Poor customer service SWT

[bb21]

Fair point. But delays on the Kingston rounders after Person Hit By Train on the mainline side should not screw up the entire Windsor line side.

Obviously you have not considered the mainline trains that get diverted via Richmond, have you? Long distance mainline services will be diverted that way in disruption where crew knowledge allows.

The Surbiton fatality completely stopped the job, as the person was hit on the fast line and also did some damage to the 159. There was little else they could do to get people moving. I know some people do not believe this, but the biggest priority for control in those times was to get people moving asap. Stranded passengers are more likely to cause problems compared to those on the move but delayed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

India in Waterloo? That's where their help point Operators are based

When resources are strained, it gets diverted to NRE.

I can well imagine Friday night being a time when the WICC is not particularly well staffed.

 

[theironroad]

The automated audio announcements were announcing that the 'emergency services are dealing with an incident between Woking and Wimbledon ' all evening after the incident and throughout the Swt network.

 

[bb21]

You don't have to tell the exact location. Just the line or even nothing about the location would be enough.

You miss the point.

It is about not reinforcing the idea that railway stations are great places for suicides. People so fed up of life aren't going to care which station is chosen. It just reinforces the idea in their heads that coming to a station is a good choice.

It is also about not putting ideas in their heads.

 

[TRAX]

I'm not the one who said mentioning a station has influence on suicidal people.

I'm just saying there is no interest in saying where an incident of that nature occured.

 

[theironroad]

This keeps cropping up. An academic report was commissioned a couple of years ago and the results lead to the new atoc guidelines about reporting these incidents.

I don't have a link to the report but it's out there on the web somewhere.

 

[bb21]

I am just expressing my own personal experience of SWT. To the person that mentioned that he managed to get SWT to provide additional transport, I am just overwhelmed in how you managed to pull this off, and where did you find the staff?

You weren't stranded, so why would they provide you with a taxi?

 

[theironroad]

Well at least the op's lack of knowing what was going on meant he was not one of the people reported in the Swt twitter feed by a passenger on Saturday night who were taking pictures of the remains of the deceased body at surbiton. Sickening.

 

[tsr]

Well at least the op's lack of knowing what was going on meant he was not one of the people reported in the Swt twitter feed by a passenger on Saturday night who were taking pictures of the remains of the deceased body at surbiton. Sickening.

Not the first time it's happened in South London in general (probably in the rest of the country too). Indeed sickening.

 

[TRAX]

It's probably a worldwide thing. How can people...

 

[infobleep]

Well at least the op's lack of knowing what was going on meant he was not one of the people reported in the Swt twitter feed by a passenger on Saturday night who were taking pictures of the remains of the deceased body at surbiton. Sickening.

Were they a paparazzi photographer or perhaps a budding one. That isn't on really.

Not sure if photographs of suicide victims would stop people doing that. That might be the only reason you'd want to document it. Like documenting a war to show people,who don't know and might be able to help, how bad things are. Don't feel that approach is required when someone has committed suicide.

On the wider issue of disruption. Some years ago I seemed to hit an issue whereby they would terminate and start Portsmouth to Waterloo services at Guildford. So you'd get a fast train from London and get stuck at Woking. Not sure why I didn't go via the Guildford new line. Perhaps that had issues too or I wasn't expecting to be stuck at Woking.

Onw time with a friend I thought it best to take the fires fast train to Woking. Then all the late running evening peak non stop services to Guildford came through without stopping. Think we had to wait an hour that evening. Platform packed.

Very occasionally being able to get from Guildford to Woking and visa versa still happens, usually when trains are diverted from Portsmouth via Basingstoke. However on the whole it's a lot better than it use to be. There doesn't seem to be so many long gaps between Woking and Guildford during disruption.

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[bb21]

Guildford New Line diversions still happen, subject to crew knowledge and spare capacity on the line. Obviously that's not possible on Friday as the fatality is at Surbiton. Some trains were diverted via Epsom.

For issues on the mainline, diversion via Virginia Water is usually the easiest as more depots sign that route.

 

[trainmania100]

I've had some pretty disgusting attitude from SWT staff, especially at Southampton Central.
I won't say any more, other than I'll think twice before going to SOU again

 

[bb21]

I've had some pretty disgusting attitude from SWT staff, especially at Southampton Central.
I won't say any more, other than I'll think twice before going to SOU again

When one receives poor service, one needs to report it, not necessarily to get anyone in trouble, but more to help fellow customers. Without being told, the company would not necessarily be aware of certain conducts of some employees, and cannot act accordingly (retraining, disciplinary actions, whatever else needed, etc).

 

[43096]

Obviously you have not considered the mainline trains that get diverted via Richmond, have you? Long distance mainline services will be diverted that way in disruption where crew knowledge allows.

I can well imagine Friday night being a time when the WICC is not particularly well staffed.

And how often do diversions happen on an unplanned basis? Rarely in my experience.

It doesn't matter how well staffed WICC is, as soon as they get an incident they go into headless chicken mode.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

You have one major issue sending things via Richmond or Hounslow to Woking and that's called the Byfleet Curve.

There's only 2 trains a day booked that way one early morning, one late evening, nothing in between. It's only on a Sunday do you get an hourly service between Woking & Waterloo via the curve, as I've said outside of that nothing.

That almost naturally says that the diversionary route knowledge is going to be highly restricted over the Byfleet Curve. IIRC Woking, Waterloo, Wimbledon, Staines, Strawberry Hill and Basingstoke are the only depots that sign it.

So you have Weymouth, Bournemouth, Salisbury, Fratton, Guildford, Farnham don't, so you're stuffed. I'm afraid you have the short sighted bean counters to thank for chopping the route knowledge back to the bone/basic core for those depots.

Even some of Fratton depot don't know via Cobham, let alone via Epsom & Worcester Park!

Farnham know Cobham, but not Epsom, however they can divert via Camberley and Ascot to Waterloo with an Alton service, but the problem is there is that many trains are crewed by Wimbledon & Basingstoke and neither of them know via Camberley, nor do they know via Ash should the problem be at Woking, so it's pot luck whether you get anywhere or not.

 

[bb21]

And how often do diversions happen on an unplanned basis? Rarely in my experience.

It doesn't matter how well staffed WICC is, as soon as they get an incident they go into headless chicken mode.

I don't think you can call it rare. It's happened a few times in as many weeks recently. It all depends on how often the job is stopped on the mainline. One of the Sunday mornings recently some even had to go via Hounslow due to possession via Richmond.

I will leave you to slag off the WICC, as some people on here seem to prefer doing, and not be drawn into an argument, as tempting as it may be. I now take the same approach as with passengers who slag off staff on forums - thank goodness people are only gobbing off rather than punching those they have a problem with.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I don't think you can call it rare. It's happened a few times in as many weeks recently. It all depends on how often the job is stopped on the mainline. One of the Sunday mornings recently some even had to go via Hounslow due to possession via Richmond.

I will leave you to slag off the WICC, as some people on here seem to prefer doing, and not be drawn into an argument, as tempting as it may be. I now take the same approach as with passengers who slag off staff on forums - thank goodness people are only gobbing off rather than punching those they have a problem with.

I hate to say it, but 43096 is essentially correct. It regularly goes into headless chicken mode and you get the most bizarre and nonsensical decisions from them if you can get any decision made at all.

There have been occasions where we haven't been able to get anything out of them and so you get the signallers, train crew and RMs cobble something together and get things moving again, usually quite successfully too, which begs the question of "What's the point of WICC?".

 

[Matt Taylor]

Even some of Fratton depot don't know via Cobham, let alone via Epsom & Worcester Park!

None of us at Fratton sign Epsom and lower link drivers don't sign the New Line but all guards do.


As for diversions I'd say that Portsmouth to Waterloo services see diversions via either route to London on a weekly basis almost.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Do guards often sign more routes/parts of routes then what drivers sign?

 

[Bookd]

I will put my head above the parapet to be shot at!
With modern technology does the time honoured system of route signing need to be as restrictive as it is? I suggest that an aircraft is more dangerous than a train,
not least because it is not attached to the ground, but a qualified pilot can go anywhere relying on navigation systems to tell the way.
In the case of the Byfleet curve, for example, which is little used, why can there not be the equivalent of a sophisticated sat nav system showing the route, speed restrictions, signals and anything else necessary so that any driver could follow it if necessary?
Only asking!

 

[bb21]

I hate to say it, but 43096 is essentially correct. It regularly goes into headless chicken mode and you get the most bizarre and nonsensical decisions from them if you can get any decision made at all.

There have been occasions where we haven't been able to get anything out of them and so you get the signallers, train crew and RMs cobble something together and get things moving again, usually quite successfully too, which begs the question of "What's the point of WICC?".

Things go wrong sometimes, and I have had first-hand experience of mind-boggling decisions so I won't pretend they are perfect.

It makes me immensely uneasy when people start slagging each other off, as my dad always says to me, "Everyone thinks he can be a better prime minister/train driver/footballer/whatever other profession that fits."

I am just as guilty sometimes, but nothing more than a quick moan to let off steam, and not in public. I don't feel people are in a position (including myself) to judge competently unless they have been in similar roles before and/or have an excellent understanding of what the role entails. I don't know whether you two have before, but I would rather not see people slagging colleagues off, which seems to be a common phenomenon in the industry - other grades, other TOCs, other links at the same depot in some places even, etc.

It's one of the biggest things that really grate me.

 

[philthetube]

I will put my head above the parapet to be shot at!
With modern technology does the time honoured system of route signing need to be as restrictive as it is? I suggest that an aircraft is more dangerous than a train,
not least because it is not attached to the ground, but a qualified pilot can go anywhere relying on navigation systems to tell the way.
In the case of the Byfleet curve, for example, which is little used, why can there not be the equivalent of a sophisticated sat nav system showing the route, speed restrictions, signals and anything else necessary so that any driver could follow it if necessary?
Only asking!

A Pilot, or pilot and co-pilot, would never land at an airport they were unfamiliar with. You would not put a bus driver on a route they don't know either, not even with a sat nav, and I am sure that many people who have travelled on rail replacement bus services know why.

Planes and trains are totally different animals so I cannot understand why these comparisons are often made, the one thing you can be sure of is that the people making the comparisons do on work for the railways or in the aviation industry.

 

[AlterEgo]

A Pilot, or pilot and co-pilot, would never land at an airport they were unfamiliar with.

I don't know where you've got that idea from. It happens all the time!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Planes and trains are totally different animals so I cannot understand why these comparisons are often made, the one thing you can be sure of is that the people making the comparisons do on work for the railways or in the aviation industry.

Well yes, quite.

 

[Matt Taylor]

I don't know where you've got that idea from. It happens all the time!

The Tenerife disaster being a very good example of that, had the Pan Am pilot been familliar with the runway and its exits the disaster may not have happened.

My route knowledge as a guard is geared towards signal sighting, signal locations, station hazards and basic knowledge of the routes between stations.

 

[Hartington]

You miss the point.

It is about not reinforcing the idea that railway stations are great places for suicides. People so fed up of life aren't going to care which station is chosen. It just reinforces the idea in their heads that coming to a station is a good choice.

It is also about not putting ideas in their heads.

I have the unfortunate experience of knowing someone who committed suicide. The method used (not the railway) was one that suggested considerable thought had gone into the planning.

I'm inclined to accept that minimising the information given in the case of a suicide is probably the best way to help minimise copycats.

 

[infobleep]

Sadly more facilities today. Two. Thoughts go out to all those concerned.

Incidentlsly I took a train from Surbiton but was unaware of the issues because there was no mention of it on the live departure board on the NRE app.

Had there been I would have got to the station earlier.

The facility didn't directly affect Surbiton but as trains from Surbiton share the same line as trains that were affected, understandably delays are occurring.

Therefore I think stations, whose services share the lines of trains affected elsewhere, during such disruption, should have disruption notices.

Unfortunately it seems there was another hold up now outside Raynes Park as their is a train at the platform in front of us. Not to mention one at New Malden. We are now being held at Raynes Park itself. May be there's a string of trains into Waterloo. The driver or guard did say we were being held outside Raynes Park for safety reasons so they have at leaf communicated to us.

All the more reason to include stations not directly affected but sharing the line route lines elsewhere in their journey.

To be fair this train only left Surbiton 4 minutes late.

I actually need to get to Clapham Junction and change to another train. Unfortunately there are no fast trains to Clapham Junction at this time. Next one isn't until 18.38 and Waterloo isn't near where I need to be.

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[HarleyDavidson]

To work a train over a route a driver must be fully conversant with it, knowing where all speeds rise & fall, gradients, where signals are and some are "conveniently" positioned behind bridges and on curves and where they can and cannot take you, stations platform lengths, level crossings & their type, foot crossings and where you can terminate and turn around and return and so on.

When you've learnt the route, then you have to be assessed by either a driver manager or DI, it's only when you've passed that can you put pen to paper and officially sign the route.

When you sign a route, you're signing a legal document, which says that you're competent to work a train over that section of line. This is something that you don't do lightly.

You screw it up, you're likely to end up in court or jail.

I could still quite easily work over several lines which were removed from my route ticket, but in the eyes of the law I would have to have a full route refresher and "jump through the hoops" that a newbie would, despite having previously worked over them for many years prior to their deletion from my ticket.

 

[Bookd]

I am sure that HD is 100% correct, but my question was is this all still necessary (rather like cab drivers knowledge in the days of computers)

 

[infobleep]

To work a train over a route a driver must be fully conversant with it, knowing where all speeds rise & fall, gradients, where signals are and some are "conveniently" positioned behind bridges and on curves and where they can and cannot take you, stations platform lengths, level crossings & their type, foot crossings and where you can terminate and turn around and return and so on.

When you've learnt the route, then you have to be assessed by either a driver manager or DI, it's only when you've passed that can you put pen to paper and officially sign the route.

When you sign a route, you're signing a legal document, which says that you're competent to work a train over that section of line. This is something that you don't do lightly.

You screw it up, you're likely to end up in court or jail.

I could still quite easily work over several lines which were removed from my route ticket, but in the eyes of the law I would have to have a full route refresher and "jump through the hoops" that a newbie would, despite having previously worked over them for many years prior to their deletion from my ticket.

That's a big responsibility.

I think my personal experience might explain why you need a trained driver. On a personal level I have a something called face blindness, which means I don't remember or recall people and objects vividly. Thus I'll never be a train driver because I wouldn't be able to remember all the locations well enough before meeting them. I'd remember them when I saw them but that would be too late. As you need to remember them before seeing them.


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[HarleyDavidson]

That's a big responsibility.

I think my personal experience might explain why you need a trained driver. On a personal level I have a something called face blindness, which means I don't remember or recall people and objects vividly. Thus I'll never be a train driver because I wouldn't be able to remember all the locations well enough before meeting them. I'd remember them when I saw them but that would be too late. As you need to remember them before seeing them.


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It's odd because I can recall at will, many of the routes and moves should I want, I can work out my speeds to within 1 or 2 mph to achieve the perfect run, in fact I find going to Waterloo quite tedious and I really do need extra knowledge to keep me interested.