"Please avoid using any third party applications"

[pokemonsuper9]

Out of curiosity, what's Blackpool North like these days?

Allowed on with plenty of time
Platforms known very far in advance.

 

[Kite159]

.

Out of curiosity, what's Blackpool North like these days?



MARK

Last time I was at Blackpool North, the platform is shown but the door between the concourse & platform is kept locked until a few minutes before departure, causing a chaotic rush when it does get opened by the member of staff.

 

[gabrielhj07]

One place that seems to have a thing about keeping platforms a secret is Vauxhall. Anybody know why this might be?

 

[Freightmaster]

One place that seems to have a thing about keeping platforms a secret is Vauxhall.

Yarmouth or South London?



MARK

 

[gabrielhj07]

Yarmouth or South London?



MARK

That would be the South London one

 

[gordonthemoron]

In the 80s, BR published timetables at stations which showed the platform which would normally be used, up to 6 months in advance

 

[takno]

Fwiw one of the reasons I don't put more information than just the headcode in on traksy is that it self-selects the info to people who are more likely to know what they're doing. I also personally prefer to only hit the platform when it's actually been announced. I make an exception if it's left so late, as at Paddington, that there's no chance of distributing the passengers down the train, and in fact a real possibility of the slightly less mobile not making it through at all.

It's just one of those "failed at the first hurdle" ways the railway sometimes like to show that they regard their customers as an inconvenience.

 

[OscarH]

Fwiw one of the reasons I don't put more information than just the headcode in on traksy is that it self-selects the info to people who are more likely to know what they're doing. I also personally prefer to only hit the platform when it's actually been announced. I make an exception if it's left so late, as at Paddington, that there's no chance of distributing the passengers down the train, and in fact a real possibility of the slightly less mobile not making it through at all.

It's just one of those "failed at the first hurdle" ways the railway sometimes like to show that they regard their customers as an inconvenience.

I think this summarises the problem well, I don't think many people disagree that suppressing platforms for a period of time at certain locations is necessary, as is the mainstream sources respecting that flag. The railway once again goes and takes a necessary tool and utterly abuses it for their own convenience, berating passengers that found the information by putting in some work (though berating passengers seems to be a favourite pastime of Paddington's gateline in general).

If Trainline are showing suppressed platforms they probably should stop that, but there's a very good chance they're ignoring the flag because the TOC cannot be bothered to properly maintain the data in Darwin and/or release platforms sensibly.

 

[dm1]

What if it changes short-notice? You'd have complaints about people missing trains as they were on the wrong platform!

The solution to that is simple - you play an (automatic) announcement on the original platform periodicially before the train departs and ensure all the information boards are updated immediately. And you make sure there is a train describer board at the entrance to every platform so that arriving passengers know to go elsewhere.

If you're announcing a platform change too close to departure for people to make it in time from the original platform, you're announcing it too late, full stop.

It's not rocket science and is standard practice in many European countries.

When platforms are properly designed with best-practice, generally passenger flow simulations and calculations should be done including all the worst-case scenarios (trains arriving simulatenously on both sides of an island platform with full train loads of departing passengers waiting on the platform) ensuring that no dangerous passenger flows occur as part of their safety case. Where this is not possible for some reason, there should be formal, written procedures and risk assessments in place, including for signallers (e.g. prohibiting simulatneous departures or arrivals from adjacent platforms) to mitigate those worst-case scenarios until acceptably safe passenger flow is acheived.

Not haphazard suppression of platforms and last-minute announcements causing stress for passengers and safety risks in themselves. If Network Rail don't have properly enforced standards for that kind of thing, then they are definitely not applying best-practice.

 

[Robski_]

Love KGX where it seems like every platform is always suppressed.

It's been behaving a little bit better recently. Now they send platform information, only once it has been confirmed though.

Very very rarely does confirmed platform not get "relayed at all".

It happens somewhat often at certain stations. Kings Cross was not sending any platform information for a number of weeks a few months back.

Platform advertisements are highly unlikely to be done on a Darwin workstation panel, and instead uses the CIS controller software as provided by the operator (e.g. Worldline)

The CIS workstation should be relaying data to Darwin. Sometimes that fails - usually because the Darwin connection/workstation has failed and no one is bothered to restart it.

 

[Horizon22]

It happens somewhat often at certain stations. Kings Cross was not sending any platform information for a number of weeks a few months back.

The CIS workstation should be relaying data to Darwin. Sometimes that fails - usually because the Darwin connection/workstation has failed and no one is bothered to restart it.

Then that is a fault and not the normal way of running at Kings Cross.

Even if a Darwin connection fails, the local information boards will still work independently. However it is not that "nobody has bothered to restart it". Again it is normally a fault, and TOCs are not responsible for that connection failing.

If Trainline are showing suppressed platforms they probably should stop that, but there's a very good chance they're ignoring the flag because the TOC cannot be bothered to properly maintain the data in Darwin and/or release platforms sensibly.

Trainline does it for any station, so it isn't related to any TOCs. The vast majority of stations in this country do not have surpressed platforms.

 

[OscarH]

Trainline does it for any station, so it isn't related to any TOCs. The vast majority of stations in this country do not have surpressed platforms.

Yeah which they are entitled to do for all stations which don't do suppression (there might be an argument about text size, I don't remember what it looks like, but if it says estimated and isn't really tiny text I don't see a problem). My point is they might be showing it for suppressed stations because the data management of those stations is (on average) so poor

 

[YorksLad12]

Love KGX where it seems like every platform is always suppressed.

I find King Cross moderately easy to work out where my train is going from before it's announced (see what's occupied or just leaving; see what's coming in; narrow it down to two-ish). That's the easy bit... getting through the gate line with everyone else, that's the issue. And even though I'm travelling First, my carriage has people seated with their laptops out before I've boarded, so they must be really quick off the mark.

The only problem I've had recently was at Leeds. RTT said my train would be on P12, the information screens on the Northern Concourse and the gate line both said P12... I arrived on P12 to find it was on P9 (I was cutting it fine as it was).

 

[DelW]

Out of curiosity, what's Blackpool North like these days?



MARK

I nearly quoted Blackpool North as an example, but I've never actually experienced it myself, whereas I've been through Euston relatively frequently.

 

[Jonny]

Euston have even started doing that with London Overground, which is something of an exercise in futility since there are only two platforms that it can realistically use (9 and 10, with third rail) without having to do a power changeover.

I did once "talk" my sister (over WhatsApp text) to an LNER service at King's Cross using RTT's unit allocation and headcode, plus traksy's headcode-based mapping. Sometimes you can also tell it's the right train because it's the only one it could be. Frankly it is more likely that someone is sent to one platform by the station displays in good faith, then the platform is changed, than for something to go wrong (using Network Rail's headcode-signalling data).

 

[185]

It's becoming a nuisance at some stations with passengers coming down early, obstructing the cleaners and then having the nerve to complain about the mess after departure. On one instance a train is required to be locked up with all passengers off to couple up - this delayed the train's departure and subsequently lost it's path on the finite mainline.

Another kicked off after being caught out with a set swap - the new train was clearly advertised on CIS screens and NRE app but guessing his RTT didn't refresh, leading Mr Angry looking out the window of his empty train at departure time thinking "ooo wonder where that trains going??".

 

[Sean Emmett]

Yes Paddington can be a pain. In the old days there used to me 'please queue here' boards for the popular departures.

I tend to skulk in the Mad Bishop & Bear with an eye on the departure boards in the pub, scrolling through RTT and Traksy.

But yes they can make late set changes at Paddington, and increasingly frequently at Temple Meads on the local services.

Edit: I recall being on a train at Marylebone that was cancelled on the web, before even the guard was made aware!

 

[D6975]

If you know the headcode of your train then finding out where it is going from is a doddle at many of the larger stations (including KGX). All you have to do is find the little box on the wall that displays all the services in the station. At KGX, if you're in the circulating area for P1-8, turn to look away from the platforms and you will see it on the wall at waist height.

 

[sheff1]

Personally, I think it's best if people don't go on the platform until it is announced,

If I had taken that approach I would have missed a number of trains over the years where the platform wasn’t announced at all.

 

[Hadders]

Personally, I think it's best if people don't go on the platform until it is announced, even if you know what platform it is due to RTT or something similar - most likely you are just going to get in the way, and if you wait at the entrance to the platform you will get on first anyway without causing any staff members any issues.
Once the platform is announced the railway is ready for you to board, so that's when you should join the train.

The way Euston, and to an extent Paddington, behave in announcing platforms less than five minutes before departure with the resultant stampede to the platform is a reason why some passengers try and get ahead of the game.

 

[bramling]

It's becoming a nuisance at some stations with passengers coming down early, obstructing the cleaners and then having the nerve to complain about the mess after departure. On one instance a train is required to be locked up with all passengers off to couple up - this delayed the train's departure and subsequently lost it's path on the finite mainline.

Another kicked off after being caught out with a set swap - the new train was clearly advertised on CIS screens and NRE app but guessing his RTT didn't refresh, leading Mr Angry looking out the window of his empty train at departure time thinking "ooo wonder where that trains going??".

In the latter case, should anyone care about Mr Angry?

As it happens, I got caught out at King’s Cross just last night by a unit swap, and ended up on the wrong train. The information was there, had I looked for it, but to be fair I was a bit distracted by other issues so didn’t double check and keep an eye on the TD berths as I normally would. As it happens, no big deal as it simply meant having to change trains and go a funny route to my destination, but I wouldn’t have complained, and if I did complain wouldn’t expect it to be taken seriously.

 

[mangyiscute]

The way Euston, and to an extent Paddington, behave in announcing platforms less than five minutes before departure with the resultant stampede to the platform is a reason why some passengers try and get ahead of the game.

I still don't think there's any need to wait on the platform or certainly to board the train before it is ready - I'll wait next to the gates for the platform, go straight through as soon as it's announced and you're ahead of the stampede and get on first so you have your choice of seats, all without getting in the way of any staff

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I still don't think there's any need to wait on the platform or certainly to board the train before it is ready - I'll wait next to the gates for the platform, go straight through as soon as it's announced and you're ahead of the stampede and get on first so you have your choice of seats, all without getting in the way of any staff

At Euston I usually go to the top of the platform to watch the trains arriving or leaving.
Then board once I see the cleaners get off or once it's announced.

 

[bramling]

I still don't think there's any need to wait on the platform or certainly to board the train before it is ready - I'll wait next to the gates for the platform, go straight through as soon as it's announced and you're ahead of the stampede and get on first so you have your choice of seats, all without getting in the way of any staff

Of course there’s no *need*. However it’s a lot more comfortable to wait on a train than a platform or concourse, and allows productive use of the time.

The railway’s preference for people not doing it centres around “it makes life harder for us”, which isn’t really what should be being aspired to.

In any case, if I sit down at at table and there’s rubbish there, I will clear it away either to another table or to a bin, so it’s not going to cause any hassle for the cleaners.

 

[apbj]

A classic case of blaming the customer for failing to pass on timely and accurate information that is available through other sources. The correct solution would be to improve the way platform information and boarding is managed. The solution being used here is that customers should stand obediently and to their own inconvenience while the operator decides what is best for them.

 

[Bantamzen]

Ah, all this reminds me of the good old days when the very first Network Rail live times feed became available on mobile (GPRS). Many a fun time spotting a last minute platform change before it had been announced at Leeds station, and making my move before anyone else. These days with it's expansion, platform management seems a lot smoother, but its interesting to see that at some major stations Passenger Chess is still alive and well...

 

[Deafdoggie]

The railway is always in a race to the bottom when it comes to customer service.

 

[Hadders]

I still don't think there's any need to wait on the platform or certainly to board the train before it is ready - I'll wait next to the gates for the platform, go straight through as soon as it's announced and you're ahead of the stampede and get on first so you have your choice of seats, all without getting in the way of any staff

I refer you to this thread. I’ve personally been caught in a stampede at Euston and if things don’t change it’s only a matter of time before someone is seriously injured.

Dangerous boarding procedures at Euston

Does having onboard cleaning crew on longer distance / 'inter city' type services arriving into London Euston potentially facilitate quicker turnaround times? No as turnarounds in the base timetable have mandated turnaround times. They would have to be agreed to be reduced.

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[nlogax]

The way Euston, and to an extent Paddington, behave in announcing platforms less than five minutes before departure with the resultant stampede to the platform is a reason why some passengers try and get ahead of the game.

Absolutely. I will always use third party apps at Euston. Doing so has saved me a ton of bother over the years, not to mention several hundreds pounds of potential expense for hotels / additional tickets. I wish this whole situation could be resolved but as long as the Euston regime doesn't change then nor will mine.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Absolutely. I will always use third party apps at Euston. Doing so has saved me a ton of bother over the years, not to mention several hundreds pounds of potential expense for hotels / additional tickets. I wish this whole situation could be resolved but as long as the Euston regime doesn't change then nor will mine.

Even before those apps existed I used the arrivals display (now missing) to work out what platforms would be. If you know what interworks with what it's quite easy to work it out. Realtime Trains of course provides a better solution if used carefully, I've only fallen victim to a set swap once which is far better than stress every time.