Plans for the existing Euston station post HS2?

[mr_jrt]

Interestingly, the ground level appears to be somewhat higher on the HS2 side.

 

[StevieH500]

Looking forward to them rebuilding the arch they demolished in the 60s.

 

[si404]

Looking forward to them rebuilding the arch they demolished in the 60s.

Looking forward to them rebuilding the Great Hall they demolished in the 60s.

Just as pointless, but at least it's pretty.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Interestingly, the ground level appears to be somewhat higher on the HS2 side.

Since the station is so big I'd expect the ground level changes quite a bit around the perimeter. The 'level' deck proposals presumably wouldn't be quite level, but any ramps would be so shallow as to be unnoticeable. The problem comes when you have obvious level differences requiring steps, escalators and lifts. This would be compounded if such measures were required on either side of the classic station to match the lower level of both the street and the HS2 concourse deck.

 

[Bald Rick]

The best idea was the one that sunk the platforms and opened up the area above them for east-west access. All along Eversholt Street it's a dead wall due to the station, and that's such a waste of prime land. Sink the platforms lower, and rebuild the station accordingly.

Seems an awful lot of effort to save the cost of a ramp.

 

[Dave_Cardboard]

HS2 lines at Euston are the thick end of 10m below current ground level. There's no way you could lower the existing Euston platforms to anything like that degree and produce gradients that would get the WCML up and over the Line X tunnel/bridge and the canal - parts of the Euston approach are already pretty steep (by railway standards.) Unless we're going to reinstate the cable winch system for old!

Modern DDA requirements mean steps are a last resort and anywhere there are steps, we now need to provide lifts for wheelchair users (and those toting pushchairs and so on,) which obviously increases both capex and opex costs and is less convenient for said users, so ramps - the shallower the better - are very much the order of the day if at all possible.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/408801/response/1020947/attach/3/FOI201700899.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

 

[Kettledrum]

Thought it would be highly unlikely to happen, due to the costs and practically of transportation and construction
As much as it would be nice to see at Euston Station again, it wouldn't offer value for money

What the ###****!!! has value for money got to do with it? I doubt if the original arch covered its costs. It was an act of vandalism to remove it and if it is at all possible to reverse that vandalism money shouldn't come into it.

Making a value for money assessment in respect of and culture and heritage is very difficult, and you probably shouldn't try and do. There are countless examples across the world of historical cultural buildings or icons that have been rebuilt after being destroyed. Derby Assembly Rooms (Rebuilt at Crich Tramway Museum), York Minster (rebuilt after fire), Sandbach Saxon Crosses (Stones were brought back from far and wide) - so why not the Euston Arch?

 

[mr_jrt]

Seems an awful lot of effort to save the cost of a ramp.

It's not about avoiding a ramp at all. It's about opening up the space by removing barriers. Bringing Eversholt Street back to life is worthwhile as well.

I think these old are the design concepts were the ones I was thinking of: https://www.udg.org.uk/directory/projects/euston-station-area-regeneration , specifically:

...and here's another, for the arch fans:

 

[Energy]

..and here's another, for the arch fans:

Get rid of the arch and the wall along it, it just stops passenger flow, I would much rather not have it and have it open or at least be able to walk through the wall along it instead of being forced to go throw the arch which will just be a choke point, especially at peak times.

 

[mr_jrt]

Each to their own. No different to the current main hall having doors, IMHO. That said, I'm not entirely sure what value the fencing adds, but there you go. It appears to be the same as the above plan, just with the arch, so you can see that the whole point of haveing opned up east-west access means there won't be any choke points.

 

[Energy]

Each to their own. No different to the current main hall having doors, IMHO. That said, I'm not entirely sure what value the fencing adds, but there you go. It appears to be the same as the above plan, just with the arch, so you can see that the whole point of haveing opned up east-west access means there won't be any choke points.

Removing the fencing would be good, you would still have the arch but people can pass through, I would still prefer having the wall and arch gone.

 

[Bald Rick]

It's not about avoiding a ramp at all. It's about opening up the space by removing barriers. Bringing Eversholt Street back to life is worthwhile as well.

I think these old are the design concepts were the ones I was thinking of: https://www.udg.org.uk/directory/projects/euston-station-area-regeneration , specifically:

...and here's another, for the arch fans:

You can remove the barriers by building g a ramp. A very big ramp, granted, but that’s much cheaper than closing Euston to drop it.

 

[Dave_Cardboard]

Removing the fencing would be good, you would still have the arch but people can pass through, I would still prefer having the wall and arch gone.

Of course it's an architects render and should be treated with an entire sack of salt but, sadly, in current times some kind of physical protection is going to be required to keep the car bombers at bay.

Perhaps it's my age, but I've never understood the fixation with the Euston Arch - if it were an extant structure then perhaps it ought to be integrated into a new design, but it's long gone and there doesn't seem to be any point in resurrecting it. Most people travelling through Euston couldn't care less - they are making a train journey, not a visit to a heritage museum.

Maybe arch fans could club together some funds, buy a plot of land and rebuild it as a tourist attraction complete with picnic tables so that visitors could while away the hours marvelling at it. But I suspect, it wouldn't get much patronage. Let the flaming begin....

 

[yorksrob]

At the moment, my main priority is that The Euston Tap survives.

 

[LOL The Irony]

At the moment, my main priority is that The Euston Tap survives.

Isn't it listed?

 

[yorksrob]

Isn't it listed?

One would hope so. Not sure the bar has the same protection though !

 

[NotATrainspott]

Those renders pre-date the HS2 project, but they're not far off what can be achieved.

Looking at the cross-section, it looks like the biggest barrier to just using a ramp to solve the problem is the way that the tracks butt up against Eversholt Street and the central HS2 station spine. That means it won't be trivial just to keep the classic station at its current level and then use the space above the HS2 platforms to ramp up.

We'll just have to see what they come up with. The existing classic station layout isn't particularly efficient. If they want to rebuild it into a new, cleaner layout with wider platform islands at regular spacing, then it's a question of whether they can also dig down by a few metres at the same time. Even if the WCML platforms are marginally higher up than the HS2 ones, it would be an improvement on what we have today and what you would get by developing on top of the current WCML platforms.

 

[Energy]

sadly, in current times some kind of physical protection is going to be required to keep the car bombers at bay.

Use bollards.

 

[Mikey C]

At the moment, my main priority is that The Euston Tap survives.

Social distancing must a massive problem for the Euston Tap as it's so small inside

 

[Dave_Cardboard]

Use bollards.

That would be my guess - much like what what was done at London Bridge when it was rebuilt.

 

[WideRanger]

so why not the Euston Arch?

I think the argument that some would put forward is that a historic building or monument would be worth saving to the extent that it is 1) really old, 2) really beautiful, 3) really important, 4) continues to serve a demonstrable purpose. Clearly, most these are all pretty subjective.

I have only seen it in pictures (as I suspect most people who express an opinion about it). I see that there are a lot of strong feelings about its importance, held by people far more culturally aware than me. Personally, I can't help imagining the arch looking very handsome in a "Disney's World of Ancient Greece" if such existed.

 

[Bald Rick]

[

Personally, I can't help imagining the arch looking very handsome in a "Disney's World of Ancient Greece" if such existed.

Rome, shurely

 

[edwin_m]

Rome, shurely

It wuz the Greeks wot started it.

Doric order - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Doric order was one of the three orders of ancient Greek and later Roman architecture

 

[Bald Rick]

It wuz the Greeks wot started it.

Doric order - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Everyday is a school day (with a lesson in ancient architecture)