Plusbus - knowledge of bus driver?

[plugwash]

It is a useful product, but it also a mess, the size of coverage areas varies massively, there are special rules around "PTE" areas where the coverage area is huge but only the largest stations in the area offer plusbus and your rail ticket must be from outside the area. Trams may or may not be included depending on which city you are visiting.

So basically you have to individually research each plusbus to see if it's useful or not.

 

[noddingdonkey]

There was a rumour some years ago that the ability to buy the West Yorkshire Metro Day Rover in its bus and train variant from train conductors had been withdrawn because too many bus drivers were refusing to accept it on SPORTIS issued tickets rather than the special ticket stock held at station ticket offices, so few of these anecdotes surprise me.

 

[Kumquat]

It is a useful product, but it also a mess, the size of coverage areas varies massively, there are special rules around "PTE" areas where the coverage area is huge but only the largest stations in the area offer plusbus and your rail ticket must be from outside the area. Trams may or may not be included depending on which city you are visiting.

So basically you have to individually research each plusbus to see if it's useful or not.

I agree. The only times I've used Plusbus is when going to cities I know well enough to know I can get a bus to where I'm going, and that a return on the bus will cost more than the bus add-on. More likely, I'll get a cab one way then a bus later, which isn't worth the Plusbus.

I suspect the Plusbus option to attractions like Legoland accounts for the majority of Plusbuses sold, but have no data.

 

[Haywain]

I suspect the Plusbus option to attractions like Legoland accounts for the majority of Plusbuses sold, but have no data.

Legoland has an inclusive ticket from London, including rail travel, a shuttle bus and entry. The shuttle bus is not covered by PlusBus so buying one wouldn't help.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

Had my first outright refusal of a plusbus ticket today. First bus driver said that's a train ticket mate and just laughed at my explanation of what it was. I got off the bus and went to the office to complain and then returned to catch the following bus without issue. The driver had also overcharged the guy in front of me so I don't think he was exactly a star employee.

The office staff didn't know what a plusbus ticket was either but at least they looked it up in the drivers ticket manual and gave me a photo copy of the relevant page for next time

 

[AlbertBeale]

Had my first outright refusal of a plusbus ticket today. First bus driver said that's a train ticket mate and just laughed at my explanation of what it was. I got off the bus and went to the office to complain and then returned to catch the following bus without issue. The driver had also overcharged the guy in front of me so I don't think he was exactly a star employee.

The office staff didn't know what a plusbus ticket was either but at least they looked it up in the drivers ticket manual and gave me a photo copy of the relevant page for next time

Which Plusbus area was this in?

 

[Pit_buzzer]

Which Plusbus area was this in?

Sheffield plusbus, which very generously covers all of South Yorkshire but this driver was having none of it, he was basically treating me as a chancer with the most ridiculous story ever

 

[BJames]

Had my first outright refusal of a plusbus ticket today. First bus driver said that's a train ticket mate and just laughed at my explanation of what it was. I got off the bus and went to the office to complain and then returned to catch the following bus without issue. The driver had also overcharged the guy in front of me so I don't think he was exactly a star employee.

The office staff didn't know what a plusbus ticket was either but at least they looked it up in the drivers ticket manual and gave me a photo copy of the relevant page for next time

Is it worth reporting to Plusbus? Who knows, they might reach out to the company and remind them of their existence...

 

[Pit_buzzer]

Is it worth reporting to Plusbus? Who knows, they might reach out to the company and remind them of their existence...

The company had a drivers manual giving details and pictures of all valid tickets, it just seems that not everyone reads it, probably a bit like car drivers and highway code
Plusbus does seem to be a bit of a secret and the first staff didn't treat it as a complaint, more of a bit of pedantry
You might be right about bringing it to the attention of plusbus

 

[Haywain]

Bear in mind that at the moment it’s a case of a bus driver who can’t be bothered or no bus driver at all.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

Bear in mind that at the moment it’s a case of a bus driver who can’t be bothered or no bus driver at all.

Well yes, but they'd be better off just accepting anything they weren't confident about or at least accepting the advice of the customer, I tried to show him my screenshot of the plusbus leaflet but he didn't want to learn.

 

[WAB]

The West Yorkshire and South Yorkshire PlusBus zones are very generous, covering a vast area. Derby PlusBus, on the other hand, only covers you to the city limits - not very useful at all (and is only 5p cheaper!)

I must say, it's disappointing that there isn't much of a take-up. LNER promote it quite well on their website, not sure about other operators. One inconvenience is having to pick it up at a station, so it is difficult to use it at the start of your journey. Hopefully e-tickets will fix that in due course.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

The West Yorkshire and South Yorkshire PlusBus zones are very generous, covering a vast area. Derby PlusBus, on the other hand, only covers you to the city limits - not very useful at all (and is only 5p cheaper!)

I must say, it's disappointing that there isn't much of a take-up. LNER promote it quite well on their website, not sure about other operators. One inconvenience is having to pick it up at a station, so it is difficult to use it at the start of your journey. Hopefully e-tickets will fix that in due course.

Yep, I'd have used it much earlier if it been able to buy it from Northern, only when I tried it on LNER did I manage to buy it and it is excellent value.
I was expecting hassle having read of issues on this forum but have actually been pleasantly surprised with the ease of use and today came as a disappointment to get an outright refusal

 

[Dave W]

I've used it several times on trips home to Birmingham and the Black Country - again a generous allowance is in place for the area although care needs to be taken regarding Birmingham vs the Cradley Heath one which was designed for shuttling to Merry Hill but actually stretches across most of the Black Country. Despite that, it doesn't cover the Metro like the Birmingham one does (the Brum one also covers nearly all of the area of the Cradley one too)

I've used it for Metro journeys between New St and the Hawthorns. At £3.40 it's cheaper than a return between town and the ground, and means I can just stroll onto the tram rather than fight my way through the city centre. (only useful with a cheap advance from Euston as Chiltern price The Hawthorns the same as Birmingham).

 

[transportphoto]

Had my first outright refusal of a plusbus ticket today. First bus driver said that's a train ticket mate and just laughed at my explanation of what it was. I got off the bus and went to the office to complain and then returned to catch the following bus without issue. The driver had also overcharged the guy in front of me so I don't think he was exactly a star employee.

Having previously seen behind the scenes for FirstBus, it’s probably worth flagging this with the customer service team. They should be able to identify the driver (with some details such as time, route, location, etc) and then flag it to the local depot management as “Depot Open” for investigation (assuming the system hasn’t changed).

You’ll get nothing more than a bog standard off the shelf reply, but it will [should] at least filter down to local management… perhaps not so much the ticketing issue, but the behaviour/attitude points.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

Having previously seen behind the scenes for FirstBus, it’s probably worth flagging this with the customer service team. They should be able to identify the driver (with some details such as time, route, location, etc) and then flag it to the local depot management as “Depot Open” for investigation (assuming the system hasn’t changed).

You’ll get nothing more than a bog standard off the shelf reply, but it will [should] at least filter down to local management… perhaps not so much the ticketing issue, but the behaviour/attitude points.

Yep, tried 3 times to report on the app but the system was too busy to take it. I'll try again tomorrow

 

[smsm1]

I think there needs to be a national overhaul of bus ticketing to simplify it and make it easier to be automatically capped and charged the right amount. There are now several capping schemes that work differently, making it ever more complicated when traveling. Single tickets tend to be expensive, but annual reasonably cheap. Why can't I pay a set amount monthly or annually and be able to travel anywhere in the country? I think this would be a key thing if we as a country are to discourage car use.

There are many pain points with plusbus:
* Variability of coverage
* Long list of exceptions that you have to study for each area, and inconsistency
* Having to switch to local ticketing if staying for a few days rather than being able to continue to use plusbus at day a higher rate. This can get complicated especially if multiple operators in the area and no cross operator ticketing other than plusbus
* No barcode or smart card ticketing, I suspect this could solve some of the validity issues people have with drivers. It would also open up the option for people buying tickets online and not needing go to a station to get them first. I know it's in the world, but taking too long. Most buses can now read both smart cards and barcodes (Edinburgh's Lothian Buses being a notable exception regarding barcodes)
* Knowing if it's cheaper to buy plusbus or operator tickets - many operators don't provide any details of the cost of single tickets, especially if stages involved, day tickets more likely to be available.
* Drivers not knowing about plusbus schemes intermittently
* Having to know at the point of buying the train tickets whether you'll need the plusbus (granted can show the ticket to a guard or ticket office, but that's a pain and I once had a guard fail to issue the right ticket and the Ipswich ticket office has to issue a different one - Ipswich has an odd additional rail extension ticket that can get you to the town centre or hospital in addition to plusbus).

The people on this forum will persist with issues like this. The general public won't, one bad experience and they'll give up and not try it again. Is it any wonder why public transport use is so low in this country compared to people jumping in their metal boxes on wheels?

 

[ChrisC]

Had my first outright refusal of a plusbus ticket today. First bus driver said that's a train ticket mate and just laughed at my explanation of what it was. I got off the bus and went to the office to complain and then returned to catch the following bus without issue. The driver had also overcharged the guy in front of me so I don't think he was exactly a star employee.

The office staff didn't know what a plusbus ticket was either but at least they looked it up in the drivers ticket manual and gave me a photo copy of the relevant page for next time

I had exactly the same thing happen to me when trying to board a First Bus at Rochdale Bus Station using a Manchester Wayfarer ticket. The driver insisted that it was a rail ticket and would accept no explanation from me that it was valid. I went straight to the Travel Shop at the bus station where they confirmed, as I already knew, that it was valid but gave the excuse that the driver had probably not seen one before. I did contact First in Manchester and they did say over the phone that they would remind all drivers that they are valid. Whether this happened I don’t know. My main complaint was that although I had a perfectly valid ticket, I was treated in front of other passengers like someone who was trying to avoid paying.

 

[jon81uk]

I think there needs to be a national overhaul of bus ticketing to simplify it and make it easier to be automatically capped and charged the right amount.

There needs to be a national overhaul of buses full stop. Cities often have sensible bus timetables and ticketing, but in towns and rural areas it feels like county councils don't care.
I think it would be better to run more like TfL with the overarching body setting the schedule and fares and just appointing operators to run the service. Having the bus companies setting the fares doesn't seem to be working.

 

[Haywain]

in towns and rural areas it feels like county councils don't care.

It's not that they don't care but that they don't have the money. Town services in the evenings and at weekends and rural services are almost universally subsidised, and local authorities have suffered years of spending cuts leading to them having to abandon many bus services. And increasing costs of running such services will only makes matters worse.

 

[Russel]

Just had a look at the PlusBus website, it's a bit of a time warp, design wise.

But, they do look good value.

I'm looking at a trip to Edinburgh next month, the Lothian day ticket is £4.50 I believe, the PlusBus equivalent with railcard discount is £2.50.

 

[RT4038]

It's not that they don't care but that they don't have the money. Town services in the evenings and at weekends and rural services are almost universally subsidised, and local authorities have suffered years of spending cuts leading to them having to abandon many bus services. And increasing costs of running such services will only makes matters worse.

Quite. The County Councils have no statutory responsibility for public transport, only discretionary. Statutory responsibilities - particularly Education, Education Transport and Social care take precedence on the budgets. Some County councils (Oxfordshire, Northamptonshire, Cumbria for instance) have taken decisions not to subsidise (and therefore influence) mainstream public transport provision at all. Not necessarily because they don't want to, they have no money available.

To be fair to @jon81uk, some shire county councils probably don't care too much - most of the voters don't use and/or want to use public transport - their representatives reflect the views of this majority in the decisions taken.

 

[fandroid]

A trivia point. I read somewhere that Reading had the highest Plusbus use.
As an English concession pass holder I don't use Plusbus much, only for journeys out of England and for cities where they're valid on trams, such as Nottingham. I think they're a great concept, and it's disappointing to hear of such low use.

Germany has a similar system, with many full-fare long-distance train tickets automatically including a "City Ticket". If the main ticket is bought online for a smartphone ("Handyticket") they can be used at both ends of the journey.

 

[danm14]

A trivia point. I read somewhere that Reading had the highest Plusbus use.

I wonder if there's a correlation between use of PlusBus and proximity to London, where people are used to the idea of adding on local travel at their destination in the form of a Travelcard.

 

[Wolfie]

I've used it several times on trips home to Birmingham and the Black Country - again a generous allowance is in place for the area although care needs to be taken regarding Birmingham vs the Cradley Heath one which was designed for shuttling to Merry Hill but actually stretches across most of the Black Country. Despite that, it doesn't cover the Metro like the Birmingham one does (the Brum one also covers nearly all of the area of the Cradley one too)

I've used it for Metro journeys between New St and the Hawthorns. At £3.40 it's cheaper than a return between town and the ground, and means I can just stroll onto the tram rather than fight my way through the city centre. (only useful with a cheap advance from Euston as Chiltern price The Hawthorns the same as Birmingham).

Dave there was a time a while ago where Metro was saying the Plusbus wasn't valid despite the Plusbus website saying otherwise. Has that now been sorted? Your comments suggest that it has but confirmation would be useful. TY.

As an aside, why in God's name would anyone want to go to the hellhole that is the Hawthorns??? Particularly as heaven is only nine miles away...... lol

I had few "fun" incidents with Arriva in Telford. On one occasion a driver claimed that my "Wellington Plusbus" (issued to the train station l was travelling to) wasn't valid in Telford, despite Wellington being part of Telford - he claimed that it should have been issued as a Telford Plusbus. Another driver pulled the "this is a train ticket" routine - l had to point him to the Plusbus wording on the ticket and then the "Plusbus accepted" sticker on his cab door. Till roll tickets, when first issued, were another issue - firstly with drivers questioning what they actually were ("it doesn't look like a train ticket") and then trying to scan the Aztec code. Oh, and one driver l came across insisted on seeing an associated train ticket - thankfully l hadn't discarded it after finishing my train travel.

Edited to add: A problem that l am increasingly coming across is an inability to buy Plusbus online when buying a train ticket and thus losing the railcard discount. For example the LNWR website always used to offer the ability to add Plusbus tickets to any journey. That disappeared at the last "upgrade" (which left a vastly inferior site). Ticket Spilt also fails to offer this. Anyone got any advice?

 

[danm14]

But, they do look good value.

There are some amazing value ones, but there are also some abjectly terrible value ones, for example in Merseyside (Southport, Birkenhead, Liverpool and St Helens PlusBus areas), where in almost all circumstances one of Merseytravel's standard tickets will either be cheaper, or provide significant extra validity (and all but eliminate the risk of ticket refusal) for mere pennies more - unless you're a Railcard holder and aged 19 or over.

The most significant example in Merseyside being for Railcard holders aged 16, 17 or 18 - who can get a MyTicket (unlimited bus travel across all of Merseyside and Halton) for 55p less than a PlusBus - or if travelling at the weekend or after 9:30am can get either a One Area Saveaway (unlimited bus and rail travel in the same area as a PlusBus) for 30p less or an All Area Saveaway (unlimited bus, rail and ferry travel across all of Merseyside, plus use of the parts of the Merseyrail network outside Merseyside) for 15p more.

 

[island]

Edited to add: A problem that l am increasingly coming across is an inability to buy Plusbus online when buying a train ticket and thus losing the railcard discount. For example the LNWR website always used to offer the ability to add Plusbus tickets to any journey. That disappeared at the last "upgrade" (which left a vastly inferior site). Ticket Spilt also fails to offer this. Anyone got any advice?

Just ask at the booking office at either end or the train guard.

 

[Wolfie]

Just ask at the booking office at either end or the train guard.

I know that can be done, and l have done so, but the Railcard discount is only applied if the Plusbus is bought at the same time as the ticket. There will be an even bigger issue if most ticket offices are closed.

 

[Hadders]

I know that can be done, and l have done so, but the Railcard discount is only applied if the Plusbus is bought at the same time as the ticket.

I’ve got railcard discounts on them when I’ve purchased them separately. I don’t think there’s anything in the rules preventing it.

 

[Haywain]

the Railcard discount is only applied if the Plusbus is bought at the same time as the ticket.

That is not the case, almost all of the railcard discounted PlusBus tickets I've bought have been bought separately from the rail ticket, and usually with a different discount on the rail ticket as Priv isn't available on PlusBus.