Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

[pokemonsuper9]

as from memory they didn't stop at Ince - even when Ince was open?

Regular Ince stops were only on the Wigan-Leeds services, there were some extra calls by certain other trains (mostly to get people between Ince and Orrel).

Would it be Hindley,

Assuming services were to continue to run as now (which I don't think is the plan) Hindley would be the last possible place, although if the train fails to switch over it'd be quite the issue, as there is no way to divert around it.

 

[Rick1984]

That's encouraging. The 769s, operating as diesel electrics aren't that short of torque so even if their progress is slow, they will usually get to the top, (the 319s were designed to cope with a standing start into a 1:27 in the Thameslink core) so the motors can obviously cope with the additional heat that a much more gentle 1:60+ creates. From posts here, I recall that there were issues particularly on the Welsh valley lines where a long drag up from Heath station could result in some engine overheating issues, so maybe Brodie addressed the prime mover cooling durability.

Interesting. I thought they'd really struggle with the climb from Barrhead

 

[Geeves]

For short and steep climbs there's definitely no issues as they are still climbing out of Manchester Victoria everyday okay... When they haven't expired somewhere else!

 

[AMD]

Apart for 431 doing a short out and back between Wigan & Southport this morning, anyone else notice that there's no 769s out today?

 

[david l]

Several cancellations, and umpteen short forms on Manchester-Southports today.

 

[Mollman]

Several cancellations, and umpteen short forms on Manchester-Southports today.

Though it seems like Blackpools and Calder Valley are also suffering from short forms - yesterday there seemed to be a lot of changes in the east due to 'more trains than normal needing repair'

 

[Bald Rick]

Several cancellations, and umpteen short forms on Manchester-Southports today.

Thats more to do with last night than the type of rolling stock.

 

[nightflyian]

434 been sat at Southport since yesterday morning on platform 6. According to Realtime 2F82 arrived Meols Cop +13 left +53 late and 51 late at Southport !

 

[Geeves]

We sent a 769 up to Newton Heath on Tuesday night. Took roughly half an hour to make up the bank. I fear when I said they were climbing happily I may have jinxed it! Additionally, police incident at Farnworth on Monday, two trees at Bradford with various damaged units and made a horrendous mess of the train plan for the entire day on Tues is likely still affecting things today.

 

[M60lad]

Do we know which units were damaged by the trees? Only reason for the question was that I've noticed 158754 stabled in the sidings near Metrolink tracks that the 195s use at Newton Heath for the past couple of days (Sorry for taking this off thread).

 

[Geeves]

I think by the time the second set of trees came down everything was so up the wall that nothing was around to hit them, so just the 158 (SFAIK)

424 - ? Weirdly showing no info as if its been withdrawn?
431 - Springs Branch
434 - Broken at Southport
442 - Allerton
448 - Newton Heath
450 - Allerton
456 - Wigan Wallgate (No further work due to failure of 431)
458 - Allerton

431 has now failed which means 456 also has to come out of service (1101)

 

[nightflyian]

Looks like 431 rescued 434 with both returning to Springs branch earlier today

Realtime Trains | 5O74 1005 Southport to Springs Branch Stabl Sdg | 12/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5O74 1005 departure from Southport to Springs Branch Stabl Sdg on 12/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Given its the Southport Air show this weekend, its going to be interesting if every service that runs is a 2 car service.

I hope Northern have a plan !

 

[Mollman]

Looks like 431 rescued 434 with both returning to Springs branch earlier today

Realtime Trains | 5O74 1005 Southport to Springs Branch Stabl Sdg | 12/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5O74 1005 departure from Southport to Springs Branch Stabl Sdg on 12/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Given its the Southport Air show this weekend, its going to be interesting if every service that runs is a 2 car service.

I hope Northern have a plan !

I expect other diesel routes to be short formed tomorrow to strengthen Southport, Sunday will be more affected by staffing levels.

 

[Geeves]

Looks like 431 rescued 434 with both returning to Springs branch earlier today

Realtime Trains | 5O74 1005 Southport to Springs Branch Stabl Sdg | 12/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5O74 1005 departure from Southport to Springs Branch Stabl Sdg on 12/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Given its the Southport Air show this weekend, its going to be interesting if every service that runs is a 2 car service.

I hope Northern have a plan !

I saw that after I posted. A friend of mine was driving 431 so presumably what ever the issue was meant it was a convenient time to go and rescue it's demic cousin up at the seaside lol . I'm going to assume power change issues.

 

[nightflyian]

Not looking too bad to today given its the airshow. Quite a few 4 car services looking at Realtime with 431 and 448 back out and about. With the Red Arrows closing the show at 5pm today I suspect the 1805 2O72 service will be busy
431 doing the honours.

 

[Geeves]

Like you say its not looking too bad!

769431
769448

With the usual ragtag bunch on the rest

156428 + 156460
150146 + 156410
150118 + 156441
150120
156422
156408

 

[Foggycorner]

Northern need to get some of the ex GW sets and base them all at wigan springs branch depot with dedicated staff to look after them

 

[Nym]

Northern need to get some of the ex GW sets and base them all at wigan springs branch depot with dedicated staff to look after them

Why would they want the much more unnecessarily complicated 769/9s compared with the 769/4s?

 

[D365]

Why would they want the much more unnecessarily complicated 769/9s compared with the 769/4s?

Indeed - are the ex-TfW /0s not closer in specification to the Northern /4s?

 

[Nym]

Indeed - are the ex-TfW /0s not closer in specification to the Northern /4s?

Much closer, except for their missing pantographs, lack of 1st class seating (although the /4's don't have it either?) different stickers, different WiFi and a couple of other minor things.
Has the Northern 769/4s had the horrific new LCDs from TrainFX or still the old DMIs?

 

[Geeves]

At the expense of short forms it seems Northern can get away with very few in service, you would have to ask why they would want to fill Allerton, Springs Branch, Southport Platforms and anywhere else these junk Frankensteins spend their time with even more of them! In the not too distant future they are going to be surplus to requirements anyway, thankfully.

Also they already have a dedicated team at Allerton, they have specific special diagrams that means they are cycling through the depots every other day and still they are broken every day.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

lack of 1st class seating (although the /4's don't have it either?)

They have the 2+1 seating and the seats, but no indication at all of being ex-first Class except the better seating

Has the Northern 769/4s had the horrific new LCDs from TrainFX or still the old DMIs?

Still the old type.

 

[AndrewE]

Also they already have a dedicated team at Allerton, they have specific special diagrams that means they are cycling through the depots every other day and still they are broken every day.

does that say more about the "dedicated team at Allerton" or the units?

 

[Geeves]

There has been an issue with the power change over since they had engines added on, someone more knowledgeable than me will know but it seems you can keep fitting the replacement part but the issue keeps coming back and no solution has been found

 

[Wyrleybart]

There has been an issue with the power change over since they had engines added on, someone more knowledgeable than me will know but it seems you can keep fitting the replacement part but the issue keeps coming back and no solution has been found

In my opinion Porterbrook should have obtained the services of an ex Alstom engineer who spent the class 319's lifetime in involvement with them. Sadly they didn't and fitted the new kit in a "non traditional way". AIUI the unit has to be rebooted in order to try and get an engine restarted, rather than the traditional DMU method of pressing the engine start button.

 

[Geeves]

Yes that makes sense, I have often heard the fitters saying they are rebooting the power change over so I am assuming they have some kind of micro computer fitted to control it vs the old school way it was controlled before?

There's been a a 769 breakdown already this morning so the first ECS from Allerton to Vic had to be replaced short notice with a 150. Just the one out it seems...

424 - ?
431 - Springs Branch
434 - Springs Branch
442 - Allerton
448 - Out
450 - Allerton
456 - Allerton
458 - Allerton

448 as expected is now OOS due to no other 769s in use to rescue it. 156x2 to replace. No more 769s for today.

 

[craigybagel]

does that say more about the "dedicated team at Allerton" or the units?

If the units had been a roaring success everywhere else in the country, it might say something about the quality of the team. But the TfW units were also an abomination, andv whilst we'll never know exactly with GWR given those units never entered service, the project was running very late when it was finally abandoned. I know where my suspicions lie.

 

[Geeves]

769456 has been on test today with a run up to Wigan NW and back as 5Y76 ROG operated

 

[Bikeman78]

Yes that makes sense, I have often heard the fitters saying they are rebooting the power change over so I am assuming they have some kind of micro computer fitted to control it vs the old school way it was controlled before?

There's been a a 769 breakdown already this morning so the first ECS from Allerton to Vic had to be replaced short notice with a 150. Just the one out it seems...

424 - ?
431 - Springs Branch
434 - Springs Branch
442 - Allerton
448 - Out
450 - Allerton
456 - Allerton
458 - Allerton

448 as expected is now OOS due to no other 769s in use to rescue it. 156x2 to replace. No more 769s for today.

Are all the others so knackered that they couldn't rescue a failure? Shows how little faith there is in them. 150s or 153s still go to Pembroke Dock or Milford Haven. The nearest compatible rescue unit is probably on the Heart of Wales.

 

[Foggycorner]

Its only some people on here who have taken a dislike to them and only report failures the ones i travel on work fine mind you it has taken staff a while to get the hang of them