007 and 2009) - the reason for which appears to be growth in the number of jobs in Milton Keynes rather than in the number of London commuters - and are no longer as good value as they once were. Hopefully the upward pressure on house prices will be limited when large scale developments are granted planning permission over the coming years. And at least MK house prices haven't reach the insane levels managed in Reading.

 

[gary47]

I will be interested to see how full the 19:07 (non-stop to Runcorn) becomes, in comparison.

I caught it once from Stafford last year and it was heaving

 

[DarloRich]

Considering that I am torn between buying a house near the ECML or the WCML:

The WCML has the advantage that you can live a commutable distance between 2 major cities but it seems to me that VTWC doesn't know what it wants. On one hand, it wants sped-up inter-city links but it also wants to serve commuters as well. Because trying to achieve both has worked out so well. :roll:

Milton Keynes Central (MKC), in terms of services, is a mess. No peak VTWC services, some slow LM services and relatively infrequent LM expresses. And I feel like its situation can be subject to change pretty frequently, and the next thing we know, VTWC could just completely withdraw MKC and call it done.

Its uncertainty honestly makes me question moving there.

I think you might want to check again! There are plenty of trains to MK both fast and slow.

Virgin wont withdraw stops from the biggest development on their route. They will only increase as the town continues to grow and suck in people and jobs. Inward commuting has massively increased in the 5 years I have lived here and will go up again as E-W opens.
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And in my opinion, the house prices in Milton Keynes are reasonable, not because Milton Keynes is somehow undesirable, but because there is unlimited capacity for expansion of the housing stock. Though it should be recognised that prices have risen substantially since 2009 (after having dropped substantially between 2007 and 2009) - the reason for which appears to be growth in the number of jobs in Milton Keynes rather than in the number of London commuters - and are no longer as good value as they once were. Hopefully the upward pressure on house prices will be limited when large scale developments are granted planning permission over the coming years. And at least MK house prices haven't reach the insane levels managed in Reading.

you want to try moving from the north east to MK and tell me the prices are reasonable My house cost more than twice as much as it did in Darlington and 4 times as it would in Middlesbrough! ( that is a 2 bed terrace in need of a complete refurbishment. A nice one was unaffordable!)

There also isn't unlimited expansion potential. MK as a zone is almost complete and is now touching on the green belt. That is why we see more development along the Marston Vale line and in areas like Wolverton and Newport Pagnell. Most of the large developments are almost complete within the town.

And no the prices wont fall anytime soon. The good train services to London will see to that. Affordability wise the wave is beyond MK and may be passing Rugby.

 

[xtradj]

This decision will have been thought about for ages and will benefit more than it won't.

Liverpool only has one service an hour from Euston. You can get London midland trains to Milton Keynes from Euston which are pretty fast so don't see what the problem is that one train is pick up only?
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I caught it once from Stafford last year and it was heaving

That's the first cheap advance train to Liverpool of the evening so a lot use it for obvious reasons

 

[All Line Rover]

There also isn't unlimited expansion potential. MK as a zone is almost complete and is now touching on the green belt. That is why we see more development along the Marston Vale line and in areas like Wolverton and Newport Pagnell. Most of the large developments are almost complete within the town.

Because Green Belt is all to the south of the Marston Vale line, it has little effect on expansion plans (the Green Belt system is, in any case, a farce: Oxford being a case in point). In the very long term it wouldn't be surprising if Milton Keynes and Bedford merged into each other, though anything to the east of the M1 clearly isn't part of MK-proper.

And no the prices wont fall anytime soon. The good train services to London will see to that. Affordability wise the wave is beyond MK and may be passing Rugby.

House prices in Rugby are below average for the Midlands and similar to the average for much of Cheshire and Greater Manchester. I'm sure there are many people commuting between Rugby and London, but I don't buy the idea that London workers do, or ever will, live in Rugby in such numbers as to make a significant influence on house prices in the town.

 

[miami]

Isn't the problem that the 1840 and 1820 Manchester trains are carting fresh air, due to the ridiculous difference in price between a £320 peak return and a £80 off peak?

Bring the peak restrictions back to 1820 and the 19.xx trains won't have long distance passengers paying £160 each way sitting on the floor while Milton Keynes passengers get home 10 minutes earlier.

 

[DarloRich]

Because Green Belt is all to the south of the Marston Vale line, it has little effect on expansion plans (the Green Belt system is, in any case, a farce: Oxford being a case in point). In the very long term it wouldn't be surprising if Milton Keynes and Bedford merged into each other, though anything to the east of the M1 clearly isn't part of MK-proper.

There are few firm plans on further development at this stage. The council recently consulted on options. It is mainly Bedfordshire council anyway down the Vale.

House prices in Rugby are below average for the Midlands and similar to the average for much of Cheshire and Greater Manchester. I'm sure there are many people commuting between Rugby and London, but I don't buy the idea that London workers do, or ever will, live in Rugby in such numbers as to make a significant influence on house prices in the town.

There are already a significant number of Euston commuters and with the increase in fast trains that will go up. That group are predominately young professionals who have a budget (and no parental funding - sigh) that will only stretch as far as Rugby. However, it isn't all London commuters there is a sizable (and growing) market into Milton Keynes from both Rugby and as far north as Tamworth.

House prices and faster trains are driving that outward movement, especially accompanies relocate to MK form elsewhere.

I looked at Rugby but at the time the cost of travel to work and the time penalty made it a second option but one that prices in MK almost forced me to take up. I was lucky and found a house that needs a complete refurb and did a very aggressive deal.

The house next door has just gone on the market for almost 50% more than I paid for mine! It is identical other than it has just had a really good refurb and is slightly over the market rate. I couldn't have afforded that house or any of the others in my street. All are 2 bed terraces.

That is why Rugby will increase in price soon. Buy now!

 

[QueensCurve]

Rather than reverse the idiotic decision to add Nuneaton and Stafford as calling points (in place of these stations as calling points on the 19:07 to Liverpool), in the last few days Virgin has made Milton Keynes 'pick up only' on the 19:10 (from May) on Thursdays and Fridays only. And that's not all, because Virgin has done the same with the 19:20 to Manchester (which is having Macclesfield added as a calling point, replacing Macclesfield as a calling point on the 19:00, with the journey time to Manchester on the 19:00 reduced by a mere five minutes, from 2h 13m to 2h 08m), resulting in a one hour gap in Virgin Trains services to Milton Keynes on Thursday and Friday evenings (between 18:43 and 19:43)!

In the days before CLD, was on a train that stopped somewhere (Reading I think) to set down only. The Guard challenged said person along the lines of ""this train doesn't stop here" and got the reply "In that case I didn't get on".

 

[Bletchleyite]

In the days before CLD, was on a train that stopped somewhere (Reading I think) to set down only. The Guard challenged said person along the lines of ""this train doesn't stop here" and got the reply "In that case I didn't get on".

There's something wonderfully British about that kind of casual disobedience, is there not?

 

[Robertj21a]

Because Green Belt is all to the south of the Marston Vale line, it has little effect on expansion plans (the Green Belt system is, in any case, a farce: Oxford being a case in point). In the very long term it wouldn't be surprising if Milton Keynes and Bedford merged into each other, though anything to the east of the M1 clearly isn't part of MK-proper.



House prices in Rugby are below average for the Midlands and similar to the average for much of Cheshire and Greater Manchester. I'm sure there are many people commuting between Rugby and London, but I don't buy the idea that London workers do, or ever will, live in Rugby in such numbers as to make a significant influence on house prices in the town.

On the contrary, I would expect Rugby, and the immediate surrounding area, to be very attractive to those commuting to London - it seems to have a lot of benefits.

 

[Senex]

On the contrary, I would expect Rugby, and the immediate surrounding area, to be very attractive to those commuting to London - it seems to have a lot of benefits.

Rugby is closer to London than are Grantham and Newark on the ECML, and both of those have significant numbers of commuters.

 

[All Line Rover]

There are already a significant number of Euston commuters and with the increase in fast trains that will go up.

Which new services are you referring to? I'm not aware of any significant forthcoming improvements.

Regardless of the current service provision, I am willing to bet that all Rugby trains will call at Milton Keynes once HS2 commences operation, following which Rugby will not be a particularly attractive commuter proposition. Milton Keynes will remain well positioned, however, if East-West Rail is built.

 

[gary47]

Had you bothered to read the post, you would realise that Milton Keynes passengers won't benefit from any of the planned changes.

Can't they drop runcorn out of some of Liverpool services and replace with Milton Keynes they never seem to get missed

 

[67018]

On the contrary, I would expect Rugby, and the immediate surrounding area, to be very attractive to those commuting to London - it seems to have a lot of benefits.

Rugby has a lot going for it on paper. I looked at moving there a few years ago before actually visiting the place, then quickly looked elsewhere on realising that it was a dump!

Which is quite sad as it wouldn't take much to make it a lot better. Maybe for that reason moving there might be a good long term investment. Not everyone likes the 'new town' feel of MK.

As has already been said, plenty of people already commute from other places as far out. What are season ticket prices like though, i seem to remember they were quite steep.

 

[Envy123]

That is why Rugby will increase in price soon. Buy now!

That seems rather depressing. Rugby seems to tick a lot of boxes for me (the villagey parts, not the town centre), but moving there will take me 1-2 years.

 

[DarloRich]

Rugby has a lot going for it on paper. I looked at moving there a few years ago before actually visiting the place, then quickly looked elsewhere on realising that it was a dump!

Which is quite sad as it wouldn't take much to make it a lot better. Maybe for that reason moving there might be a good long term investment. Not everyone likes the 'new town' feel of MK.

As has already been said, plenty of people already commute from other places as far out. What are season ticket prices like though, i seem to remember they were quite steep.

The new town part of mk isn't where I live - it is only really the centre that is like that - I live in a village like any other that has become attached to bletchley then to mk - there are so many misconceptions about the area - this being one

 

[67018]

The new town part of mk isn't where I live - it is only really the centre that is like that - I live in a village like any other that has become attached to bletchley then to mk - there are so many misconceptions about the area - this being one

I'm well aware of the villages near MK - although would question what proportion of the housing stock they make up compared to the 'new' bit. Also house prices are likely to be higher. Which is where Rugby comes in, being cheaper for housing not least because it's further from London.