Police called as commuter sits in empty first class zone on packed rush-hour train

[AM9]

First class needs to be swept away with perhaps the exception of longer inter-city routes. It is a relic of a bygone age.

Northern are in possession of a 158 ex Scotrail that still has a first class. You need to wipe your feet when you come out of it. Paying extra to sit in that, I'd want them to pay me.

I presume you think that the staff deliberately make it dirty in their spare time. If you don't like it there's always standard class which is cheaper.

 

[mrcheek]

If you're concerned that someone near you might have paid less than you, I recommend never travelling by train or plane, because you're almost certainly in the company of people who've paid more than you, less than you, or nothing and have a valid ticket.

I dont mind if people have paid less, or more, as long as they have paid the correct amount for the service. If they havent, they are committing a criminal offence. I dont like travelling alongside criminals

 

[AM9]

I dont mind if people have paid less, or more, as long as they have paid the correct amount for the service. If they havent, they are committing a criminal offence. I dont like travelling alongside criminals

You probably do every time you travel but don't know it, - and there's nothing that you can do about it anyway.

 

[Journeyman]

You probably do every time you travel but don't know it, - and there's nothing that you can do about it anyway.

I think the point being made there is that, if found, said criminals should be appropriately dealt with. That's certainly my view. I'm happy to delegate that to the people specifically trained and authorised to do the job.

 

[mrcheek]

First class needs to be swept away with perhaps the exception of longer inter-city routes. It is a relic of a bygone age.

Northern are in possession of a 158 ex Scotrail that still has a first class. You need to wipe your feet when you come out of it. Paying extra to sit in that, I'd want them to pay me.

"I once travelled in a First Class section which was dirty, so they should abolish all First Class"

Ive been on entire trains that were dirty, presumably got back to the depot late one day, or had to be dragged out early as a replacement, so didnt get cleaned properly.
So why dont we get rid of all trains?

 

[sprunt]

I presume you think that the staff deliberately make it dirty in their spare time. If you don't like it there's always standard class which is cheaper.

Why on earth do you presume that? It was pretty clear to me that the implication was that the TOC don't bother to keep the train clean, so charging for part of it as a premium service is unreasonable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why on earth do you presume that? It was pretty clear to me that the implication was that the TOC don't bother to keep the train clean, so charging for part of it as a premium service is unreasonable.

I've not noticed 1st to be dirtier than Standard on any TOC. The cleanliness is usually about the same, and simply relates to (a) how often the train is cleaned, and (b) how comprehensive the schedule of cleaning is - one thing I find particularly noticeable is which TOCs (and for that matter hotel chains) are too lazy to run a cloth or brush over the air vents and which aren't.

 

[farleigh]

I dont mind if people have paid less, or more, as long as they have paid the correct amount for the service. If they havent, they are committing a criminal offence. I dont like travelling alongside criminals

That is a very interesting viewpoint. Do you think people should be DBS checked before they are allowed to sit in your coach?

 

[Kite159]

First class needs to be swept away with perhaps the exception of longer inter-city routes. It is a relic of a bygone age.

Northern are in possession of a 158 ex Scotrail that still has a first class. You need to wipe your feet when you come out of it. Paying extra to sit in that, I'd want them to pay me.

The one which used to be at SWT with a small area of 2+1 seating where Scotrail didn't use for services with first class on for the last couple years when their other 158s with had pointless first class turned into standard class.

I presume it will be changed to the more standard 2+2 throughout with the new seats when it goes in for refurbishment.

-------

As for this gentleman, it seems he knew what he was doing (sitting in first class on a busy service where it would be likely the guard wouldn't get around to check tickets) and is bitter because he got caught out.

Maybe if his regular service was a pair of 170s he would aim for the unit where the guard wasn't.

 

[mrcheek]

That is a very interesting viewpoint. Do you think people should be DBS checked before they are allowed to sit in your coach?

no need to be facetious. I think everyone knew what I meant

 

[kristiang85]

I had an interesting one on SWR the other day where I was sat in coach 11 of a 12-coach train from Waterloo with LOADS of space (it was lovely and quiet and relaxed), whereupon the guard announced that due to "severe overcrowding" on the train he was declassifying first class and he hoped that some could use the few seats available in there. The coach behind (12) was virtually empty too.

I felt rather smug thinking of the now overcrowded first class and I was in my wonderful standard situation at the back.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I had an interesting one on SWR the other day where I was sat in coach 11 of a 12-coach train from Waterloo with LOADS of space (it was lovely and quiet and relaxed), whereupon the guard announced that due to "severe overcrowding" on the train he was declassifying first class and he hoped that some could use the few seats available in there. The coach behind (12) was virtually empty too.

I felt rather smug thinking of the now overcrowded first class and I was in my wonderful standard situation at the back.

That happens on LNR as well - some people are too lazy to walk to the front. I don't get why guards do it in that case, all LNR stock is gangwayed so the guard could just announce where the seats were.

I've had that announced when I've had a bay of 6 to myself in the front coach. This happens on quite a few peak time Euston trains, particularly in school holidays where the number of commuters is down and the leisure travellers don't know where the seats are to be found.

 

[43096]

That is a very interesting viewpoint. Do you think people should be DBS checked before they are allowed to sit in your coach?

DBS?

DB Schenker?

 

[Bikeman78]

GWR have charged people the First Class fare for standing in the First Class vestibule.

Well that is different. On HSTs, people in the vestibules tend to stand on the pressure pads which means the internal sliding door opens and closes repeatedly which is infuriating. I can completely understand why people in first class would get annoyed by this and why the TOCs would wish to prevent it. I am confident that no one has been charged for a first class ticket for using a toilet that happens to be next to first class.

 

[Clayton]

I dont mind if people have paid less, or more, as long as they have paid the correct amount for the service. If they havent, they are committing a criminal offence. I dont like travelling alongside criminals

Could you be any more pompous? You could say that what’s criminal is the high price of rail travel

 

[farleigh]

no need to be facetious. I think everyone knew what I meant

Fair enough - I did not mean to offend.

I do think it was a ridiculous statement though as :

i) the person sitting in first class without a ticket would not be a criminal (unless they already had a record)
ii) I would like to think we could let real 'criminals' move on with their lives without being stigmatised forever.

 

[infobleep]

Declassified first isn't first class so I'm not sure how that's relevant?

It's relevant because the quality of seating is just as good and why sitting or stand somewhere illegally when you can do the same legally with just as much relative comfort.

 

[mrcheek]

Fair enough - I did not mean to offend.

I do think it was a ridiculous statement though as :

i) the person sitting in first class without a ticket would not be a criminal (unless they already had a record)
ii) I would like to think we could let real 'criminals' move on with their lives without being stigmatised forever.

i) is actually a fascinating debating point. Legally speaking, you are not officially a criminal until you have been convicted. But if you are known to have committed an offence, most people would accept that you are a criminal the moment you commit the crime. I bet theres been a few libel cases on this point, making lots of money for lawyers
ii) well yes. but this guy literally committed the crime on that very day

 

[mrcheek]

Could you be any more pompous? You could say that what’s criminal is the high price of rail travel

Then perhaps you should call the police and report the rail companies. Except you wont. Because it is not criminal, they set the fares in line with what is legally allowed. Travelling by rail without a correct ticket is an actual criminal offence.

 

[frodshamfella]

I have to say Cross Country are pretty awful to travel on in standard , I've used them from Birmingham to Oxford and Exeter and it's a right crush in standard from my experience.

 

[Clayton]

I have to say Cross Country are pretty awful to travel on in standard , I've used them from Birmingham to Oxford and Exeter and it's a right crush in standard from my experience.

Yes the trains are just too short and also feel cramped, is it because of the way they are configured? Always a relief to get on to the big Virgin trains if going north

 

[Journeyman]

I have to say Cross Country are pretty awful to travel on in standard , I've used them from Birmingham to Oxford and Exeter and it's a right crush in standard from my experience.

If I'm undertaking a long journey, I'll only contemplate using XC if I can get a good deal in First Class. Otherwise, I'll use a different TOC and change.