Plane Bashing

[Ascot]

Has anyone taken Virgin Atlantic or British Airways? They seem to have the cheapest fares from New York to London. How was the experience?

Virgin has more of a "nu-style" attitude and service. They have a good meal service which has recently been refreshed in an attempt to bring back the glory days of flying. BA have a more traditional service on the route but have so many flights going out it's easy to find the best time. BA are the only airline to boast a direct flight to London City from JFK which is very useful if you can find any vacant seats.

Out of the 2 I'd go for VS if I wasn't time restricted for economy. Fare wise have you not looked at going via Frankfurt, Amsterdam etc.. as they are showing as a good £100 less on some dates?


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[starrymarkb]

Is currently very tempted by the Bristol to Amsterdam fare on Delta's UK site. They are about £10 cheaper then KLM for travelling on the KLM Flight!

Plus I've heard good things about the Fokkers.

Edit: Booked it!
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Finally got to get on the laptop, and signed up for Flightdiary as that looked more impressive than TripIt personally. Signature image coming up in a moment.

Gave up trying to find my flight home on FlightRadar24 (FR666 1500 Dublin to Birmingham on 2nd April) for an exact route so Flightdiary's as the crow flies mileage will do.

http://www.flightradar24.com/2012-04-02/15:04/RYR666

There you go! (again just watched for Ryanair flights around 1500)

For more on the normal routes see - http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/srd/SRDDOC.pdf - ideally you'll need an enroute chart for all the fix locations

TripIt is more for managing future trips - you email the Flight/Hotel/Train/Coach confirmations and it generates an itinerary. I use it in conjunction with the mobile app and Google Calendar

 

[Techniquest]

Aha, cheers. Missed it somehow.

Amsterdam, one of the seemingly endless list of destinations I was looking at for another plane bash. I was looking at scooping in Paris CDG for all-time, flying from MAN, but realised there was no such thing as a Travelodge in Paris! So I looked at flights to Madrid, passed on that in the end when I wasn't sure if I'd be able to get to/from the airport and Travelodge OK, let alone cranking in a country whose native language I know jack squat of! So where did I end up choosing on a rather implusive choice last night?

Dublin. I was adamant I wasn't going with Ryanair again, but that's who I chose and remembered Aer Lingus later :roll: Still flying out of MAN, which was chosen as I could get there relatively easily after work (discovered I've a 5 hour fester in Piccadilly to get to the airport though!) on an overnight bash. £26 return on Advances too so not bad at all.

More B738 bashing coming up then on 22nd and 23rd April! Can only go for a couple of days as I've only Sunday and Monday off

 

[starrymarkb]

I use Booking.com and work from there. Paris is notoriously expensive though!

Madrid hotels seemed reasonably priced. Have a look at Wikitravel for how to get around the city, I can also recommend Lonely Planet's Phrase Books (which include such useful things as how to pull alongside the usual Hovercraft's full of eels

 

[Techniquest]

Shall have a look through that ready for a possible bit of plane bashing in May. Since I should still have the 31st of May off, and UKR have cancelled that tour, I may go for a day trip to somewhere

 

[WestCoast]

You don't need Travelodge in mainland Europe - you won't find one outside UK, Ireland, Spain and the UAE either! Look at Etap and easyHotel, which both have locations throughout Europe (including the UK).

If anyone is thinking of plane bashing this summer, have at look at Lufthansa's recently launched flights from Birmingham and Manchester to the brand new Berlin Brandenburg airport! I have seen some great fares from £39 one way all inclusive.
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Is currently very tempted by the Bristol to Amsterdam fare on Delta's UK site. They are about £10 cheaper then KLM for travelling on the KLM Flight!

Plus I've heard good things about the Fokkers.

The Fokker 70s/100s are very good for their age, also they won't be around for too much longer, so it's best to get on one while you still can!

Plus, Amsterdam is a brilliant airport for everything!

 

[starrymarkb]

If anyone is thinking of plane bashing this summer, have at look at Lufthansa's recently launched flights from Birmingham and Manchester to the brand new Berlin Brandenburg airport! I have seen some great fares from £39 one way all inclusive.

We are going through Schonefeld in the final week (the 29th, coming back from the WGT festival) - if you want to do a last and first I'd book to Berlin on the 2nd June (last day at SXF/Tegal) and back on the 3rd (First Day of BER)

 

[Ascot]

I'd say Accor group (ETAP, Ibis etc...) dominates Continental Europe for super cheap hotels and would be your best bet to invest in. Plus you get loyalty points to cash in for future stays at all but the very cheap brands.

 

[WestCoast]

Had a great trip to the Isle of Man on Wednesday, taking full advantage of the lower fares as a result of unprecedented competition between Flybe and newcomers easyJet on the age old Liverpool to Isle of Man route. Many still can't believe easyJet fly this route, so I had to fly it. Flew in on a Flybe Dash 8 Q400 (G-FLBA) and out on a easyJet Airbus A319 (G-EZDO). I couldn't believe I was flying out of Ronaldsway on a 150 seater plane, it's a jumbo jet by IoM standards (largest plane by far that regularly visits)... Quite an experience! It's a very short flight though, about 25 minutes from take-off to touchdown on the Dash 8, and 20 minutes on the A319. EasyJet couldn't even do a trolley service! It was about 40% full on flybe's first flight of the day, and roughly 85% on easyJet's once daily service (well done!).

 

[150222]

Does anyone else's ears go funny while descending on a plane? Mine did on the last few flights I went on. (An AirFrance A320).

 

[Royston Vasey]

Has anyone taken Virgin Atlantic or British Airways? They seem to have the cheapest fares from New York to London. How was the experience?

I use both regularly from Newark to London, usually a 767/777 on BA or 747/A340 on VS. Much prefer BA, the service is more attentive and the attitude of the staff far better. Virgin also limit hand luggage weight which is very reminiscent of a budget airline. Though Virgin Upper Class probably beats BA Club World. I have BA Silver to a) enjoy and b) preserve so I use BA most times now.

Delta and KLM/Air France I think tends to be a tiny bit cheaper via AMS or CDG, but direct wins for me.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Does anyone else's ears go funny while descending on a plane? Mine did on the last few flights I went on. (An AirFrance A320).

That's very common; it's the air pressure in the cabin increasing as you descend ( most cabins are maintained at a pressure equal to about 7000ft rather than sea level when cruising ).

You can avoid it by yawning or chewing - the muscular motion from either action will open the eustachian tubes thus allowing the pressure inside your ears to equalise with the external pressure.

 

[WestCoast]

Delta and KLM/Air France I think tends to be a tiny bit cheaper via AMS or CDG, but direct wins for me.

Aer Lingus can also work out cheaper via Dublin - much underrated! It's usually quicker than going via CDG/AMS, and Dublin T2 is a lovely terminal with US immigration and customs pre-clearance, which saves some time and hassle (a lot of time if you arrive at certain times) on arrival in the US.

 

[150222]

That's very common; it's the air pressure in the cabin increasing as you descend ( most cabins are maintained at a pressure equal to about 7000ft rather than sea level when cruising ).

You can avoid it by yawning or chewing - the muscular motion from either action will open the eustachian tubes thus allowing the pressure inside your ears to equalise with the external pressure.

Ah, thank you. My ears didn't pop for days although I'd always been told to suck on a boiled sweet. Off-topic a little but it occasionally happens in the tunnels on the southern ECML (in a MK4 at full whack), although nowhere near to the same extent.

 

[WestCoast]

Ah, thank you. My ears didn't pop for days although I'd always been told to suck on a boiled sweet. Off-topic a little but it occasionally happens in the tunnels on the southern ECML (in a MK4 at full whack), although nowhere near to the same extent.

I don't notice it much anymore, but I used to and I found that swallowing or sucking on a mint or whatever helped.

I find it's much worse if you have a cold or mild flu at the time. Apparently awful if you have an ear infection.

 

[150222]

Well I did have a cold last time. I wonder how pilots cope with it?

 

[WestCoast]

Well I did have a cold last time. I wonder how pilots cope with it?

A cold does seem to make it a lot worse. I am no doctor, but that's probably because the infection causing the common cold affects the ears, nose and throat.

I guess pilots and cabin crew are used to it, it does affect some more than others though.

From experience, if you suffer from the ear pain, it's made worse if you're sat on a noisy turboprop aircraft though (especially next to the prop!).

 

[starrymarkb]

I had pain in my ears when flying on the Dash 8 - but outbound only. I suspect it might have been because I hadn't flown for a while before both those flights (and I was fine on the return)

I'd also get ear popping on the Central line between Mile End and Stratford and occasionally when entering the tunnel at Leyton. Also if I climb/descend the hills too quickly on the A38/A380 west of Exeter

 

[Ascot]

One time coming back from New York I felt so hungover I couldn't feel my ears popping at all until 2 days later I had the most awful pain. I'm not entirely sure how I found my way around.


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[Techniquest]

Anyone got recommendations for flights to/from Australia? I'm not going until next year, as I need the time to save up, but I had lots of different options. Air China came up as a choice, although I assume that was because it was via a change in China for another flight. Which seems a good idea to me, as I can then get another airport scratched off, underline another craft and have a well-needed break in the middle of the journey.

However, seat61.com suggests these two:

"Virgin Atlantic Airlines, www.virginatlantic.com, who fly direct from the UK to Australia, a good choice for both price & service.

Singapore Airlines, www.singaporeair.com, consistently voted one of the world's best (and I wouldn't disagree, as airlines go...)."

The latter is tempting as I keep seeing ads for that one on Discovery. However I've been tempted by going with Virgin Atlantic as well, but don't know whether to save that pleasure for my proposed 2014 holiday to the USA. 2015 is lined up to be a trip to Japan too.

I've been researching the rail aspect of the trip, the reason for going to Australia apart from the flying part. No problems there, and the visa looks like it should be easy enough to get as you can apparently get an eVisitor visa online easily enough. So I suppose my main questions are these:

Which would you do, a direct flight or one that involves a change? I suspect direct may be more expensive, but I've not looked yet. Also:

If I booked a flight from Heathrow (required airport, and I've been wanting to go there for a flight and not just the trains for years) to Melbourne which involved a change at Kuala Lumpa (I think that was the one that came up in my search recently), but the first flight was late enough to miss the second one, what would happen then? Never had to do such a thing with flying so totally unsure whether they'd have an obligation to carry you onwards on the next flight or make you pay for the next one.

 

[trentside]

Some friends of mine are about to emigrate to Australia. They've done some research and found some very good fares (around £470 one way, and only a little more return) with Royal Brunei Airlines. I've not yet had an opportunity to investigate this myself, but it may be one worth checking.

 

[Techniquest]

Well worth looking into then, especially as Singapore Airlines wanted well over a grand for a return from Heathrow to Sydney in April next year! Virgin wanted similar monies I believe, so I got curious and had a look at what they'd charge me for the dates I had in mind for June this year if I could have afforded it. £959.33 that was, quite a bit of difference.

That said, I'm tempted to try Singapore Airlines as the options I got were using A380s. Seriously worth a go on I reckon, even if I only use them one way. Some options with them were A380 to Singapore and A380 onwards, others were A380/A330 combinations. All of them had varying connection times at Singapore, ranging from around 1h50m to the best part of a day!

 

[WestCoast]

If I am totally honest, Virgin Atlantic is quite hyped up, they used to be really innovative, but they're not that special nowadays (all the reviews confirm this). Certainly no better than BA in my opinion.

May I point out that no airline flies direct to Australia? You always go via somewhere, and normally they are treated as two separate flights. You can choose to have a day's stopover in the likes of Dubai, Bangkok or Singapore, but you'll pay extra.

I have flown on Singapore Airlines, and they are world class. However, they're quite expensive usually.

You might want to check out the Gulf carriers like Emirates (via Dubai) and Etihad (via Abu Dhabi). In fact, you must look at their prices, as they carry a lot of UK - Australia traffic nowadays.

Royal Thai via Bangkok, Korean Air via Seoul and Malaysia Airlines via Kuala Lumpur will be introducing A380s on the London - Asia parts of the journey. Emirates, Singapore Airlines and Qantas already operate the bulk of UK - Australia connections on A380s.

Personally, I am looking at flying Manchester - Frankfurt - Singapore - Sydney on the Lufthansa A380 (Frankfurt - Singapore) and Singapore Airlines A380 (Singapore - Sydney) - you can buy through tickets as they are both in the Star Alliance.

Use all the price comparison websites; Skyscanner, Kayak, Orbitz, Trailfinders. Then check all the airlines direct.
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Some friends of mine are about to emigrate to Australia. They've done some research and found some very good fares (around £470 one way, and only a little more return) with Royal Brunei Airlines. I've not yet had an opportunity to investigate this myself, but it may be one worth checking.

Royal Brunei are an interesting choice. There have been a few reports on them on Airliners.net, apparently they used to operate with a 767 (pretty small compared to the competition), which went London - Dubai - Brunei - Australia. No alcohol onboard for religious reasons.

 

[Techniquest]

Thanks for the very useful gen, The Wise Miser looks to be quite a useful one too as that was where I'd first looked via a Google search the other day. There was one I was on earlier that I didn't like for one reason. Think it was fly.co.uk, but the reason I disliked it was because it felt the right thing to do was to make the pre-tax price bigger and more eye-catching, so imagine my surprise when I saw flights with BA for £352 for June! Then I saw in much smaller text "+£532 taxes and charges", which considered everywhere else tends to focus on the post-taxes and charges prices, makes no sense.

T'was the same site that suggested that, unlike other airlines, Quantas was a direct flight to and from Heathrow. No other airline does that from my searches, besides I like the idea of changing planes. So long as the connections make, that's the main thing.

Looked up Royal Brunei Airlines, they appeared to use 777-400s on their flights, with changes at the long-named Brunei International (the rest of the name when I looked at the details was longgggggggggg!). £723 for my chosen dates in June, which I was thought was pretty impressive. If only I had that sort of money in my account right now...

Cheers for the gen too on Virgin, I'll still use them one day to see what they're like, although I might do it outward with Virgin and return with BA, so I can make a comparison and fly with that other airline I've been keen on sampling for ages, BA. Kept seeing their ads in the Metro last year and early this year, got me really tempted to see what flying with a decent airline is actually like. Oh, and Virgin can't be worse than Ryanair, surely?

Anyway, this Australian trip isn't for many, many months yet. Hopefully by December I'll have a decent amount set aside for it!

 

[starrymarkb]

T'was the same site that suggested that, unlike other airlines, Quantas was a direct flight to and from Heathrow. No other airline does that from my searches, besides I like the idea of changing planes. So long as the connections make, that's the main thing.

It would still be with a stop (even if you don't change planes) - There isn't much money in Ultra Long Hauls so they tend to be Business Class only, the Qantas stops in Singapore or Hong Kong IIRC...

 

[Techniquest]

Fair enough, it would be rather ambitious to fly all the way from Australia to Heathrow without a refuel and whatnot. Got to be many thousands of miles after all!

Definitely think I'll get those flight socks before the trip though!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

If I booked a flight from Heathrow (required airport, and I've been wanting to go there for a flight and not just the trains for years) to Melbourne which involved a change at Kuala Lumpa (I think that was the one that came up in my search recently), but the first flight was late enough to miss the second one, what would happen then? Never had to do such a thing with flying so totally unsure whether they'd have an obligation to carry you onwards on the next flight or make you pay for the next one.

If you are booked through on one booking, then you'll be covered and they'll get you there.

If you book it as two separate journeys, you would be watching your paddle drift off into the distance...

 

[Techniquest]

I had a feeling that would be the case, cheers for the confirmation.

Just been on BA.com, a little over £600 for BA on the outward and American Airlines on the return for an American bash to New York looks good. At least I know how much to aim to save up for 2014. About the same sort of money for the bash to Tokyo, another target set for 2015

 

[WestCoast]

Just been on BA.com, a little over £600 for BA on the outward and American Airlines on the return for an American bash to New York looks good.

That can be done cheaper. When I was looking last year I found an excellent one-stop fare outbound on Swiss via Zurich (who are a lovely airline as well, far better than American Airlines!) and inbound on Brussels Airlines for about £375 return. In the end, I went for Aer Lingus via Dublin which was about £420 return.

Mind you, I am bit of cheapskate when it comes to airfares and I really don't mind doing one or even two stops to save a bit of cash (more fun usually!). It doesn't help that American Airlines and United send a 757 narrowbody* to Manchester with a very boring interior!

*I like them a lot, but it's like putting a 158 on the Midland Main Line when a HST/222 is far better. Perfectly capable of it, but not the best fit.
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No other airline does that from my searches, besides I like the idea of changing planes. So long as the connections make, that's the main thing.

The airlines operating UK-Australia routes know passengers want to use these services all the way though, they will make the timings work wherever possible. If you have a through ticket, which most people do, you're covered every step of the way.

Airlines like Emirates and Singapore Airlines rely heavily on connecting passengers to keep the money flowing. It's a very different business to the likes of Ryanair and easyJet. In fact, in Europe, airport like Amsterdam are massive changing hubs where up to 60% of passengers are connecting between flights. It's big business. Think of these places like the "Crewe" and the "Birmingham New Street" of the aviation world.
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Cheers for the gen too on Virgin, I'll still use them one day to see what they're like, although I might do it outward with Virgin and return with BA, so I can make a comparison and fly with that other airline I've been keen on sampling for ages, BA. Kept seeing their ads in the Metro last year and early this year, got me really tempted to see what flying with a decent airline is actually like. Oh, and Virgin can't be worse than Ryanair, surely?

The Ryanair experience is, well, the Pacer of the aviation world. I appreciate the £20 - £30 quid singles to mainland Europe to visit relatives, but I prefer to go with someone else if I can. I think most people rate easyJet and Flybe above that, and the likes of BA above that. Virgin are a different market entirely, they operate only long haul. It's all relative to what you pay in relation to the competition.

Swiss is my favourite airline in Europe, from what I've seen they are top quality in everything they do and despite that they often seem cheaper than BA. They are the only airline that gives chocolates to the staff at the airport!

 

[starrymarkb]

Fair enough, it would be rather ambitious to fly all the way from Australia to Heathrow without a refuel and whatnot. Got to be many thousands of miles after all!

Definitely think I'll get those flight socks before the trip though!

Some of the A340s (200 and 500 series) and B777 (200ER series) can do it non stop, but their low capacity relative to the fuel they burn means its much cheaper for the airline to operate a larger craft (B773/B747/A346/A380) with a stop. This is also why the longest non-stop in the world (Singapore Airlines' Newark-Singapore) is a business class only A340-500 - The high business fares are the only way they can cover the fuel burnt on such a run.
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That can be done cheaper. When I was looking last year I found an excellent one-stop fare outbound on Swiss via Zurich (who are a lovely airline as well, far better than American Airlines!) and inbound on Brussels Airlines for about £375 return. In the end, I went for Aer Lingus via Dublin which was about £420 return.

The Ryanair experience is, well, the Pacer of the aviation world. I appreciate the £20 - £30 quid singles to mainland Europe to visit relatives, but I prefer to go with someone else if I can. I think most people rate easyJet and Flybe above that, and the likes of BA above that. Virgin are a different market entirely, they operate only long haul. It's all relative to what you pay in relation to the competition.

I found a LHR-PHL-BOS-PHX-LAX-PHL-LHR for £600 return (US Airways) with Kayak.

I'd probably put it as Ryanair < Flybe < Easyjet where the low costs are concerned. Flybe seem to be heading more in Ryanair's direction