Plug sockets on new trains

[DarloRich]

Being devils advocate then, why should the railway be unique in high density public transport provision to provide plug sockets for people who can't get organised?

I wonder how many disorganised people will forget to go to the toilet before they have an hour on a 707. Circumstances are desperately different if you'll pardon the pun.

I am informed that buses & coaches often have plugs and free wifi now.

 

[Mordac]

I am informed that buses & coaches often have plugs and free wifi now.

Free wifi yes, but I've yet to see one with plugs, their mention upthread was the first I heard of it.

 

[jon0844]

Wi-Fi on buses really seems even less necessary than a train. On some trains, the solar reflective film/treatment on the glass and all the other metal can make it hard to get a god mobile signal inside. I can't imagine many people having problems on a bus!

So you've got a box somewhere with a 3G or, hopefully, 4G connection on a decent network and without too much throttling (so as to offer a good experience to other users). Meanwhile, I've got my own phone(s) that has a connection I share with nobody.

(Pedants; yes of course I'm sharing with other people on the cell site, but you know what I mean!)

 

[BigCj34]

Given that long distance buses have wifi, and trains from the 1980's such as the Intercity and early TGV have power sockets, there really is no excuse to not have sockets in 2016. Sadly, we don't use phones that could go 2 days without charging anymore.

Sure, we COULD be more organised, but then maybe people should bring their own coffee with them and not have to buy it on the train with that logic.

Who knows, maybe they'll add sockets in first class, charge them as a premium service like Scotrail do. Sadly, it's a case where it'll be a lot more to re-engineer the trains to have them than to have designed them in from the start.

 

[Starmill]

When I had a data limit, WiFi on the bus / train / at the station was very useful. I normally don't bother these days though. At least until 3 no longer want to offer me £15 a month for unlimited data

 

[AM9]

This whole thread is about providing power and connectivity on NEW trains but has been split out of the class 700 'now entering service' thread. In principle there is no real problem if it is deemed part of the requirement for any given stock and there is a desire to develop a market for more passengers. So looking at trains currently in production, and on order, which ones apart from the Thameslink class 700s do and don't have provision for passenger charging facilities?
The class 700 trains have power outlets omitted as part of the functional requirements of working in the core, the reasons for which have been covered several times in that and other threads. Additionally, their launch into service without power outlets is a matter of fact now so there is little to be gained by regurgitating the arguments, - which is why the discussion was removed from that thread in the first place.

 

[route:oxford]

Did you ask the guard when/if he came round if he could do anything about it obviously it is not ideal in the first place but the guard can reset it which could have sorted out the problem.
Sam

Yes, and no he couldn't.

 

[Wolfie]

Under the current privatised set-up, the DfT has a duty to direct and where necessary, finance infrastructure and rolling stock from public funds. The railway is currently funded 70% from travellers and 30% from the public purse, - the same purse that pays for health, roads, education, defence and many other things that we the public need. Strange as it may seem, the majority of the UK public aren't London commuters, and don't regard power outlets, seat-back tables and arm rests for travellers using brand-new trains in the south-east that important in the general scheme of things. Maybe some here think that they can justify them as a priority, but with the general tightening of budgets that Brexit might cause, I would imagine that most adults in the UK would see that as just pure selfishness.

I agree with you...so why, prey do tell, are such amenities being fitted to the far more heavily subsidised (with significantly lower ticket prices too) brand new rolling stock being procured for Northern commuters? As someone who pays the higher fares in the South East and also tax which is being used for those subsidies you better believe that I object to that!

 

[route:oxford]

Free wifi yes, but I've yet to see one with plugs, their mention upthread was the first I heard of it.

Really?

The X90 (formerly The Espress) and Oxford Tube have had them for years.

 

[AM9]

Really?

The X90 (formerly The Espress) and Oxford Tube have had them for years.

They're hardly typical bus services, more point-to-point coach services on a high volume route and heavily marketed as such.

 

[DarloRich]

Free wifi yes, but I've yet to see one with plugs, their mention upthread was the first I heard of it.

the X5 coach down here has them and i have seen them on service buses. The National Express has them

 

[Tetchytyke]

Free wifi yes, but I've yet to see one with plugs, their mention upthread was the first I heard of it.

Some operators (hello Stagecoach) have been very slow at installing them, others much quicker. Arriva and Go up here both have plenty of buses with plugs (both 3-pin and USB) and even more with free WiFi.

I agree with you...so why, prey do tell, are such amenities being fitted to the far more heavily subsidised (with significantly lower ticket prices too) brand new rolling stock being procured for Northern commuters?

Because Arriva did the specification for the new rolling stock up here, whereas the clowns at Horseferry Road were the ones to specify the 700s?

 

[Jona26]

Arriva have them on their "Sapphire" services. The 321 from Luton to Watford via St Albans, as well the 100/101/102 which operates from Luton to Stevenage via Hitchin, have USB sockets. While I use the latter a lot I've never really used them much, but that's probably as most of my cables are USB-C to USB-C nowadays

Many of the Arriva Sapphire/Coastliner services based in Wrexham or Hawarden deopts have had the plug sockets switched OOU due to passengers using them for hair straighteners and tripping the fuses.

This is according to several drivers on the routes.

 

[PeterC]

Many of the Arriva Sapphire/Coastliner services based in Wrexham or Hawarden deopts have had the plug sockets switched OOU due to passengers using them for hair straighteners and tripping the fuses.

This is according to several drivers on the routes.

I found this when I made a point of testing the USB charging with my new phone on the 280. The wi-fi availibility ir pretty eratic too.

 

[infobleep]

Under the current privatised set-up, the DfT has a duty to direct and where necessary, finance infrastructure and rolling stock from public funds. The railway is currently funded 70% from travellers and 30% from the public purse, - the same purse that pays for health, roads, education, defence and many other things that we the public need. Strange as it may seem, the majority of the UK public aren't London commuters, and don't regard power outlets, seat-back tables and arm rests for travellers using brand-new trains in the south-east that important in the general scheme of things. Maybe some here think that they can justify them as a priority, but with the general tightening of budgets that Brexit might cause, I would imagine that most adults in the UK would see that as just pure selfishness.

Why is wifi being rolled out. Surely that's an extra cost? The next South West Trains franchise says wifi across all trains. The trains Gatwick Express mostly use are rolling out wifi. That isn't free to install.

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[route:oxford]

Why is wifi being rolled out. Surely that's an extra cost? The next South West Trains franchise says wifi across all trains. The trains Gatwick Express mostly use are rolling out wifi. That isn't free to install.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

The world changes. WiFi is as essential as windows, doors and seats.

 

[infobleep]

The world changes. WiFi is as essential as windows, doors and seats.

Our plug sockets not essential?

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[cjmillsnun]

Our plug sockets not essential?

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No, socket outlets are not essential. You can get a decent USB power bank for a pound now.

 

[infobleep]

No, socket outlets are not essential. You can get a decent USB power bank for a pound now.

Indeed you can and I'm using one right now. Cost more than a £1 but it's if a far better quality. I believe in quality for somethings.

Soon we might have batteries that can be charged up in under 2 minutes and then providing all your technology is modern, a battery charging pack would do the job.

Whay I don't understand is why some trains have to plug sockets at every seat and others don't. I'm talking about trains Govia use here. Surely if they are not necessary then no new train should have them installed.

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[jon0844]

No, socket outlets are not essential. You can get a decent USB power bank for a pound now.

Decent? What capacity and output does a £1 powerbank come with? And what type of battery does it done fitted with (China generally have two grades).

I'd say you could get a fairly decent one for a tenner though.

 

[AM9]

The world changes. WiFi is as essential as windows, doors and seats.

Well not really. It's difficult to go anywhere on a train when there are no windows or doors, but millions of passengers travel quite happily without wi-fi. Please get real here.

 

[asylumxl]

Well not really. It's difficult to go anywhere on a train when there are no windows or doors, but millions of passengers travel quite happily without wi-fi. Please get real here.

Hmm. Usually people won't plan their travel based on the availability of WiFi though.

Personally, I'd prefer mobile reception throughout the TL core over WiFi on the trains.

 

[jon0844]

I don't use train Wi-Fi that much, but when I do it often doesn't work or has connection (or more to the point disconnection) problems. On Virgin, I've started by connecting my laptop to the Wi-Fi and soon ditched it for my portable hotspot.

As I don't try every time I can't really say how reliable train Wi-Fi is in general but it's certainly not something I could rely on in my own experience. Just like I've been let down with faulty power sockets too many times given how often I try them overall.

I can't be that unlucky can I?

Virgin Wi-Fi on the underground seems to work 95% of the time, and the Cloud and O2 Wi-Fi at rail stations seems okay too. The service at St Pancras low level hasn't let me login for months.

 

[asylumxl]

I don't use train Wi-Fi that much, but when I do it often doesn't work or has connection (or more to the point disconnection) problems. On Virgin, I've started by connecting my laptop to the Wi-Fi and soon ditched it for my portable hotspot.

As I don't try every time I can't really say how reliable train Wi-Fi is in general but it's certainly not something I could rely on in my own experience. Just like I've been let down with faulty power sockets too many times given how often I try them overall.

I can't be that unlucky can I?

Virgin Wi-Fi on the underground seems to work 95% of the time, and the Cloud and O2 Wi-Fi at rail stations seems okay too. The service at St Pancras low level hasn't let me login for months.

I've found the LL WiFi works if I select basic internet but not if I try and log in, as you said.

Not that it matters. It will do for receiving messages and such.

 

[jon0844]

I don't get any data flow and tried on 3 different devices. If I could get anything, I'd be happy. It's the one place where it is using Wi-Fi or being in total radio silence.

Now I can go a few minutes without Internet access (just!) but if there's disruption or I need to check ongoing connections then it is very valuable.

Come 2018, it may be even more necessary. Possibly by then we will have 4G coverage installed down there?

 

[asylumxl]

I don't get any data flow and tried on 3 different devices. If I could get anything, I'd be happy. It's the one place where it is using Wi-Fi or being in total radio silence.

Now I can go a few minutes without Internet access (just!) but if there's disruption or I need to check ongoing connections then it is very valuable.

Come 2018, it may be even more necessary. Possibly by then we will have 4G coverage installed down there?

Ever the optimist I see :P.

 

[jon0844]

Ever the optimist I see :P.

If it was a one off, I could live without net connectivity down there. But it has been a problem for months. I contacted both the provider and Govia.

Got nothing from the former and a 'we'll look into it' from the latter.

I am glad someone else has confirmed the same problem.

Now I can get the first train south as in most cases I'm going from STP to Blackfriars or Farringdon. If I'm going to be waiting for a specific train and could be there 10 or 20 minutes, I'd rather like Wi-Fi or 4G.

Edit: I will ask EE and others next week if they have plans to install indoor coverage.

Edit 2: to get on topic again, maybe the platforms should have power sockets and USB ports. Spread them out along the whole platform and people may even more down!

 

[asylumxl]

If it was a one off, I could live without net connectivity down there. But it has been a problem for months. I contacted both the provider and Govia.

Got nothing from the former and a 'we'll look into it' from the latter.

I am glad someone else has confirmed the same problem.

Now I can get the first train south as in most cases I'm going from STP to Blackfriars or Farringdon. If I'm going to be waiting for a specific train and could be there 10 or 20 minutes, I'd rather like Wi-Fi or 4G.

Edit: I will ask EE and others next week if they have plans to install indoor coverage.

I'd like to see 4G personally. I'd like to see it introduced on LU too but I'm not holding my breath.

As I'm sure you know, LU had plans to trial it and had an offer from Huawei to donate the relevant equipment, but it was considered unfair and the idea scrapped. That was just over 5 years ago now...

I do wonder if the reluctance to provide mobile connectivity in such places has anything to do with the ad revenue generated from WiFi landing pages and such?

 

[transmanche]

Possibly by then we will have 4G coverage installed down there?

Ever the optimist I see :P.

Why not? T&W Metro has had mobile coverage in underground stations for EE, O2, and Vodafone users for well over a decade now.

 

[initiation]

Being devils advocate then, why should the railway be unique in high density public transport provision to provide plug sockets for people who can't get organised?

If it's unique then use it as a selling point! Although as we've seen other users such as buses and coaches already have these systems installed on many services. I don't drink tea or coffee, but I'm not bothered about those 'unorganised' people who buy drinks from on an on-board buffet which takes up seating space/increases weight.

Trains should absolutely be provided with some sort of power supply for charging mobiles and laptops. Yes I am a big user of power banks but there are many scenarios where these don't help even if you are 'organised'. The power banks don't help laptop issues and a reasonable size battery pack is also heavier and larger than a plug anyway.

I only travel for work by train once or twice a month but for a significant number of these journeys the train is slower and less convenient but I can make it up by plugging in and working the full journey length. If I'm limited by laptop battery (particularly following a day where I'm moving around various meetings/venues) then I'm much more likely to switch to the car option.