Politicans talk about North Wales rail services

Status
Not open for further replies.

aformeruser

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
30,636
Daily Post said:
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has expressed exasperation over the state of the rail service in North Wales.

Mr Corbyn made his first visit to the North since becoming Labour leader as he addressed delegates at the Welsh Labour Party conference in Llandudno .

Speaking to the Daily Post after his speech at Venue Cymru the train enthusiast called for the region’s transport links to be upgraded and for the route to be electrified.

When asked how he found the Arriva Trains Service the Labour leader laughed, pulled a face and said “oh Arriva trains ... some are ok”.

Mr Corbyn said he had been on the North Wales services many times and said: “Well, it’s ok, but it could always be a bit quicker.

“It needs to be a bit faster, sped up, I would like to see it electrified.

“I think that would make a lot of sense, because it would help improve investment in businesses and jobs in the area.

“Clearly there’s been an industrial transition in North Wales and all the evidence across the UK is if you put in good quality rail services, obviously you can carry freight, but it also does improve the attractiveness of a place and the jobs that go with it.”

Metro rail plan for North Wales revealed

A bid outlining the need to upgrade the Crewe to Holyhead line is in the process of being submitted to the Department for Transport (DfT) for funding.

Mr Corbyn backed the efforts saying: “From London to Llandudno it’s very good to get to Crewe, after that like everywhere else in Britain it slows up.

“I am pleased with what they have done with the Valley lines, the North Wales line certainly needs improving, it needs better services.”

Mr Corbyn also said he was no longer actively pursuing his suggestion to create women-only carriages on trains - to help them avoid abuse and harassment.

He said even if he had pushed ahead with the plans they you couldn’t do it in North Wales anyway as many services simply don’t have enough carriages.

Mr Corbyn said: “It was a suggestion, it does happen in some parts of the world.

“It isn’t something a lot of people have bought into so ... I am not particularly pursuing the question of safety of women on trains.”

The Labour leader made the comments shortly before First Minister Carwyn Jones announced his vision to bring a Metro-style system to North Wales in the next decade.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/jeremy-corbyn-north-wales-trains-10922663

Does anyone know more about this proposed Metro system for North Wales? I can see one working for Cardiff but I'm not sure how one might work in North Wales.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

absolutelymilk

Established Member
Joined
18 Jul 2015
Messages
1,159

The Ham

Established Member
Joined
6 Jul 2012
Messages
8,026
While 221's are still needed for use by ICWC then there should be a push to release them from under the wires working and to use them for a more frequent service along the North Wales line. Even if it formed a shuttle service from Holyhead to Manchester via the airport (linking twice with ICWC services so as to maximise short term growth whilst also linking twice with HS2 for longer term growth).
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
65,600
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Spin, spin and more spin.

With many interurban services subsidised and under the control of the WAG, Wales could implement a genuine Verbundtarif and a fully integrated network. But I bet it won't happen - the chance was missed with Trawscymru which could have been properly integrated with the railway system but wasn't.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
15,512
Location
Mold, Clwyd
If you click the link in the article you can read about it.
Metro rail plan for North Wales revealed

It is a plan of the Labour First Minister if he is still in power after May.

Trams? Monorails? What's he on about?
Time to go back to basics.
I'm on an overcrowded 2-car 150 working Cardiff-Holyhead.
That follows another overcrowded 2-car 150 working Carmarthen-Manchester.
Commuter trains on 250-mile workings.
They should fix the current service first and stop fantasising.
 

aformeruser

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
30,636
Trams? Monorails? What's he on about?
Time to go back to basics.
I'm on an overcrowded 2-car 150 working Cardiff-Holyhead.
That follows another overcrowded 2-car 150 working Carmarthen-Manchester.
Commuter trains on 250-mile workings.
They should fix the current service first and stop fantasising.

I agree 150s shouldn't be on services that long. However, at least the ATW ones have 2+2 seating and tables. When they were first introduced they appeared on Holyhead-Scarborough services with 3+2 seating.
 

Arglwydd Golau

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2011
Messages
1,303
I agree 150s shouldn't be on services that long. However, at least the ATW ones have 2+2 seating and tables. When they were first introduced they appeared on Holyhead-Scarborough services with 3+2 seating.

I suppose, then, us Gogs should be grateful!
 

Philip

Established Member
Joined
27 May 2007
Messages
2,124
Location
Manchester
I agree 150s shouldn't be on services that long. However, at least the ATW ones have 2+2 seating and tables. When they were first introduced they appeared on Holyhead-Scarborough services with 3+2 seating.

150s are very solid units, as are 156s. I can't understand the general dislike for multiple unit Sprinters - generally reliable and in the case of a 156 a comfy, long distance interior. A 2-car 150 on a route such as this is inadequate in terms of capacity, but could do a lot worse than a pair of 150s forming a 4-coach train. I'm not sure what the situation is like now but not that many years ago it was almost an achievement for a 175 to get through a full days diagram without failing at some point.
 
Last edited:

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
12,921
Location
Caerphilly
150s are very solid units, as are 156s. I can't understand the general dislike for multiple unit Sprinters - generally reliable and in the case of a 156 a comfy, long distance interior. A 2-car 150 on a route such as this is inadequate in terms of capacity, but could do a lot worse than a pair of 150s forming a 4-coach train. I'm not sure what the situation is like now but not that many years ago it was almost an achievement for a 175 to get through a full days diagram without failing at some point.

175 reliability is much improved now after 5 or 6 years teething troubles.
 

Philip

Established Member
Joined
27 May 2007
Messages
2,124
Location
Manchester
175 reliability is much improved now after 5 or 6 years teething troubles.

A bit more than 5 or 6 years, more like 10! I can remember a lot of failures around 2007-08-09, a lot seemed to revolve around either door faults or the hydro-dynamic brake which am I right is still isolated on all of them? If they're better now fair enough but the teething problems lasted a lot longer than they should have done.

DMUs running at 100mph should not be relying solely on disc brakes.
 
Last edited:

Parallel

Established Member
Joined
9 Dec 2013
Messages
3,105
A bit more than 5 or 6 years, more like 10! I can remember a lot of failures around 2007-08-09, a lot seemed to revolve around either door faults or the hydro-dynamic brake which am I right is still isolated on all of them? If they're better now fair enough but the teething problems lasted a lot longer than they should have done.

DMUs running at 100mph should not be relying solely on disc brakes.

Has similar happened with the 180s?

--

Not sure a 'North Wales' metro would work, as there's not really one central town/city with a large enough catchment area IMO. Maybe an extra service between Llandudno Junction and Chester/ (or Shrewsbury once the re-doubling is complete) calling at all stations between would be good but it's not going to happen until Arriva obtains more stock.
 

M7R

Member
Joined
15 Sep 2010
Messages
206
DMUs running at 100mph should not be relying solely on disc brakes.

Why not? The foundation brake be it disk or tread is a known quantity... What do you think happens on all trains that have regen braking if it goes belly up? Or on vehicles like hybrids?? If the regen braking fails then the foundation brake is brought back in automatically to stop the vehicle.

For cars there are a few types of regen, the basic forms being one which regens when you lift off the throttle and coast (not that useful as you spend more time on the throttle unless coasting in gear down hill), and then the far more complicated ones where depending on brake demand and grip levels etc etc etc the braking is a mix of pure regen, regen plus foundation brakes, or just foundation brakes, and the blend from one situation to another has to be seamless. However when the ecu which controls it all stops the regen for one reason or another the foundation brake has to be there to automatically step in, it's the fail safe, like on the train air brakes, lose air pressure and the brakes come on.
 

Envoy

Established Member
Joined
29 Aug 2014
Messages
1,684
Surely, the dire situation that we now find ourselves in - with a lack of rolling stock, 150's having to be used long distance trains, Pacers having to keep going - is all due to a lack of investment during the Blair/Brown years in power?

The main positive things that have been done in Wales under Welsh Labour are re-opening the Ebbw Vale & Vale of Glamorgan Coast Lines plus the re-doubling of Cockett to Llanelli & Chester to Wrexham.
 

aformeruser

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
30,636
Surely, the dire situation that we now find ourselves in - with a lack of rolling stock, 150's having to be used long distance trains, Pacers having to keep going - is all due to a lack of investment during the Blair/Brown years in power?

Are you being serious? The lack of investment happened under John Major when rolling stock builders in Britain were put out of business due to no work. In Blair's 1st term there were probably more new carriages delivered than there were under 2 terms of Thatcher in the 1980s.

Labour did make a major mis-judgement in the early 00s about passenger growth but they admitted their mistake and found ways of delivering more stock for franchises which needed more, although some of the plans got delayed by a change of government and a lengthy spending review.

From what I understand Labour's plan in the late 00s was for Pacers to start being replaced in CP4 and Sprinters in CP5. However, someone post-2010 made a mess of franchise re-letting which provided a convenient excuse to not look at DMU replacement.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
15,512
Location
Mold, Clwyd
The SRA re-letting of franchises around 2003 was at a very low point in the funding cycle.
Basically they found subsidy was running away (on older franchises) and had to cut back on the ones they were letting in that Parliament (Blair as it happens).
So Northern and Wales & Borders got very bad "no growth" (read - less subsidy) deals.
To cap it all W&B was for 15 years.
The only good point was that they benefited from TPE's franchise when they ordered 185s, and were able to take all the 175s because they had to be based in Chester.

While Northern has now come through the fire and got a much better deal from the DfT, there is no clarity at all about what will happen to W&B.
No "vision" if you like, and no "Welsh Powerhouse" to link it to.
Just squabbling between Cardiff and Westminster.

Yesterday's news that the Welsh devolution bill is to be reviewed is interesting.
Rail was a part of that, so we might see something sensible emerge later in the year.
But the clock is ticking and if they are not careful the W&B re-franchising in 2017 will have to be done by the DfT, as powers will not have been devolved to Wales.
 

aformeruser

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
30,636
While Northern has now come through the fire and got a much better deal from the DfT, there is no clarity at all about what will happen to W&B.

There is one big positive for W&B in that they'll be a new Northern service between Manchester and Chester via Warrington meaning crowding should reduce on the ATW services.

The Welsh government seem to have created a problem by wanting further devolution and the ability to control services within England which run in to Wales, something Westminster won't allow. If they were happy to keep things as they are then they could be consulting local groups about what should be included in an unchanged franchise. As it is DfT are expecting some services to transfer to LM but aren't consulting on those services as part of the LM consultation because the transfers aren't confirmed yet.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
6,655
But the clock is ticking and if they are not careful the W&B re-franchising in 2017 will have to be done by the DfT, as powers will not have been devolved to Wales.

How about a similar style of franchise structure similar to the LM franchise if devolution of powers doesn't happen?
 

QueensCurve

Established Member
Joined
22 Dec 2014
Messages
1,711
A bit more than 5 or 6 years, more like 10! I can remember a lot of failures around 2007-08-09, a lot seemed to revolve around either door faults or the hydro-dynamic brake which am I right is still isolated on all of them? If they're better now fair enough but the teething problems lasted a lot longer than they should have done.

DMUs running at 100mph should not be relying solely on disc brakes.

I didn't know hydro dynamic brakes were still used. I thought they were unique to the APT?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top