Plug sockets for laptop only

[edwin_m]

Any objections to using such a socket for charging an electric scooter or electric motorbike?

Perhaps this is why they have now been banned on trains...

 

[renegademaster]

My ebike charger only draws 3A, but it is on the cheaper end

 

[En]

When has this ever happened?

every year like clockwork Apple bricks devices because it has decide to 'retire' older versions of iOS but unlike Android or feature phones where cessation of support leaves the device working but increasingly less secure the retirement of an iOS version effectively bricks the device

 

[najaB]

Poorly earthed sockets/chargers can cause touchscreens not to work properly while plugged in but won't actually harm the phone.

That doesn't make any sense to me, as most phone chargers aren't even earthed. I have had issues using a phone connected to the USB outlet on the other hand, which I've put down to high-frequency noise on top of the DC voltage.

 

[Starmill]

Perhaps this is why they have now been banned on trains...

Indeed. And Motorcycles of any kind likely have never been permitted.

Electrically-assisted bicycles are OK but I probably wouldn't risk charging one.

That doesn't make any sense to me, as most phone chargers aren't even earthed. I have had issues using a phone connected to the USB outlet on the other hand, which I've put down to high-frequency noise on top of the DC voltage.

I've personally never experienced the problem when on diesel on an 800 or 802 either, even though my device did have the problem when on the AC.

 

[sor]

It can only be a carry over from the wording when people were more likely to be charging a laptop than a phone while commuting that has never changed. Can't imagine any objection to a phone. Though that being said the LNER azumas appear to mess with my phone when charging so maybe there is logic to it

glad to know I'm not the only one, as it happens to me on GWR's 80xs - but only when on electric power with the touchscreen becoming useless. when it's on diesel it's fine.

Most if not all the chargers I have seen are class 2 devices with no 'earth'. The earth pin is made of plastic.

though the rise of USB-C will mean people might use different chargers. The one I use on trains these days at least has a metal earth pin, though whether it's connected is another matter.

every year like clockwork Apple bricks devices because it has decide to 'retire' older versions of iOS but unlike Android or feature phones where cessation of support leaves the device working but increasingly less secure the retirement of an iOS version effectively bricks the device

Do you know what the term "brick" means? Apple does not release updates to render devices unusable, which would be the act of "bricking". If anything their software support is better than anyone else. They released a security update for the iPhone 5S last year. Do Samsung update 10 year old phones?

 

[kacper]

every year like clockwork Apple bricks devices because it has decide to 'retire' older versions of iOS but unlike Android or feature phones where cessation of support leaves the device working but increasingly less secure the retirement of an iOS version effectively bricks the device

What are you talking about

 

[Recessio]

20-25 years ago I saw someone using a desktop PC in first class on MML

Saw someone 15 years ago using an extension lead in a cleaners socket on an electrostar, to play on a PS2 and a small flatscreen TV.

There's also an image that did the rounds year ago of a passenger travelling in hot weather with a large free-standing fan plugged into the cleaners socket on a Networker. Not sure how much current they draw.

 

[Russel]

Well it is if she’s spoiled your charging opportunity!

My phone battery lasts all day, I was only topping it up a little so no big issue for me.

I looked around and in all fairness to the young lady, the 390s have no signs to say what can and cannot be plugged in like most stock has, so she wasn't to know it wasn't a great idea to plug her straighteners in!

 

[cool110]

...a large free-standing fan plugged into the cleaners socket on a Networker. Not sure how much current they draw.

Not as much as whatever the cleaners will be using. The difference with those sockets being that the supply isn't regulated, so the voltage can vary as the train moves.

 

[Chiltern006]

It can only be a carry over from the wording when people were more likely to be charging a laptop than a phone while commuting that has never changed. Can't imagine any objection to a phone. Though that being said the LNER azumas appear to mess with my phone when charging so maybe there is logic to it

I’ve noticed this too, common with other early gen 80xs aswell

 

[Meerkat]

I’ve noticed this too, common with other early gen 80xs aswell

Had the dodgy screen whilst charging on 395s and a recent LNER 80x. On the 395 it made the phone almost unusable

 

[signed]

Happens on the newer TGV EuroDuplex as well, but only with my laptop's thouchpad, my phone works fine

Haven't had issue with 390s though

 

[AM9]

Had the dodgy screen whilst charging on 395s and a recent LNER 80x. On the 395 it made the phone almost unusable

If you've got one of thei leads that has a fe5rrite suppressor along the cable (black plastic lump) using that would probably remove enough conducted or radiated disturbances from the DC supply. Otherwise, better to not use the touch screen whilst charging on a train.

 

[noddy1878]

I’ve noticed this too, common with other early gen 80xs aswell

It happens to me if I am on 80x on GWR but only if on the juice. If it's diesel it doesn't do it.

 

[Recessio]

Not as much as whatever the cleaners will be using. The difference with those sockets being that the supply isn't regulated, so the voltage can vary as the train moves.

Is that always the case? I remember someone telling me that the supplies on customer and cleaner sockets were identical. Does it vary on different train types, or am I just wrong?

 

[AM9]

Is that always the case? I remember someone telling me that the supplies on customer and cleaner sockets were identical. Does it vary on different train types, or am I just wrong?

Surely they can't be the same, - the on board auxiliary supplies that feed the passenger accessibe services have to meet the normal domestic supply reuiremets in respect of surge, harmonics and other emissions. Utility outlets are there for industrial devices like cleaning equipment, lighting and maybe temporary tools or cooling kit. Those devices are much more likely to be proof against surges occurring under running owing to 3rd rail/OLE section breaks, current peaks and voltage peaks/sags from the traction system.
Maybe the operators should adopt the long proven LU practice of non-standard power socket designs, (in their case, the 13A plug with the earth pin rotated 90 deg. to a landscape orientation). It would virtually remove the risk of rogue equipment being connected in services, - which for some classes of stock also creates a severe trip safety hazard.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I notice beside me on this SWR train I’m travelling on that there is a socket for laptop chargers only, next to my seat. Is there any reason why it might not suit a mobile phone charger, if indeed this is the case? It seems a bit odd that the socket would be for so specific a purpose. I can understand it’s not intended for ghetto blasters and kettles and such like but mobile charging is definitely a useful thing on trains. Maybe it’s just easier to make the label without mentioning mobile chargers.

If it’s on the 444/450 they date from before smartphones were common when phones had a battery life of nearly a week.

 

[CV110]

This "Plug socket for laptop battery chargers only" sign amuses me every time I see it. What is a "laptop battery charger" anyway? "Laptops only" would have been easier to understand. "Laptops and mobiles only" would have been better. Or why not a pictogram like almost all other companies use?

 

[najaB]

This "Plug socket for laptop battery chargers only" sign amuses me every time I see it. What is a "laptop battery charger" anyway? "Laptops only" would have been easier to understand. "Laptops and mobiles only" would have been better. Or why not a pictogram like almost all other companies use?

I guess it's because very few laptops connect directly to the mains, so it is accurate to say 'Chargers only' rather than 'Laptops only'.

 

[Dougal2345]

This "Plug socket for laptop battery chargers only" sign amuses me every time I see it. What is a "laptop battery charger" anyway? "Laptops only" would have been easier to understand. "Laptops and mobiles only" would have been better. Or why not a pictogram like almost all other companies use?

I've never liked "plug socket" either... I call them "mains sockets" myself, but that aside, surely "socket" would suffice?

 

[dosxuk]

I've never liked "plug socket" either...

Plug socket

Socket plug?

 

[najaB]

I've never liked "plug socket" either... I call them "mains sockets" myself, but that aside, surely "socket" would suffice?

Officially they are "socket-outlets", as per BS 1363.

 

[edwin_m]

Didn't "plug socket" arise from trying to distinguish between mains and USB? Then again, USB also has a plug, as do many other types of socket, so it's certainly not the best terminology.

 

[Krokodil]

If you've got one of thei leads that has a fe5rrite suppressor along the cable (black plastic lump) using that would probably remove enough conducted or radiated disturbances from the DC supply. Otherwise, better to not use the touch screen whilst charging on a train.

Any recommendations? I've had the same issue that others have reported when travelling on 800s on electric.

Is that always the case? I remember someone telling me that the supplies on customer and cleaner sockets were identical. Does it vary on different train types, or am I just wrong?

On newer units they probably do run off of the same bus. On older units the cleaners' sockets were probably installed before any provision was thought of for charging devices, and they'll just have been designed to power a vacuum cleaner while the unit is static.

 

[Darandio]

Didn't "plug socket" arise from trying to distinguish between mains and USB? Then again, USB also has a plug, as do many other types of socket, so it's certainly not the best terminology.

I wouldn't have thought so. I've heard them referred to as plug socket way before USB was even a thing.

 

[MrJeeves]

Poorly earthed sockets/chargers can cause touchscreens not to work properly while plugged in but won't actually harm the phone.

That doesn't make any sense to me, as most phone chargers aren't even earthed. I have had issues using a phone connected to the USB outlet on the other hand, which I've put down to high-frequency noise on top of the DC voltage.

I've personally never experienced the problem when on diesel on an 800 or 802 either, even though my device did have the problem when on the AC.

glad to know I'm not the only one, as it happens to me on GWR's 80xs - but only when on electric power with the touchscreen becoming useless. when it's on diesel it's fine.

Happens on the newer TGV EuroDuplex as well, but only with my laptop's thouchpad, my phone works fine

It's nothing to do with earthing as no phone chargers I know of actually have an earth connection.

It's typically down to AC leakage onto the DC side of the charger. While devices don't typically get damaged by this, it manifests in weirdness on the touchscreen as it interferes with the capacitive touchscreen technology that any modern device uses. The AC can often be up to 50% of the line-side (what comes out of the plug, not along the railway lines!) voltage, but only a small current, so isn't dangerous.

I don't know why it doesn't happen on diesel, but I assume it's to do with the different ways the electricity is transformed for the auxiliaries on electric vs diesel. I will note that I don't seem to have these issues on DC third-rail trains that I've noticed.

It can also result in a potential difference between the device body and the train. You can often feel a tingling or vibrating sensation if you, for example, touch a metal part of the train (such as a seat, armrest, table, etc.) and a metal part of your device.

If you get a device charger with a proper earth connection which isn't fake (rare), the mains earth should be connected to the DC ground which should alleviate this issue by removing the potential difference between the device and the train.

Otherwise, my solution is typically to grab a power bank that supports passthrough charging and plug this into the mains, with your device plugged into the power bank. This extra layer should mean there's no issues anymore. Finding a power bank that does this is a pain. My Anker Prime power bank does it, but that's ridiculously expensive for what it is.

 

[En]

I've never liked "plug socket" either... I call them "mains sockets" myself, but that aside, surely "socket" would suffice?

it's one of things like 'train station' instead of 'rail(way) station' , the meaning is clear enough if a little 'ugly' to the mind and possibly a little nonsensical when you consider that twe have bus and coach stations where one goes ot catch a bus of a coach ... add in tube / underground and the accepted turns of speech there and you can see why ....

mains socket makes perfect sense
13 amp socket in isolation it's why ? but then if you look beyond the surface and that BS546 had 3 or 4 different sockets specified ( 2amp 2pin, 2 amp 3 pin, 5 amp and 15 amp ) and of course the ISO 60309 standard has multiple variations specified in the standard to account for voltage, phases, current and frequency ...

 

[edwin_m]

13 amp socket in isolation it's why ? but then if you look beyond the surface and that BS546 had 3 or 4 different sockets specified ( 2amp 2pin, 2 amp 3 pin, 5 amp and 15 amp ) and of course the ISO 60309 standard has multiple variations specified in the standard to account for voltage, phases, current and frequency ...

The mains sockets on trains are physically to the 13 amp standard but it would be misleading to describe them as such, because they can only take laptops and other low-current loads.

On Emirates some years back there was a mains socket (with holes to accept various international plugs) on the in-flight entertainment panel but it tripped out when I tried it with the laptop. More recently they had sockets in the bottom of the seat in front, which worked fine although I did have a lower-power laptop by then.

 

[En]

The mains sockets on trains are physically to the 13 amp standard but it would be misleading to describe them as such, because they can only take laptops and other low-current loads.

On Emirates some years back there was a mains socket (with holes to accept various international plugs) on the in-flight entertainment panel but it tripped out when I tried it with the laptop. More recently they had sockets in the bottom of the seat in front, which worked fine although I did have a lower-power laptop by then.

and that adds up to even more of a reason not to call Bs1363 sockets ' 13 amp sockets' as regardless of the supply avilable it;s the only 'standard' UK socket to most people. If we had stuck with a BS546 and radial mains at home / in the office it's quite likely that Laptop chargers especially those with 'mickey mouse' C5/C6 mains leads ( vs 'kettle lead' ) would have 5amp plugs