Portsmouth - Waterloo stock allocations?

[GarethW]

I've had a quick search and couldn't find this - I know it has been posted in the past - but could someone post what stock allocations (444/450) are currently used on the Portsmouth - Waterloo services both direct and via Basingstoke.

I'm particularly interested in Saturday's.

Very many thanks in advance.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I've had a quick search and couldn't find this - I know it has been posted in the past - but could someone post what stock allocations (444/450) are currently used on the Portsmouth - Waterloo services both direct and via Basingstoke.

I'm particularly interested in Saturday's.

Very many thanks in advance.

Apart from 2P03 0515 Guildford - Portsmouth and a couple of others, all Portsmouth direct services are formed of 450 stock to satisfy the whingers of Surrey, who're always whining about lack of seats.

On the other hand via Eastleigh you'll get mostly 444s.

 

[TEW]

As HarleyDavidson says, on Saturdays nearly all services on the direct route are formed of 8 carriage 450s, and nearly all services via Basingstoke are formed of 5 carriage 444s.

 

[stut]

Apart from 2P03 0515 Guildford - Portsmouth and a couple of others, all Portsmouth direct services are formed of 450 stock to satisfy the whingers of Surrey, who're always whining about lack of seats.

And to anger the whingers of Surrey, who're always whining about lack of comfort. Wasn't there even a lawsuit planned* due to alleged widespread back pain?

*made up for the purposes of making it into the Daily Heil

 

[crehld]

I remember when they withdrew many of the 444s from the Portsmouth direct line when I used to commute between Petersfield and Portsmouth. Much outrage ensued - several Portsmouth councillor candidates stood for election on a commitment "to get the white trains back": a promise which of course could never be kept!

 

[theironroad]

I remember when they withdrew many of the 444s from the Portsmouth direct line when I used to commute between Petersfield and Portsmouth. Much outrage ensued - several Portsmouth councillor candidates stood for election on a commitment "to get the white trains back": a promise which of course could never be kept!

Well, if they had kept the 442's........

 

[bramling]

Apart from 2P03 0515 Guildford - Portsmouth and a couple of others, all Portsmouth direct services are formed of 450 stock to satisfy the whingers of Surrey, who're always whining about lack of seats.

On the other hand via Eastleigh you'll get mostly 444s.

Makes me laugh though as presumably the 450s would have ended up elsewhere, so if it wasn't the Portsmouth line complaining about the 3+2 seats then it would have been somewhere else! Having said that, are there still a few diagrams which take 444s to Alton?

I've done Waterloo to Weymouth in a class 450 and personally I actually prefer them to the 444s as there are more facing seats and they have better window alignment. However this was on a lightly loaded train, a 450 with all seats taken is another matter.

 

[swt_passenger]

Makes me laugh though as presumably the 450s would have ended up elsewhere, so if it wasn't the Portsmouth line complaining about the 3+2 seats then it would have been somewhere else!

If the 442s had been kept, the 458s would have gone off lease. So 2+3 458s would have been replaced by 2+3 450s, presumably they would have been considered an improvement.

 

[cjmillsnun]

And to anger the whingers of Surrey, who're always whining about lack of comfort. Wasn't there even a lawsuit planned* due to alleged widespread back pain?

*made up for the purposes of making it into the Daily Heil

Actually it was people in Hampshire who were complaining about lack of comfort.

 

[MTN]

​

I remember when they withdrew many of the 444s from the Portsmouth direct line when I used to commute between Petersfield and Portsmouth. Much outrage ensued - several Portsmouth councillor candidates stood for election on a commitment "to get the white trains back": a promise which of course could never be kept!

Paint the 450s white. Problem solved

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Makes me laugh though as presumably the 450s would have ended up elsewhere, so if it wasn't the Portsmouth line complaining about the 3+2 seats then it would have been somewhere else! Having said that, are there still a few diagrams which take 444s to Alton?

I've done Waterloo to Weymouth in a class 450 and personally I actually prefer them to the 444s as there are more facing seats and they have better window alignment. However this was on a lightly loaded train, a 450 with all seats taken is another matter.

The 444s are only down the Alton line to placate ALUG. A bunch who think Alton is on a mainline! :roll:

Unfortunately social media policy prevents people saying what they think of ALUG.:roll:

 

[cjmillsnun]

The 444s are only down the Alton line to placate ALUG. A bunch who think Alton is on a mainline! :roll:

Unfortunately social media policy prevents people saying what they think of ALUG.:roll:

I've said give em 455's before, but I'll revise it. Give em pacers.

 

[DerekC]

Apart from 2P03 0515 Guildford - Portsmouth and a couple of others, all Portsmouth direct services are formed of 450 stock to satisfy the whingers of Surrey, who're always whining about lack of seats.

On weekdays, several peak and quite a lot of off-peak services on the Portsmouth Direct are still 444s. Not sure where they go on Saturdays.

 

[Blaahh]

There is nothing good to say about 450s.

 

[hassaanhc]

There is nothing good to say about 450s.

Ah yes, that debate again . As a passenger on the Hounslow Loop I find myself checking to see which services are 450 and not 458 *Puts on tin foil hat*
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I remember when they withdrew many of the 444s from the Portsmouth direct line when I used to commute between Petersfield and Portsmouth. Much outrage ensued - several Portsmouth councillor candidates stood for election on a commitment "to get the white trains back": a promise which of course could never be kept!

​

Paint the 450s white. Problem solved

They really should have done that . In hindsight I do wonder if they regret going for the 444s instead of more 450s because of dwell time issues? Can take some time unloading and loading again even off-peak in various locations.

 

[TEW]

On weekdays, several peak and quite a lot of off-peak services on the Portsmouth Direct are still 444s. Not sure where they go on Saturdays.

All Portsmouth via Eastleigh and Poole stopping services are formed of 444s on Saturdays, they're a mix of 450s and 444s in the week. More Off Peak Weymouth services are 10 rather than 5-car 444s on Saturdays too. Then you have the standard reduction in the number of units used at a Weekend compared to a Weekday. As alluded to above, 5-car 444s would not be at all suitable on a Saturday as they'd be overcrowded on quite a lot of trains. 8-car 450s provide adequate capacity of most trains, but they're still often insufficient on morning services towards London, and evening services heading back out of London.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The 450s could be made better by making them 2+2 by taking out the extra seat in all the 2+3 rows. It can be a pita with a suitcase, trying to get down the narrow isle. Going from Portsmouth in the direction of London, where does the main commuter traffic start from?

 

[AM9]

The 450s could be made better by making them 2+2 by taking out the extra seat in all the 2+3 rows. It can be a pita with a suitcase, trying to get down the narrow isle. Going from Portsmouth in the direction of London, where does the main commuter traffic start from?

Portsmouth apparently.

 

[DerekC]

On the Portsmouth Direct you can get a seat on almost any train at Petersfield (provided there haven't been any cancellations). At Haslemere some services get pretty full and from Guildford there is lots of standing in the peak. However it never ceases to amaze me that some people would rather stand near the front of the train than look for a seat at the back, even from Haslemere. On 450s there is a certain element who sit in the vestibules when there are spare centre seats available in the 2+3s.

 

[387star]

I love 450s must be rare.. not at rush hour though.. but otherwise fine beasts

 

[GarethW]

Many thanks for the gen.

I'm now in the wilds of Gosport so it's poss to go either from Fareham or the Harbour.

Engineering works next weekend somI presume most Pmth-Waterloo traffic will be hopping on the Eastleigh trains which are likely
to be quite full by Fareham.

Decisions, decisions.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I love 450s must be rare.. not at rush hour though.. but otherwise fine beasts

You just need therapy! Psychotherapy!

 

[TEW]

Many thanks for the gen.

I'm now in the wilds of Gosport so it's poss to go either from Fareham or the Harbour.

Engineering works next weekend somI presume most Pmth-Waterloo traffic will be hopping on the Eastleigh trains which are likely
to be quite full by Fareham.

Decisions, decisions.

Via Eastleigh trains are usually strengthened on Saturdays if the direct route is closed.

 

[FenMan]

I often catch the 9:17 or 10:17 from Guildford on Saturday mornings and confirm a reasonable number of seats are normally available in the rear coaches.

Is SWT still using a 5-car 444 for the 23:15 on Saturdays? In my experience that service can be very overcrowded as far as Guildford.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

No idea, I think that it might vary if engineering work intervenes. Loads of alterations from now until near Xmas due to midweek engineering works between Haslemere and Petersfield.

 

[nw1]

On weekdays, several peak and quite a lot of off-peak services on the Portsmouth Direct are still 444s. Not sure where they go on Saturdays.

From my observations both lines (direct and Eastleigh) are a fairly even mix of 444/450 Mon-Fri but on Saturday the direct appears to be pure 450 and the Eastleigh pure 444.

One feature is that the diagrams for the fasts on the direct mix with the diagrams for the slows - so you end up getting a mixture of both Mon-Fri rather than 444s on the fasts and 450s on the slows.

 

[RobShipway]

I wonder in hindsight if the 450's that became 350's would have been better staying with South West Trains and diverting the class 444's instead?

Apologies, if this question has been asked before.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The 444s are highly prized and thought of. It's a shame that they destroyed the jigs for them as I think that they'd have sold hundreds more of them be it on the DC or AC.

What the future holds for them I don't know, as any future franchise holder may want something different, in that they may want a standard fleet across the board, so you may end up with some more modern 23m "Inter-City" style trains for Weymouth and Portsmouth lines and 23m 1/3 & 2/3 for outer suburban stuff.

 

[swt_passenger]

The 444s are highly prized and thought of. It's a shame that they destroyed the jigs for them ...

Good to see the old myth being repeated. As Siemens would have kept the engineering drawings, new jigs would have been easily provided if needed. They aren't 'rocket science', just steel girders bolted together...

What the future holds for them I don't know, as any future franchise holder may want something different, in that they may want a standard fleet across the board, so you may end up with some more modern 23m "Inter-City" style trains for Weymouth and Portsmouth lines and 23m 1/3 & 2/3 for outer suburban stuff.

NR's opinion in the Wessex route study recommends more 12 car 450s on the mainline, to give more 2+3 seating. They do accept that passengers may have other preferences...