Please help — Stopped at Farringdon w/ valid ticket

[BSmart1991]

Hi All,

I travelled from Gatwick to Farringdon today and was stopped at Farringdon station, because my ticket was not 'validated'; the barriers were genuinely open at Gatwick, so I wandered through and hopped on my train. I bought an anytime return journey from Gatwick to Farringdon.

For complete context, I have previously been stopped at Farringdon towards the end of last year for travelling without a valid ticket, which was a huge regret. This incident has been settled and closed, and I will not make that mistake again.

I understand the process to be undertaken and await the prosecution letter to give my side of the story. I was intiailly extremely frustrated and refued to give my details immediately, and attempted to fight my corner by demonstrating all previous tickets that I've purchased historically (from Gatwick to Farringdon). Although my home address is a 10 min cycle from Gatwick, my address comes under the Crawley umbrella — the officer was adamant that I am lying and that I should be getting a train from Crawley. For those of you who are interested, my home post code is RH10 3SU.

If the barriers are open when I return to Gatwick later today, I plan on taking some photos given that the prosecution officer stated that 'there's no way the barriers were open at this time at Gatwick'. Perhaps they are leaving them open deliberately to catch offenders at the other end...who knows.

My question is:

Given that I genuinely hold a valid ticket for my entire journey, my understanding is that they cannot prosecute me or charge me for the cost of the ticket. Am I also correct in assuming that it is not possible/reasonable for them to charge me for any administrative fee(s), given that I do/did hold a valid ticket for my entire journey? Given that the previous incident has been dealt with, I can't see how this can come into their consideration when reviewing this individual case.

As aforementioned, I plan on taking pics if the barriers are open, evidence of my home address and ticket, and stating that I understand the importance of validating my digital ticket in future. Any advice on how to approach my response letter would also be appreciated.

Thanks for your help.

Brad

 

[jfollows]

You do not need to ‘validate’ a ticket, if the barriers are open you just walk through them.

If you have a valid ticket - which it appears that you do - then they can’t charge you a penny.

They probably think you might be trying to reuse an open ticket by not scanning it on departure, but what they think doesn’t matter a fig here. If they talked about needing to ‘validate’ your ticket then they are making things up - not unknown - and talking rubbish..

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@BSmart1991. Welcome to the forum. What train had you actually just been on when you were stopped at Farringdon. Was it a different / earlier one to that shown on the pic (upthread)?

 

[jfollows]

@BSmart1991. Welcome to the forum. What train had you actually just been on when you were stopped at Farringdon. Was it a different / earlier one to that shown on the pic (upthread)?

It‘s an anytime return ticket.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It‘s an anytime return ticket.

Indeed, but might it have been purchased on the train after departure from Gatwick Airport?

 

[jfollows]

Hi All,

As aforementioned, I plan on taking pics if the barriers are open, evidence of my home address and ticket, and stating that I understand the importance of validating my digital ticket in future. Any advice on how to approach my response letter would also be appreciated.

Thanks for your help.

Brad

Do not say anything about ‘validating’ your ticket in future, it’s not necessary. There are only a few tickets which require validation before use - a flexi season ticket for example - but an open return isn’t one of them.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi All,

I travelled from Gatwick to Farringdon today and was stopped at Farringdon station, because my ticket was not 'validated'; the barriers were genuinely open at Gatwick, so I wandered through and hopped on my train. I bought an anytime return journey from Gatwick to Farringdon.

For complete context, I have previously been stopped at Farringdon towards the end of last year for travelling without a valid ticket, which was a huge regret. This incident has been settled and closed, and I will not make that mistake again.

I understand the process to be undertaken and await the prosecution letter to give my side of the story. I was intiailly extremely frustrated and refued to give my details immediately, and attempted to fight my corner by demonstrating all previous tickets that I've purchased historically (from Gatwick to Farringdon). Although my home address is a 10 min cycle from Gatwick, my address comes under the Crawley umbrella — the officer was adamant that I am lying and that I should be getting a train from Crawley. For those of you who are interested, my home post code is RH10 3SU.

If the barriers are open when I return to Gatwick later today, I plan on taking some photos given that the prosecution officer stated that 'there's no way the barriers were open at this time at Gatwick'. Perhaps they are leaving them open deliberately to catch offenders at the other end...who knows.

My question is:

Given that I genuinely hold a valid ticket for my entire journey, my understanding is that they cannot prosecute me or charge me for the cost of the ticket. Am I also correct in assuming that it is not possible/reasonable for them to charge me for any administrative fee(s), given that I do/did hold a valid ticket for my entire journey? Given that the previous incident has been dealt with, I can't see how this can come into their consideration when reviewing this individual case.

As aforementioned, I plan on taking pics if the barriers are open, evidence of my home address and ticket, and stating that I understand the importance of validating my digital ticket in future. Any advice on how to approach my response letter would also be appreciated.

Thanks for your help.

Brad

What time did your train depart, and what time did you purchase the ticket?

There is no need to validate an eticket whatsoever. On most flows you can't even do this as there are no barriers.

 

[jfollows]

Indeed, but might it have been purchased on the train after departure from Gatwick Airport?

Good point.

 

[BSmart1991]

Thanks for the swift resposnes guys.

The train that I got on from Gatwick departed at 9:16....but surely this is irrelavent if it's an antime return?

I also didn't mention anything about validating the ticket - this is the language/word that the prosecution officer used because he did not believe that I travelled from Gatwick (as my address has Crawley in it).

Thanks for the swift resposnes guys.

The train that I got on from Gatwick departed at 9:16....but surely this is irrelavent if it's an antime return?

I also didn't mention anything about validating the ticket - this is the language/word that the prosecution officer used because he did not believe that I travelled from Gatwick (as my address has Crawley in it).

Correction: The train departed GTW at 08:16 (not 09:16).

 

[jfollows]

Thanks for the swift resposnes guys.

The train that I got on from Gatwick departed at 9:16....but surely this is irrelavent if it's an antime return?

I also didn't mention anything about validating the ticket - this is the language/word that the prosecution officer used because he did not believe that I travelled from Gatwick (as my address has Crawley in it).


Correction: The train departed GTW at 08:16 (not 09:16).

When and where did you buy the ticket, though?

 

[BSmart1991]

The two other officers that I spoke to advised that from now on, even if barriers are open, to validate the ticket by scanning it....to prevent being stopped in future.

Bonkers.

When and where did you buy the ticket, though?

I bought the ticket at Gatwick before walking through the barriers.

 

[jfollows]

The two other officers that I spoke to advised that from now on, even if barriers are open, to validate the ticket by scanning it....to prevent being stopped in future.

Bonkers.


I bought the ticket at Gatwick before walking through the barriers.

Then that’s all fine and otherwise you’re being told rubbish as we’ve said.

 

[BSmart1991]

Surely that doesn't matter though. If someone is in a rush and buys their ticket even after hopping on a train and it's departed. The fact they they hold a valid ticket for the entire length of their journey, what's the problem? So long as someone can present their ticket...

 

[jfollows]

PS I never ‘validate’ a ticket myself either, the barriers at Manchester Piccadilly are often open and I just walk through.

Surely that doesn't matter though. If someone is in a rush and buys their ticket even after hopping on a train and it's departed. The fact they they hold a valid ticket for the entire length of their journey, what's the problem? So long as someone can present their ticket...

No, boarding a train without holding a valid ticket is an offence. With exceptions such as ticket machines being broken.

 

[BSmart1991]

PS I never ‘validate’ a ticket myself either,

No, boarding a train without holding a valid ticket is an offence. With exceptions such as ticket machines being broken.

Oooo ok good to know - thank you. How do you evidence that a machine is broken? Remember to take a photo?

 

[jfollows]

Oooo ok good to know - thank you. How do you evidence that a machine is broken? Remember to take a photo?

It helps if you do.
From https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...3/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf

You must hold a valid Ticket or authority to travel before you board a train where there was
the opportunity to buy one unless one of the following circumstances applies:
6.1.1 At the station where you start your journey, there is no means of purchasing a
Ticket, either because there is no Ticket office open or a self-service Ticket machine
is not in working order, or will not accept your only available method of payment
(card or cash); and where notices indicate that Penalty Fares may apply from
that station, you purchase a Permit to Travel if there is a working Permit to Travel
issuing machine at the station where you start your journey – see Condition 10 for
more information about Penalty Fares; or
6.1.2 The station is staffed, and you are specifically permitted to board a train service
by an authorised member of staff, or you have received a written notice or heard
an audible announcement to this effect; or
6.1.3 At the station where you start your journey, there is no means of purchasing a
Ticket, because
6.1.3.1 the Ticket office is closed; or
6.1.3.2 a self-service Ticket machine is not in working order, or will not
accept your preferred method of payment (card or cash); or
6.1.3.3 You have a disability and Ticket purchasing arrangements at the
station you are departing from are not accessible to you.
In these cases, you must, as soon as you are reasonably able, buy an appropriate
Ticket to complete your journey. The price of the Ticket you purchase will be the same
as if you had bought a Ticket at the station from which you first departed.
INFORMATION: This means that you should buy a Ticket from the conductor
on the train if there is one available; at an interchange station provided there is
sufficient time before your connecting service; or, if neither of these is possible,
at your destination.

 

[BSmart1991]

It helps if you do.
From https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...3/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf

Good to know.

So my plan is to state the time that I purchased my ticket (via email confirmation and time stamp). I would imagine that they can check this at their end anyway, by checking the barcode.

Present screenshots of the train that I boarded and alighted from (showing the time stamps).

Provide evidence of my home address.

Hopefully get a pic of the barriers indeed being open during peak hours at Gatwick (albeit this one is prob pointless)

Implore them to review the CCTV at Gatwick station, where they'll see the barriers were open.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Oooo ok good to know - thank you. How do you evidence that a machine is broken? Remember to take a photo?

That'd be one way, but it's not really the issue at hand.

So, basically, because you hadn't scanned in your (already purchased, Anytime) ticket at Gatwick Airport, and you have a Crawley residential postcode, revenue protection at Farringdon reckon you must necessarily have commenced your journey at Crawley?!

Be right in saying that the Forge Wood district of Crawley is actually a mile shorter / nearer walk to Gatwick Airport station than it is to Crawley station?

 

[rs101]

You do not need to ‘validate’ a ticket, if the barriers are open you just walk through them.

If you have a valid ticket - which it appears that you do - then they can’t charge you a penny.

They probably think you might be trying to reuse an open ticket by not scanning it on departure, but what they think doesn’t matter a fig here. If they talked about needing to ‘validate’ your ticket then they are making things up - not unknown - and talking rubbish..

I regularly make a the return journey from Manningtree to Stratford (then onward on either underground or DLR) using e-tickets - there's no way for me to actually validate them as neither end has the ability to scan anything.

Good to know.

So my plan is to state the time that I purchased my ticket (via email confirmation and time stamp). I would imagine that they can check this their end anyway, by checking the barcode.

Present screenshots of the train that I boarded and alighted from (showing the time stamps).

Provide evidence of my home address.

Hopefully get a pic of the barriers indeed being open during peak hours at Gatwick (albeit this one is prob pointless)

Implore them to review the CCTV at Gatwick station where they'll see the barriers were open.

Personally, if you do get any letter threatening prosecution, I'd send them the confirmation of the purchase (to prove you had a valid ticket before boarding the train) along with the home address and request they cancel the case as there's no evidence of any offence being committed.

Perhaps even request they retrain their officers to not ask passengers to validate tickets when there's no legal requirement to do so.

 

[jfollows]

Good to know.

So my plan is to state the time that I purchased my ticket (via email confirmation and time stamp). I would imagine that they can check this their end anyway, by checking the barcode.

They can.

I once found something that would read it for you, but I can't find it any more.

 

[emkay666]

I split ticket at gatwick airport so my gatwick to london ticket would never be validated at the start only at the end ?

 

[jfollows]

I split ticket at gatwick airport so my gatwick to london ticket would never be validated at the start only at the end ?

That’s one of the reasons there can be no requirement to ‘validate’ tickets, yes.

Good to know.

So my plan is to state the time that I purchased my ticket (via email confirmation and time stamp). I would imagine that they can check this their end anyway, by checking the barcode.

Present screenshots of the train that I boarded and alighted from (showing the time stamps).

Provide evidence of my home address.

Hopefully get a pic of the barriers indeed being open during peak hours at Gatwick (albeit this one is prob pointless)

Implore them to review the CCTV at Gatwick station where they'll see the barriers were open.

If you do get something from them, feel free to post it plus your proposed response here if you want input and/or correction before sending.

 

[kkong]

They can.
I once found something that would read it for you, but I can't find it any more.
It's an Aztec code, by the way.

One such tool is here, and it shows the ticket was purchsed at 08:14 on the day of travel, i.e. before the 08:16 departure of the sample itinerary shown on the ticket.

 

[DeverseSam]

Sold by FTPL INTERNET BOOKING ENGINE (3043)

Is that the forum booking site?

 

[skyhigh]

Sold by FTPL INTERNET BOOKING ENGINE (3043)

Is that the forum booking site?

Pretty sure it isn't.

 

[Haywain]

Pretty sure it isn't.

I think it was bought from a site driven by Raileasy.

 

[X-City-WM]

According to this post, it could potentially be TrainSplit.

 

[Jan Mayen]

As a minor point of interest, some of the exit ticket gates at Gatwick Airport (specifically, the exit from the southern bridge heading into the airport) were open yesterday afternoon, BUT staffed by Thameslink RPI's.
I saw one person walking through (as they were open), but told to go back and scan out. I went through at about the same time (5.30pm ish), tapping out with my KeyGo card.

I've also seen the gates from the new concourse heading to the car park on the east side open, but all on red so you couldn't tap in or out.

 

[30907]

Just a small point which may explain - but certainly does not excuse - the suspicion of the RPIs: the Anytime DAY Return from Crawley to London TL is twice the price of that from Gatwick!
Presume something to do with Oyster?

 

[furlong]

When and where did you buy the ticket, though?

Issued at 08:14 it says.
The train's arrival is recorded as 08:13 but the departure as 08:17. The train didn't stop at Crawley. So is the allegation that you began on the 08:02 Victoria train and changed at Gatwick rather than East Croydon? Meaning you must have left the house at what time to do that compared to the time you left the house to catch the Gatwick service? Why would someone choose to set off earlier to make a longer journey that would also a lot cost more (if the correct price was paid) rather than taking the shorter, cheaper, more convenient direct train option?

demonstrating all previous tickets that I've purchased historically (from Gatwick to Farringdon).

Did the inspector scan any of them to check whether or not they showed touch-ins at Gatwick?

Given that the previous incident has been dealt with, I can't see how this can come into their consideration when reviewing this individual case.

What was that journey? Also from Gatwick not Crawley?