PlusBus railcard discount times

[Leisurefirst]

In theory... say you travel by train at 08.30 before your railcard is valid and so buy a non-discounted ticket but you arrive after your railcard becomes valid at 09.45...
Is any PlusBus you buy at your destination eligible to receive a railcard discount because it's after 09.30 or not because your rail ticket was not discounted?

 

[Llandudno]

In theory... say you travel by train at 08.30 before your railcard is valid and so buy a non-discounted ticket but you arrive after your railcard becomes valid at 09.45...
Is any PlusBus you buy at your destination eligible to receive a railcard discount because it's after 09.30 or not because your rail ticket was not discounted?

Many bus drivers don’t have a clue what a PlusBus ticket is, let alone it’s validity!

 

[smsm1]

Many bus drivers don’t have a clue what a PlusBus ticket is, let alone it’s validity!

Just got in a bus in South Queensferry and told by the driver that he'd never seen a plus bus ticket before and that it was a train ticket. I've never had an acceptance issue with Lothian Buses before, there's always got to be a first time.

I think bus operators need to spend more time training their drivers on the more unusual tickets as it seems to be a common issue even with the operators own tickets. Having alternate names or way of saying thing for the tickets too would be useful too. Or even just knowing the whole bus network rather than claiming that another operator goes to the place asked for when it changed many months prior.

 

[Watershed]

In theory... say you travel by train at 08.30 before your railcard is valid and so buy a non-discounted ticket but you arrive after your railcard becomes valid at 09.45...
Is any PlusBus you buy at your destination eligible to receive a railcard discount because it's after 09.30 or not because your rail ticket was not discounted?

PlusBus tickets are not subject to Railcard time restrictions. If you have a Railcard that can be used to discount a PlusBus ticket, then any PlusBus ticket you buy will be valid at any time.

 

[Haywain]

PlusBus tickets are not subject to Railcard time restrictions. If you have a Railcard that can be used to discount a PlusBus ticket, then any PlusBus ticket you buy will be valid at any time.

This is incorrect. Railcard time restrictions DO apply to PlusBus tickets, although minimum fare restrictions only apply to the accompanying rail ticket. It may be questionable how the railcard time restrictions are enforced but that is not the same as them not existing.

 

[Watershed]

This is incorrect. Railcard time restrictions DO apply to PlusBus tickets, although minimum fare restrictions only apply to the accompanying rail ticket. It may be questionable how the railcard time restrictions are enforced but that is not the same as them not existing.

At what time would a Senior Railcard discounted PlusBus ticket, issued for a town/city within the Network Area, become valid?

I very much doubt that bus drivers will know about any of this and so frankly, it's completely academic. They're more likely to reject a PlusBus ticket on the basis that "that's a train ticket, mate" than anything else.

 

[Haywain]

At what time would a Senior Railcard discounted PlusBus ticket, issued for a town/city within the Network Area, become valid?

To quote the PlusBus website:

Senior Railcard holders get 1/3 off the adult price of PlusBus day tickets, upon presentation of their valid Senior Railcard, as follows:-

• outside of the South East of England at all times;
• in the South East after the Monday to Friday morning peak period* (excluding Bank Holidays) for a journey wholly within the South East region.

* times of off-peak services vary by route, but generally related to the availability of Off-Peak tickets.

 

[Watershed]

To quote the PlusBus website:

Yes. I'd read that too. But "morning peak period" is incredibly vague. So is "related to the availability of Off-Peak tickets". Far too vague for it to constitute any sort of enforceable restriction legally or in practice.

 

[Haywain]

Yes. I'd read that too. But "morning peak period" is incredibly vague. So is "related to the availability of Off-Peak tickets". Far too vague for it to constitute any sort of enforceable restriction legally or in practice.

Still not the same as your comment that they are not subject to restrictions:

PlusBus tickets are not subject to Railcard time restrictions.

 

[Watershed]

Still not the same as your comment that they are not subject to restrictions:

If the restriction is unenforceable and unenforced, I don't think there's any need to complicate things by starting to talk about it.

 

[Hadders]

I once purchased a Gold Card discounted PlusBus ticket at my local station, at around 07:30 and the ticket clerk told me it wasn’t valid until 09:30 and stamped the ticket ‘restrictions advised’.

 

[Merseysider]

I’ve no idea how current (from 2018) this document is, but it seems to answer your question.

Eg:

16-25 Railcard, 26-30 Railcard & HM Forces Railcard holders get holders get 1/3 off the adult price of PlusBus day tickets, upon presentation of their valid 16-25 or 26-30 Railcard or HM Forces Railcard, at all times.
The £12 minimum fare restriction does not apply to PlusBus day ticket purchases.

Personally, I stopped bothering with PlusBus about 5 years ago. More hassle than it was worth to save a quid or two, with First and Stagecoach’s idiotic drivers constantly arguing about it not being valid, particularly in Manchester, even when there was a “PlusBus accepted” sticker on the side of the bloody bus.

 

[bakerstreet]

These are the latest restrictions I can see. From 2017.

https://www.plusbus.info/sites/default/files/pdfs/Railcard%20discount%20restrictions%20for%20PLUSBUS_0.pdf

 

[185143]

I’ve no idea how current (from 2018) this document is, but it seems to answer your question.

Eg:


Personally, I stopped bothering with PlusBus about 5 years ago. More hassle than it was worth to save a quid or two, with First and Stagecoach’s idiotic drivers constantly arguing about it not being valid, particularly in Manchester, even when there was a “PlusBus accepted” sticker on the side of the bloody bus.

I remember being told on a bus in Bury "that's a train ticket" when I was using a GM Wayfarer ticket once. Asked how I'd managed to get to Bury then given the only rail service is the East Lancs Railway.

I went and sat down very shortly after, having had the ticket accepted.

 

[rg177]

Despite explaining to one ticket office clerk at Newcastle that I wasn't arriving in Sheffield until after 10am, he insisted upon writing NOT VALID UNTIL 10AM across my 16-25 discounted PlusBus in black marker a couple of years ago.

Suffice to say that caused more issues than it was supposedly intended to prevent.

Also once had a Supertram conductor play the "it says bus on it" card once. He only relented when it was clear I wasn't going back down over it.

 

[ChrisC]

I remember being told on a bus in Bury "that's a train ticket" when I was using a GM Wayfarer ticket once. Asked how I'd managed to get to Bury then given the only rail service is the East Lancs Railway.

I went and sat down very shortly after, having had the ticket accepted.

I had exactly the same a few years ago with a First Bus driver in Rochdale who absolutely refused to accept a GM Wayfarer ticket printed on rail ticket stock. I had to get off and catch the next bus although I did go into the nearby travel centre and reported the incident.
In Sheffield I have found Stagecoach drivers reasonably ok with Plusbus but some First drivers have been a bit grumpy regarding accepting one.

 

[_toommm_]

I had exactly the same a few years ago with a First Bus driver in Rochdale who absolutely refused to accept a GM Wayfarer ticket printed on rail ticket stock. I had to get off and catch the next bus although I did go into the nearby travel centre and reported the incident.
In Sheffield I have found Stagecoach drivers reasonably ok with Plusbus but some First drivers have been a bit grumpy regarding accepting one.

First in South Yorkshire are really bad, to say they’re the main operator in South Yorkshire. I’ve had far too many debates, either because the price is too cheap, or it’s only valid for a single, or it says PlusBus Doncaster and I’m in Rotherham. The excuses could go on.

 

[mangyiscute]

I've often had issues with more obscure bus&train tickets - for example the Explore Cardiff & Valleys ticket is also accepted on Stagecoach South Wales buses, but it's safe to say the driver was unaware of this. I usually have the website ready to show them that it is fine, and most bus drivers seem pretty lenient to me too - I think their attitude is that if you know about this ticket then you're probably correct about its validity

 

[Amos]

Just got in a bus in South Queensferry and told by the driver that he'd never seen a plus bus ticket before and that it was a train ticket. I've never had an acceptance issue with Lothian Buses before, there's always got to be a first time.

I found the tram more problematic than the bus.

 

[185143]

I've often had issues with more obscure bus&train tickets - for example the Explore Cardiff & Valleys ticket is also accepted on Stagecoach South Wales buses, but it's safe to say the driver was unaware of this. I usually have the website ready to show them that it is fine, and most bus drivers seem pretty lenient to me too - I think their attitude is that if you know about this ticket then you're probably correct about its validity

Had a good conversation with an Arriva driver in Chester using a North+Mid Wales rover. No arguments over it being valid on the bus, but instead about where you can use the ticket as it looked good value, plus he had a family member on the Cambrian line somewhere.

Had a Stagecoach driver on a route they'd just taken over from Arriva arguing against it, despite the route being specifically listed on the ATW website. Showed him the site, he asked what site I was looking at, to which he said "We don't take Arriva tickets." Resisted the temptation to say "Neither do Virgin" in response.

 

[Capvermell]

Had a good conversation with an Arriva driver in Chester using a North+Mid Wales rover. No arguments over it being valid on the bus, but instead about where you can use the ticket as it looked good value, plus he had a family member on the Cambrian line somewhere.

Had a Stagecoach driver on a route they'd just taken over from Arriva arguing against it, despite the route being specifically listed on the ATW website. Showed him the site, he asked what site I was looking at, to which he said "We don't take Arriva tickets." Resisted the temptation to say "Neither do Virgin" in response.

Bus drivers I have encountered in Brighton seemed used to Plusbus and did not query it at all (they get an awful lot of regular travellers from London and elsewhere there) but in Portsmouth some drivers commented that they hardly ever saw them but again accepted it after looking hard at the ticket.

But when I tried to buy a Plusbus ticket add on in Bournemouth with a Network card when I was staying four days the guy at the Bournemouth rail ticket office said he would only sell one to me one to add to my rail ticket on the outbound journey day (fixed by the ticket date as it was an Off Peak Return) or on the return date (which he admitted was actually flexible up to 30 days because it was an Off Peak Return) but not on any intermediate days and he also absolutely refused to sell me one starting before 9.30am on the day I wanted it for so I bought a More Bus Zone A ticket instead.

So the time restrictions are enforced in my experience, especially by manned rail ticket office staff. I'm not clear what happens with the TVMs if you try to buy Plusbus for a journey starting before 9.30am and if they refuse to issue one entirely for a ticket bought before the 9.30am cutoff.

 

[Capvermell]

Had a Stagecoach driver on a route they'd just taken over from Arriva arguing against it, despite the route being specifically listed on the ATW website. Showed him the site, he asked what site I was looking at, to which he said "We don't take Arriva tickets." Resisted the temptation to say "Neither do Virgin" in response.

When travelling on Metrobus routes in the Dorking and Horsham areas the automated bus announcement system tells you when you reach a stop that is the last stop withing the designated Plusbus area (i.e. that stop is the Boundary stop).

Plusbus areas for both Dorking and Horsham are absolutely pitiful and only stretch about two miles from either station so neither covers my home at Capel 7 miles from each station on the same 93 bus route. By contrast Plusbus tickets for Weymouth cover the whole of the bus route from Weymouth station to the bottom of the Isle of Portland that is about a 15 mile journey. So some Plusbus schemes are far more generous than others..........

The whole Plusbus system seems extremely neglected and Cinderella like in nature, especially the fact that you can't buy a Plusbus extension for your valid rail ticket on the actual bus itself, even though you are quite likely to want to do so if you decide to take a bus on the spur of the moment. I suppose if you use a tap on tapoff railcard like Key Go (with Southern/GoVia) you might possibly be able to just hop on a bus on the spur of the moment and be charged automatically for doing so but I'm not absolutely sure that is the case.

 

[smsm1]

But when I tried to buy a Plusbus ticket add on in Bournemouth with a Network card when I was staying four days the guy at the Bournemouth rail ticket office said he would only sell one to me one to add to my rail ticket on the outbound journey day (fixed by the ticket date as it was an Off Peak Return) or on the return date (which he admitted was actually flexible up to 30 days because it was an Off Peak Return) but not on any intermediate days and he also absolutely refused to sell me one starting before 9.30am on the day I wanted it for so I bought a More Bus Zone A ticket instead.

PlusBus is only valid on the days that you also have a rail journey, so they were correct to not allow on the intermediate days. It's one of the pain points as you then have to move on to the local operator tickets for the days you don't travel by train. There really needs to be a simplification of rail and bus pricing.

 

[Haywain]

I'm not clear what happens with the TVMs if you try to buy Plusbus for a journey starting before 9.30am and if they refuse to issue one entirely for a ticket bought before the 9.30am cutoff.

You can't (or shouldn't be able to) buy a PlusBus from a TVM without a rail ticket, so the price of the rail ticket will be the governing factor.

 

[Capvermell]

You can't (or shouldn't be able to) buy a PlusBus from a TVM without a rail ticket, so the price of the rail ticket will be the governing factor.

So Plusbus can add on to an Anytime fare at the non Network Card discounted price.

Anytime return tickets from Ockley to Weymouth are less than 50% more than the cheapest Off Peak Return with a Network Card whereas to London a peak return on a weekday costs 200% more than an Super Off Peak Day return with a Network Railcard and no Plusbus add on available in London either as far as I know......

PlusBus is only valid on the days that you also have a rail journey, so they were correct to not allow on the intermediate days. It's one of the pain points as you then have to move on to the local operator tickets for the days you don't travel by train. There really needs to be a simplification of rail and bus pricing.

The biggest area where simplification is needed is how far is the distance from the destination station covered by Plusbus. So only a measly 2.5 miles from Dorking Station to North Holmwood and a similar distance from Horsham to Warnham but nearly 15 miles from Weymouth station to the bottom of the Isle of Portland.

Also one day non railcard bus passes are a lot more expensive than Network Card discounted Plysbus and single bus fares in most towns are a total and utter disgrace with a single journey of 3 miles costing around £3 while Chelmsford to Maldon that I took in June was something like £7 single or £10 return for 10 miles one way and again not covered by Plusbus.

 

[Haywain]

So Plusbus can add on to an Anytime fare at the non Network Card discounted price.

Correct.

no Plusbus add on available in London either as far as I know..

No, London has Travelcards instead

one day non railcard bus passes are a lot more expensive than Network Card discounted Plysbus

That’s how discounts of 34% work.

 

[Capvermell]

That’s how discounts of 34% work.

I suppose what I'm getting at is that in Poole/Bournemouth the Zonal bus passes with MoreBuses (who have now taken over all their rival bus companies following recent commercial failures) aren't suddenly 33% cheaper after 9.30am or 10am but but still look like pretty good value for someone travelling a fair bit in Zone A compared to the majority of the single bus fares. However cross the Sandbanks ferry and go one stop and you now need a Zones ABC bus pass (there being no Zone B between Zones A and C in the south of the area) at £9.50 a day instead of £4.30 a day all over Poole and Bournemouth. Zone A is the same zone as Plusbus covers at a further 33% discount Off Peak. While Zones ABC have no equivalent under the Plusbus scheme yet are still within the hinterland of local bus journeys that a rail traveler might need to make to reach their final destination. from Bournemouth or Poole rail stations.

That is really the point as on Sunday when Southern fails to provide any service from Dorking to Horsham all day my only option is now taking the 93 bus to Dorking at £7.90 return yet the Super Off Peak return rail fares from Ockley to Victoria are the same as the Off Peak return from Dorking to Victoria although a Network Card discounted Travelcard from Ockley to Zones 1 to 6 is nearly 40% more from Ockley than from Dorking.

My point is that Plusbus surely should cover bus journeys from rural areas in to the nearest main town with a rail station but under the majority of Plusbus schemes it doesn't but under some Plusbus schemes it does..............

 

[paul1609]

Bus drivers I have encountered in Brighton seemed used to Plusbus and did not query it at all (they get an awful lot of regular travellers from London and elsewhere there) but in Portsmouth some drivers commented that they hardly ever saw them but again accepted it after looking hard at the ticket.

But when I tried to buy a Plusbus ticket add on in Bournemouth with a Network card when I was staying four days the guy at the Bournemouth rail ticket office said he would only sell one to me one to add to my rail ticket on the outbound journey day (fixed by the ticket date as it was an Off Peak Return) or on the return date (which he admitted was actually flexible up to 30 days because it was an Off Peak Return) but not on any intermediate days and he also absolutely refused to sell me one starting before 9.30am on the day I wanted it for so I bought a More Bus Zone A ticket instead.

So the time restrictions are enforced in my experience, especially by manned rail ticket office staff. I'm not clear what happens with the TVMs if you try to buy Plusbus for a journey starting before 9.30am and if they refuse to issue one entirely for a ticket bought before the 9.30am cutoff.

Brighton has had integrated rail/ bus ticketing for years I believe that plusbus was actually based on the Brighton model but with smaller areas in many cases. Plusbus capping works well on the key with the area coinciding with the bus zones.
Portsmouth bus drivers wont see many plusbus tickets for the simple reason that the majority of the cities destinations are directly accesible by rail or other ticketing arrangements such as hoverbus. Even stuff like the continental ferry port single bus journeys are cheaper than plus bus. The cruise liners arrange their own bus services.
Neighbouring Fareham is different as a Fareham Plusbus is almost a standard ticket on the Eclipse busway to Gosport.

 

[Capvermell]

Portsmouth bus drivers wont see many plusbus tickets for the simple reason that the majority of the cities destinations are directly accesible by rail or other ticketing arrangements such as hoverbus. Even stuff like the continental ferry port single bus journeys are cheaper than plus bus. The cruise liners arrange their own bus services. Neighbouring Fareham is different as a Fareham Plusbus is almost a standard ticket on the Eclipse busway to Gosport.

For a couple of years from 2018 to 2020 I was making quite regular trips to the Isle of Wight and discovered that by far the cheapest way to get there from my home was on a Network card discounted ticket from either Ockley or Horsham (Horsham, which is 7 miles nearer to Portsmouth Harbour is for some odd reason more expensive to buy a rail ticket from than Ockley, but the rail connections back in the evening to Ockley are much worse) to Ryde and then preload a 30 day multi single day pack of journeys on to a Southern Vectis key card for the bus as that worked out much cheaper than a day return bus fare as I had to get 2 buses each way to reach my destination and change at Newport bus station. Currently it is just over £4 a day on a 30 Separate Days key Southern Vectis pack but £10 a day for Southern Vectis's one day Rover single day bus pass ticket.

As I didn't then otherwise travel much by rail I wasn't really even aware of Plusbus back then but now I am I have consulted the Plusbus website at www.plusbus.info and I can see that there are no Plusbus schemes in operation at all anywhere on the Isle of Wight despite the fact that you can buy a through rail ticket to Ryde Hoverport on the Hoverspeed hovercraft or to Ryde Pierhead on the Wightlink Fastcat and the Ryde Hoverport ticket also includes travel on the Hoverbus from Portsmouth & Southsea station (something loads of infrequent travellers who I saw get off the train at Portsmouth and Southsea and then pay cash fares to the Hoverbus driver were quite clearly unaware of as they presumably just bought their rail ticket to Portsmouth & Southsea and paid separately for the Hoverbus and also the hovercraft). You can also buy through rail ticketed journeys to West Cowes via the Redjet fastcat ferry from Southampton and to East Cowes on the slow Southampton car ferry. You can also buy through rail ticketed journeys to Yarmouth via Lymington Pier rail station on that slow car ferry.

So in view of the fact that the Isle of Wight has a large number of through ticketed rail station destinations (in Ryde, Cowes, Yarmouth and all the stations on the Island line down to Shanklin) can anyone explain to me why there are no Plusbus schemes at all covering these through rail ticketing destinations on the Isle of Wight, albeit that some of the rail ticketing arrangements are somewhat historic from British Rail days given that there are no longer any rail services from Yarmouth or East Cowes or West Cowes to Newport and that you can only travel from Cowes to Shanklin on the Island Line by rail.

Re Portsmouth Plusbus it only costs £2 a day with a Network card so I would say it is quite cheap (in relation to the £3 single journey bus cash fares) but the problem is that bus frequencies drop to as low as only every 20 minutes in the evening or on Sunday on the main No.1 bus route and so it is often as quick or quicker and more consistently reliable to walk to many destinations as to pay the £2 for Plusbus, especially if you are doing a journey that involves 2 buses, one of which (the No.25) is very infrequent indeed (less than hourly in the late afternoon and early evening).

 

[Llandudno]

For a couple of years from 2018 to 2020 I was making quite regular trips to the Isle of Wight and discovered that by far the cheapest way to get there from my home was on a Network card discounted ticket from either Ockley or Horsham (Horsham, which is 7 miles nearer to Portsmouth Harbour is for some odd reason more expensive to buy a rail ticket from than Ockley, but the rail connections back in the evening to Ockley are much worse) to Ryde and then preload a 30 day multi single day pack of journeys on to a Southern Vectis key card for the bus as that worked out much cheaper than a day return bus fare as I had to get 2 buses each way to reach my destination and change at Newport bus station. Currently it is just over £4 a day on a 30 Separate Days key Southern Vectis pack but £10 a day for Southern Vectis's one day Rover single day bus pass ticket.

As I didn't then otherwise travel much by rail I wasn't really even aware of Plusbus back then but now I am I have consulted the Plusbus website at www.plusbus.info and I can see that there are no Plusbus schemes in operation at all anywhere on the Isle of Wight despite the fact that you can buy a through rail ticket to Ryde Hoverport on the Hoverspeed hovercraft or to Ryde Pierhead on the Wightlink Fastcat and the Ryde Hoverport ticket also includes travel on the Hoverbus from Portsmouth & Southsea station (something loads of infrequent travellers who I saw get off the train at Portsmouth and Southsea and then pay cash fares to the Hoverbus driver were quite clearly unaware of as they presumably just bought their rail ticket to Portsmouth & Southsea and paid separately for the Hoverbus and also the hovercraft). You can also buy through rail ticketed journeys to West Cowes via the Redjet fastcat ferry from Southampton and to East Cowes on the slow Southampton car ferry. You can also buy through rail ticketed journeys to Yarmouth via Lymington Pier rail station on that slow car ferry.

So in view of the fact that the Isle of Wight has a large number of through ticketed rail station destinations (in Ryde, Cowes, Yarmouth and all the stations on the Island line down to Shanklin) can anyone explain to me why there are no Plusbus schemes at all covering these through rail ticketing destinations on the Isle of Wight, albeit that some of the rail ticketing arrangements are somewhat historic from British Rail days given that there are no longer any rail services from Yarmouth or East Cowes or West Cowes to Newport and that you can only travel from Cowes to Shanklin on the Island Line by rail.

Re Portsmouth Plusbus it only costs £2 a day with a Network card so I would say it is quite cheap (in relation to the £3 single journey bus cash fares) but the problem is that bus frequencies drop to as low as only every 20 minutes in the evening or on Sunday on the main No.1 bus route and so it is often as quick or quicker and more consistently reliable to walk to many destinations as to pay the £2 for Plusbus, especially if you are doing a journey that involves 2 buses, one of which (the No.25) is very infrequent indeed (less than hourly in the late afternoon and early evening).

Wow, your complaining about buses only running every 20 minutes in the evening and on Sundays…!