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I believe the UK RVAR (Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations) standard required the opposite (so as to make it easier to reach by someone in a wheelchair), hence why open is at the bottom on a lot of older stock.
Ah yes, I had an inkling that the British standard was the opposite, but I didn't trust my memory enough to run with it. I do think that the PRM-TSI's solution is the better one: open above close seems more "logical", and wheelchair users are accommodated by simply putting both buttons lower down.
Them both lighting up is just a symptom of them being wired into the old wiring where that was the case, which being proper old fashioned electricals rather than computer controlled isn't clever enough to identify the door's position. You only get it on the likes of 150s where they've always done that. Certainly with the old buttons if you pressed open when already open or vice versa you still got the sound of an air valve operating and achieving nothing.
Ah yes, I had an inkling that the British standard was the opposite, but I didn't trust my memory enough to run with it. I do think that the PRM-TSI's solution is the better one: open above close seems more "logical", and wheelchair users are accommodated by simply putting both buttons lower down.
Quite a lot of things are different between the two. I don't for instance think the "TV style" on board information screens would be permissible under RVAR as all text had a minimum font size, whereas PRM-TSI appears to only require that of key information rather than everything. Which is good as you couldn't really do that style of screen (e.g. the connecting departure lists) if you required all the text to be huge unless you put 60" TVs in every vestibule. I suspect that is why that sort of screen is only a recent thing, as it's not like the technology to do a 14-20" ish LCD display with a PC controlling it hasn't existed for the last 20+ years and indeed probably been far cheaper than custom solutions.
I suspect that is why that sort of screen is only a recent thing, as it's not like the technology to do a 14-20" ish LCD display with a PC controlling it hasn't existed for the last 20+ years and indeed probably been far cheaper than custom solutions.
Very fair point. I remember that that's basically what ICE 1 had very early on - although given that it was the early '90s I suspect that for all intents and purposes it was a custom solution
The overhead luggage racks on 222s barely even fit a full rucksack, so even on a full and standing train they won’t get used because nothing else fits!
The overhead luggage racks on 222s barely even fit a full rucksack, so even on a full and standing train they won’t get used because nothing else fits!
Accessible toilet on the class 175 - on the left of the door is the toilet door open button, to the right of the door is the vestibule door open button. Always see people losing patience with the vestibule door button trying to get into the bog!
Here's an interesting one from the class 397. Where is the vestibule door open button? Right behind the handrail! I circled it in the picture; you really have to know it's there. On that journey, I watched passenger after passenger press the big green button to the right in an attempt to get through. Not only is the button invisible, it is sufficiently obscured to make it physically difficult to press anyway.
The armrests next to the windows on IETs are pointless. The design is such that there is panelling above the armrest that makes it physically impossible to place your arm on the armrest.
It would be avoidable by putting the ducts somewhere else (actually inside the rack on Pendolinos for instance) or the racks lower down (across the windows is possible, some FLIRTs do).
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Here's an interesting one from the class 397. Where is the vestibule door open button? Right behind the handrail! I circled it in the picture; you really have to know it's there. On that journey, I watched passenger after passenger press the big green button to the right in an attempt to get through. Not only is the button invisible, it is sufficiently obscured to make it physically difficult to press anyway.
Some stock (*Stars for instance) doesn't have buttons at all, but a little button like motif on the doors and a sensor from above. You see people pressing the "button" increasingly hard when waving at the sensor works better.
Plenty of vestibule door poor design out there. The Pendolino coach A door into the cycle area which opens and closes as the train tilts, for instance, or the constant banging back and forth on Mk2s and Mk3s. Or the Voyager (them again!) ones that try to crush you and make horrible mechanical noises if you block them, I am surprised they have lasted this long without causing serious injury to a frail person or a small child.
The overhead luggage racks on 222s barely even fit a full rucksack, so even on a full and standing train they won’t get used because nothing else fits!
I've heard this for years about Voyagers, but never the Meridians - I've certainly never had a problem putting my rucksack or even my aircraft overhead sized case up there. I know there are a few bulges in the bodywork which restricts the size in those places (guessing there's ducts / cables / etc routed at those points), but you just move along half a foot and it's fine.
I've heard this for years about Voyagers, but never the Meridians - I've certainly never had a problem putting my rucksack or even my aircraft overhead sized case up there. I know there are a few bulges in the bodywork which restricts the size in those places (guessing there's ducts / cables / etc routed at those points), but you just move along half a foot and it's fine.
They are slightly larger and lower in the 222. None of that generation of unit is that good, but Meridians do remove many of the design errors in the original Voyager, just as 442s did compared to the Mk3.
Almost anything which the guard has to interact with on 331s/195s. Such as:
Two part ramps due to poor sill heights
Main part of the ramp being behind the toilet door electrical panel
Small part of the ramp being kept in a different cupboard, but only on 331s - 195s don't have them at all, meaning wheelchair users can't alight at stations with high cant
DCPs being at alternate doors and sides, as mentioned above
DCPs being far too high, meaning unless you're very tall you can't close the doors without boarding
Very bright lights right above the doors which make it almost impossible to see out at night
Cab doors with extremely poor locks with a propensity to swing open
Using not one, but two nonstandard keys (when the 333s, for example, manage just fine with a standard T-key!)
The 80x bike spaces are indeed a disaster, although somehow the voyagers manage to be slightly worse still. They're hard for me to use and I'm a reasonably fit young-ish bloke, could you imagine (you may not have to) having a disability and trying to hang up an e-bike or even trying to get a non-standard cycle in there? You wouldn't stand a chance.
Not on the same level, but the GWR 165s have a bike space with a luggage rack above. There is space for 4 bikes which is pretty good for a 2-car train, but the luggage rack imposes a height restriction and so a sizable proportion of bikes don't fit under there without some really awkward shuffling, or not at all. An extra foot higher would have made plenty of room but apparently nobody gave it much thought.
Not forgetting though, that 333s originally had the same style Kaba keys as 331/195s do now. And given the actual operation of a DCP on the trains I don't think having a more secure key than a T-key is any bad thing.
ScotRail's trains with only one scrolling display in the centre of the coach. Impossible to read when sitting below.
Needs to be one at either end of the coach.
Internal doors, yes. The external cab doors are still problematic as they have a tendency to bang open going over rough track, which breaks the interlocking and puts the brakes into emergency.
The external cab doors are still problematic as they have a tendency to bang open going over rough track, which breaks the interlocking and puts the brakes into emergency.
Also helps as guards will often pop the cab doors open during a brake test without checking with the driver. Which means the test fails, and you have to start the whole process again... which I guess is another example of poor design!
I tend to find the passenger DOOR OPEN and DOOR CLOSE buttons are sometimes a bit confusing. I find they're usually stacked vertically but sometimes the OPEN is at the top and other times the CLOSE is at the top.
Most pre RVAR/PRM TSI trains had the door open buttons at the top and the close button below. In the time when "best endeavours" were required to deliver the improvements it was found that the close button was more or less at the mandated height for the open buttons. As there was no requirement to have close buttons in the regulations, it was accepted that swapping open for closed and vice versa would be deemed compliant.
The Voyager. All of it. Noise. Stench. The flush button being behind the seat. The doors. The windows. The lighting. The seats. The glare surfaces everywhere. The HVAC. The stench. The lack of fresh air. The cycle racks. The stench.
Easily the worst machine running on the network today.
On the IET 'universal access' loos, I am forever pointing out to people where the door close/lock button is (it's the price you pay for standing in a vestibule because your stop's not far away!). People enter, turn back for where the close button 'should' be, then bumble around in a very confused state. It's particularly appropriate come November-January time - "It's behiiiiind you!".
I believe the UK RVAR (Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations) standard required the opposite (so as to make it easier to reach by someone in a wheelchair), hence why open is at the bottom on a lot of older stock.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Here's an interesting one from the class 397. Where is the vestibule door open button? Right behind the handrail! I circled it in the picture; you really have to know it's there. On that journey, I watched passenger after passenger press the big green button to the right in an attempt to get through. Not only is the button invisible, it is sufficiently obscured to make it physically difficult to press anyway.
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