Portsmouth Harbour-Cardiff Central GWR

[moley]

Think you'll find that the figure for Fratton is correct, it's now the busiest station in Portsmouth. There's a row brewing about the adequacy of the station to deal with the crowds. There was allegedly an incident on Saturday after the football when several families stumbled as the crowd surged to try and get on the 2 car GWR that had been sent as the first train to clear a crowd of 18k.

Of topic, but this comes back to the row between the council, football club and Network Rail. The first two are happy to stump up a 1/3rd each to investigate the viability of a second entrance at the north end of the station to relieve congestion but the later refuses a single penny.

 

[Towers]

Think you'll find that the figure for Fratton is correct, it's now the busiest station in Portsmouth. There's a row brewing about the adequacy of the station to deal with the crowds. There was allegedly an incident on Saturday after the football when several families stumbled as the crowd surged to try and get on the 2 car GWR that had been sent as the first train to clear a crowd of 18k.

In fairness, the GWR won’t have been “sent to clear the crowds”, it will simply have been the next timetabled service. There are rarely any sort of specials run for matches at Fratton Park, the regular train service copes as best it can.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

In fairness, the GWR won’t have been “sent to clear the crowds”, it will simply have been the next timetabled service. There are rarely any sort of specials run for matches at Fratton Park, the regular train service copes as best it can.

That’s never actually the case - when Pompey are playing at home after the match there is always a relief towards Fareham and Eastleigh run.

Realtime Trains | 2T98 1736 Portsmouth & Southsea to Eastleigh | 23/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 2T98 1736 departure from Portsmouth & Southsea to Eastleigh on 23/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Towers]

That’s never actually the case - when Pompey are playing at home after the match there is always a relief towards Fareham and Eastleigh run.

Realtime Trains | 2T98 1736 Portsmouth & Southsea to Eastleigh | 23/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 2T98 1736 departure from Portsmouth & Southsea to Eastleigh on 23/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Interesting. That I didn’t know!

Won’t be many GWR specials though, however!

 

[paul1609]

In fairness, the GWR won’t have been “sent to clear the crowds”, it will simply have been the next timetabled service. There are rarely any sort of specials run for matches at Fratton Park, the regular train service copes as best it can.

Sorry that's not correct on nearly all home matches SWR run an additional 8 car 450 football special to Eastleigh. The issue is that these silly short formed GWR trains are allowed to preceed them.

 

[Towers]

Sorry that's not correct on nearly all home matches SWR run an additional 8 car 450 football special to Eastleigh. The issue is that these silly short formed GWR trains are allowed to preceed them.

As above, I wasn’t aware of that and so stand corrected!

That’ll be a pathing issue, then; can’t run a stopper in front of the fast GWR even if that means GWR get hammered with Cosham/Fareham/Southampton(maybe!) punters.

 

[paul1609]

As above, I wasn’t aware of that and so stand corrected!

That’ll be a pathing issue, then; can’t run a stopper in front of the fast GWR even if that means GWR get hammered with Cosham/Fareham/Southampton(maybe!) punters.

Turn back the GWR train at Fareham Platform 2 every time it's shortformed. Orr to issue an enforcement notice on safety grounds if required.

 

[kw12]

Turn back the GWR train at Fareham Platform 2 every time it's shortformed. Orr to issue an enforcement notice on safety grounds if required.

Or simply skip the Fratton stop

 

[cactustwirly]

Following up with a few swaps with EMR could enable Northern to use an entirely Perkins 2-158 fleet with EMR now having an entirely Cummins fleet too, perhaps.

That leaves Northern and EMR with non standard fleets. I don't see how that workable, EMR manage fine with 2 engine types.

 

[The exile]

Or simply skip the Fratton stop

Which would seem to be the most logical /safe solution in the short-term.

 

[baza585]

Which would seem to be the most logical /safe solution in the short-term.

Surely it makes more sense to run the relief train ahead of the Cardiff departure.

 

[The exile]

Not if it does all stops - thus slowing down the limited stop (I hesitate to use the word “express”) GWR train. Otherwise, yes.

 

[moley]

Surely it makes more sense to run the relief train ahead of the Cardiff departure.

It used to…. But it was being found that the matches were finishing so late that the passengers were not there for 1718 or whenever it used to run.

 

[Snow1964]

It used to…. But it was being found that the matches were finishing so late that the passengers were not there for 1718 or whenever it used to run.

You would think in this era of instant communication it wouldn't be too hard to hold the train in siding or Portsmouth & Southsea low level until someone at Fratton reports passengers arriving at station after the match.

The whole purpose of a crowd buster relief is to be there for the crowd

 

[JonathanH]

You would think in this era of instant communication it wouldn't be too hard to hold the train in siding or Portsmouth & Southsea low level until someone at Fratton reports passengers arriving at station after the match.

The whole purpose of a crowd buster relief is to be there for the crowd

Why should people travelling further down the line be delayed because a stopping train goes out in front of the limited stop service?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Turn back the GWR train at Fareham Platform 2 every time it's shortformed. Orr to issue an enforcement notice on safety grounds if required.

So how will running even less trains help disperse the crowds by forcing passengers for this service onto the football special to connect.

 

[baza585]

Why should people travelling further down the line be delayed because a stopping train goes out in front of the limited stop service?

Because if it doesn't then the Cardiff gets rammed full and longer distance passengers can't get on. I am such a passenger when Pompey are at home. I'd much rather be 10 late than be unable to board at Fratton and have to wait an hour for the next Cardiff service.

 

[RedPostJunc]

Because if it doesn't then the Cardiff gets rammed full and longer distance passengers can't get on. I am such a passenger when Pompey are at home. I'd much rather be 10 late than be unable to board at Fratton and have to wait an hour for the next Cardiff service.

In recent seasons, the number of games having over 5 minutes of stoppage time has gone up. As a result, the 1708 departure for Waterloo via Eastleigh stopping service is too early for most fans returning to Cosham and Fareham, so the first available train for those fans is the Cardiff train.

It also depends on whether you can get onto the platform for the Cardiff train. There is always a queue for platform 1 after the match. Access has to be restricted by staff/security closing the access gate because the platform reaches its capacity. Passengers intending to travel on the Cardiff train can be queuing for the platform, while passengers for later trains are already on the platform. This is very frustrating for people like me who want to use the Cardiff train for stations beyond Fareham. Having to wait on Fratton station for up to an hour for the next Cardiff train on a cold, wet, dark Saturday afternoon is not a pleasant experience!

 

[Last Hurrah]

A potential solution would be for kick off time to be brought forward 15 mins to 2.45pm, enabling an initial rush of post game fans to reach Fratton, in time for the 17.08pm stopping service to Waterloo via Eastleigh

As simple as that sounds, solving one problem can often create another problem . .

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Sorry that's not correct on nearly all home matches SWR run an additional 8 car 450 football special to Eastleigh

That goes back to BR days. We (SWD) use to run this with an 8 VEP (or 8 CIG) depending on availability of spares at Fratton depot on the day. It would run empty down to Southsea Low Level, and return to Fratton p1, so as to fit within other services. On some occasions it only ran as far as Fareham, but either way, returned empty to Fratton depot afterwards.

 

[Snow1964]

Massive lack of available rolling stock again today Portsmouth-Cardiff line

Following are all 2car
1F03, 1F05, 1F09, 1F12, 1F14, 1F18, 1F19, 1F21, .......

And if you go on GWR website, will not find any warnings of short forms or potentially crowded trains, because it has become the norm

 

[75A]

A potential solution would be for kick off time to be brought forward 15 mins to 2.45pm, enabling an initial rush of post game fans to reach Fratton, in time for the 17.08pm stopping service to Waterloo via Eastleigh

As simple as that sounds, solving one problem can often create another problem . .

Sensible as it sounds that'll never happen

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Sensible as it sounds that'll never happen

How right you are! I well remember travelling issues that arose at various times for fans of sporting events, ie: Fratton footy, Twickers rugby etc, and the railway putting forward possible solutions to the sporting bodies concerned, which may have eased problems raised. But any suggestion that they (the sporting bodies and perhaps more crucially in some instances, TV companies) should consider changing kick off times marginally, was met with a brick wall type response. Always thought that was often a smack in the face to the fans who actually attended/tried to attend, as opposed to those sitting at home watching on the box!

Apologies, going OT (again)..

 

[RJ]

I used this service a few weeks back when there was a big gap in the London - Cardiff service. It was a 5 car Turbo which was packed out at Bath Spa. Got to Bristol Temple Meads where they announced the service would be splitting due the train being needed for another service!

Fortunately I was on the ball and able to hot foot it to the front unit and get a breathing space over the luggage rack but a lot of people had armpit spots and there were a lot of left behinds!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Massive lack of available rolling stock again today Portsmouth-Cardiff line

Following are all 2car
1F03, 1F05, 1F09, 1F12, 1F14, 1F18, 1F19, 1F21, .......

And if you go on GWR website, will not find any warnings of short forms or potentially crowded trains, because it has become the norm

Those sort forms are showing on the GWR journey check.

 

[Mike Machin]

In a more logical world it would be seen as absolutely bonkers having dozens of perfectly good spare available resources sitting around in sidings while the paying public suffers such misery.

It’s nothing short of scandalous!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The 1533 Fratton to Cardiff was showing on RTT as a single 158 but did however show up as a pair.

I skipped it and waited for 166208 on the 1633, as I like the declassified first class more Especially with the nostalgic FGW colours (which I deliberately sought out as it might be my last time with those for this journey)

It is diverting via Chandlers Ford today due to Southampton engineering.

EDIT: Train is halted at Fareham making the most horrendous noise while stationary. Its been sat here for ten minutes.

View attachment IMG_6514.mov

 

[75A]

How right you are! I well remember travelling issues that arose at various times for fans of sporting events, ie: Fratton footy, Twickers rugby etc, and the railway putting forward possible solutions to the sporting bodies concerned, which may have eased problems raised. But any suggestion that they (the sporting bodies and perhaps more crucially in some instances, TV companies) should consider changing kick off times marginally, was met with a brick wall type response. Always thought that was often a smack in the face to the fans who actually attended/tried to attend, as opposed to those sitting at home watching on the box!

Apologies, going OT (again)..

My late Father and I always parked @ Chertsey station for Twickenham.
At the end of the day we were going the opposite way to the masses and no queuing & it was close to the M25 / M3 which suited both of us.
Similar plan for The Oval & Lords, we'd park in Woking Telephone Exchange Car Park (where I worked) and get a train to Waterloo & then the tube for Lords or Vauxhall for the Oval

 

[FGW_DID]

......absolutely bonkers having dozens of perfectly good spare available resources sitting around in sidings while the paying public suffers such misery......

Would you like to point out where all these 'perfectly good spare available resources' are sitting in sidings?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

In a more logical world it would be seen as absolutely bonkers having dozens of perfectly good spare available resources sitting around in sidings while the paying public suffers such misery.

It’s nothing short of scandalous!

Would you be prepared to pay increased taxes to cover the costs?