Possible disruption 19th September?

[AlexNL]

No one has explained to me exactly why it takes so long.
All I've heard basically is very basic explanations, which sound more like NR incompetence for not having the right resources in the right places and no contingency.

If someone would like to explain to me in more detail exactly what makes it more difficult than just re attaching wire to a pole please feel free.

Overhead line electrification is an incredibly complex system, to which a lot of safety standards apply. You need qualified engineers to work on it, as the job must be done properly for safety reasons.

The wires are high up in the air and need to be mounted in such a way that they're completely level. For this they need to be tensioned, which is a complex and precise job. If this isn't done right, the pantograph would bounce against the wire which causes damage and eventually leads to another dewirement.

The headspan setup means that there's more wires to deal with, which have to be mounted even higher and have to be arranged in such a way that they can carry the weight of all wires together. That too is a complex task.

When overhead renewals take place this is planned years in advance normally, getting the right resources and people in the right place at the right time. In today's case, the people, equipment and material all have to be sourced at short notice. Safety measures and inspections have to take place first (so nobody will get zapped by 25 kV AC), debris will have to be untangled and cleaned up, and so on.

 

[Horizon22]

Most reasonable people will take the odd day on the chin, but things do wear thin when every journey seems to experience some level of problem, which has been my own experience in GTRland for some time now!

This is fairly unprecedented for the GWML - I don’t think such a significant incident has happened since TfL appeared on the scene so we’re already 4 years back now. I think that counts as the “odd day” to me.

And before we say the “railway screws up”, yes it’s a big incident but nobody really knows the root cause yet, it’s not like it’s a direct act of incompetence or mis-management specifically. It could be a freak event and whilst there are always potential mitigations it could have been so indirect as to be almost unpredictable.

 

[cactustwirly]

This is fairly unprecedented for the GWML - I don’t think such a significant incident has happened since TfL appeared on the scene so we’re already 4 years back now. I think that counts as the “odd day” to me.

And before we say the “railway screws up”, yes it’s a big incident but nobody really knows the root cause yet, it’s not like it’s a direct act of incompetence or mis-management specifically. It could be a freak event and whilst there are always potential mitigations it could have been so indirect as to be almost unpredictable.

It's not exactly the first time this has happened, I have been significantly delayed by the same stretch of overhead line at least 3 times in the last couple of years

 

[bramling]

Agreed. Of course the issues with GTR go to the design of the network, its reliance on the core and ability to be affected by (and to spread) delays from what were previously discrete areas. It’s difficult to really see how these issues can be addressed other than through a simplification.

Significant disruption does seem to be getting more frequent which I agree is worrying. I suppose we’ve had a run of genuinely extreme weather events in fairly quick succession from the Lewisham strandings a couple of years ago, flooding/Stonehaven, the storms last year and the extreme heat this year.

I have been wondering if the weather has played a part, especially the sudden transition from hot weather to something rather more autumnal. My floorboards at home certainly seem to have reacted badly to this!

Absolutely agreed as regards GTR, the design of the Thameslink network is just asking for trouble.

This is fairly unprecedented for the GWML - I don’t think such a significant incident has happened since TfL appeared on the scene so we’re already 4 years back now. I think that counts as the “odd day” to me.

And before we say the “railway screws up”, yes it’s a big incident but nobody really knows the root cause yet, it’s not like it’s a direct act of incompetence or mis-management specifically. It could be a freak event and whilst there are always potential mitigations it could have been so indirect as to be almost unpredictable.

I don’t think one can really say today isn’t a “screw up”, regardless of the root cause, even if it turned out to be something like someone deliberately dropping an object onto the OLE. One way or other it’s a pretty major lack of service provision, even if (as seems to be the case) the disruption was relatively well handled. Very bad luck the day it happened.

Do agree that the western seems to have been rather unlucky with it happening today of all days. On the ECML this sort of thing is now pretty regular, sadly.

 

[Essexman]

Does Euston - Birmingham - Bristol count as a reasonable alternative route (en route from London to Torquay)?
I used it once but without finding out if it was allowed. The Cross Country train manager was quite happy. Don't think ticket was checked on what was then Virgin.

 

[VP185]

It's not exactly the first time this has happened, I have been significantly delayed by the same stretch of overhead line at least 3 times in the last couple of years

I don’t recall any major dewirement on the GWML in the past couple of years.

Plenty of issues on the ECML and GEML though.

 

[RJ]

The amount of RRS that would be required to even make a feasible difference to most journeys today is unthinkable too, let alone probably unobtainable!

Buses which at that time of day, today of all days will of been booked.

Believe it not, in disruption, one of the first things TOCS do is try to arrange coaches.

If buses had been requested on an emergency basis, there would definitely have been some resource today what with there being no school runs and drivers keen to work following a weekend without the usual rail replacement work.

There were a few at Slough, Windsor and Ascot for shuttles in the area but these were planned from a few days ago.

 

[800001]

If buses had been requested on an emergency basis, there would definitely have been some resource today what with there being no school runs and drivers keen to work following a weekend without the usual rail replacement work.

How many of these ‘available’ coaches would have been operating private runs for people going to special events for The Funeral?

And for info, buses were attempted to be obtained!

 

[VP185]

If buses had been requested on an emergency basis, there would definitely have been some resource today what with there being no school runs and drivers keen to work following a weekend without the usual rail replacement work.

Some resource, but not nearly enough to make any difference.

Paddington station doesn’t exactly have the space to park one coach, let alone the hundreds you would require to move the volume of passengers Paddington handles during the course of a day.

 

[JN114]

The first train to run from Paddington on the Down Main is now approaching Southall (IET on Diesel for the West Country)

 

[philthetube]

You need a contingency to make sure that the passengers can still get where they're going. With the route via Staines also down the pan this afternoon, there has been nothing between Reading and London, and no buses either. If you're travelling between London and Bristol or Cardiff you've basically been stuffed.

Can you clarify what these contingencies should be, maybe 500 coaches sitting at various locations ready for a breakdown, plus similar numbers on all other routes into London.

Please don't say that you don't work on the railway so others should work this out, it is impossible to plan for every situation.

I would love to see a single example of a TOC getting out the corporate credit card in the same way the BA have done many times for their UK domestic customers.


Absolutely.

What are they going to spend the money on?

Between 143 and 220 per flight depending on aircraft type, but there could easily be 5 or 6 flights affected (more than that for Edinburgh), so in excess of 1000 passengers each way. Definitely a smaller affair than the railway but not by any means a small one either.


Coaches for a start. If they can't hire RRBs in, get out the corporate card to pay for customers to go on the likes of National Express, Megabus or Flix Bus. For Bristol and Cardiff today that would have been the quickest way of getting people to their destination. On other routes, very specifically thinking of the ECML here, paying other TOCs when ticket acceptance is refused.

The way airlines work it is very unlikely for all 6 flights affected.

What are they going to use the credit card for?

The one thing the railway could and should have done better, which would help in this case is have compatible couplers so assistance becomes much easier and quicker.

 

[Dave91131]

For me, the big thing about the disruption on the GWML today isn't who is or isn't competent, or what parts of the infrastructure are or are not designed well.

It is how the tens of thousands of affected passengers, who doubtless had their day ruined by not being able to get to London / Windsor / points in between as a result, will remember the day.

They'll remember being stuck on trains for hours, probably with little or no information about how long they'd be stuck for, and having to resort to watching a perhaps once in a lifetime event (albeit a sombre one) on a phone or tablet.

Some may blame GWR, some may blame Network Rail, some may blame the trains. But overall, they will all blame "the railway" and view it in an even more negative way than they perhaps already do given its perilous state in today's world.

I suspect the damage to customer confidence, unfortunately, may be irreparable given the significance of today.

 

[Western Sunset]

Overhead line electrification is an incredibly complex system, to which a lot of safety standards apply. You need qualified engineers to work on it, as the job must be done properly for safety reasons.

The wires are high up in the air and need to be mounted in such a way that they're completely level. For this they need to be tensioned, which is a complex and precise job. If this isn't done right, the pantograph would bounce against the wire which causes damage and eventually leads to another dewirement.

The headspan setup means that there's more wires to deal with, which have to be mounted even higher and have to be arranged in such a way that they can carry the weight of all wires together. That too is a complex task.

When overhead renewals take place this is planned years in advance normally, getting the right resources and people in the right place at the right time. In today's case, the people, equipment and material all have to be sourced at short notice. Safety measures and inspections have to take place first (so nobody will get zapped by 25 kV AC), debris will have to be untangled and cleaned up, and so on.

Totally agree with Alex, above.

There's nothing inherently wrong with headspans as such; after all, they are widely used in other systems in Europe. Cheaper in the short term to erect and less obtrusive visually.
It'd be interesting to see, though, if any studies have been undertaken as to their resilience vs more solid structures. My gut feeling is they are less resilient as they increase the number of variables in the system and are more complex to set up correctly.

Overhead wiring has so many variables:
The interface between train and track, and its relation to the positioning of the OHLE such as cant and the "wobbliness" over junctions
The pan itself
The set-up of the wires - tensioning in particular
The power supply
Human factors - shopping trolleys chucked off bridges, straw blown from agricultural eqpt, etc
Weather - temperature and wind in particular

Headspans probably have an effect on tolerances used and parameters set.

Anyway, Network Ral probably missed a chance when it had all that F&F kit left over from the aborted parts of the GWML electrification - getting rid of it cheaply rather than using many of the parts to replace the remaining headspans out of Padd.

 

[Horizon22]

It's not exactly the first time this has happened, I have been significantly delayed by the same stretch of overhead line at least 3 times in the last couple of years

Delayed perhaps due to an
obstruction on the overhead wires, or some damaged cables having fallen, or a train having some wrapped around the pantograph / damaged pantograph. But nothing on this scale whereby almost 12 hours later trains continue to be recovered on an individual basis by locomotives which is a significant and specialised operations.

I think the closest and most recent incident of a remotely similar scale was at West Ealing back in 2020, but even then some lines were still available (if I remember correctly they were under possession so the lines had to be given back shorter than planned to allow services to run).

 

[JN114]

Delayed perhaps due to an
obstruction on the overhead wires, or some damaged cables having fallen, or a train having some wrapped around the pantograph / damaged pantograph. But nothing on this scale whereby almost 12 hours later trains continue to be recovered on an individual basis by locomotives which is a significant and specialised operations.

I think the closest and most recent incident of a remotely similar scale was at West Ealing back in 2020, but even then some lines were still available (if I remember correctly they were under possession so the lines had to be given back shorter than planned to allow services to run).

I think it was further back than that, for an incident of this magnitude - October 2018 was the West Ealing / Hanwell incident where an IET on a delivery run from Italy to Eastleigh for commissioning was inexplicably panned up on the move with the pan heads strapped down; the elbow of the pan getting caught in the wire headspans and pulling everything down. Happened approx 2000, and reliefs were shut.

I don't recall a 2020 West Ealing incident, but I may be wrong.

 

[43066]

If buses had been requested on an emergency basis, there would definitely have been some resource today what with there being no school runs and drivers keen to work following a weekend without the usual rail replacement work.

On the day of one of the biggest public events in living memory?

 

[RJ]

Some resource, but not nearly enough to make any difference.

Paddington station doesn’t exactly have the space to park one coach, let alone the hundreds you would require to move the volume of passengers Paddington handles during the course of a day.

True. I wouldn’t have nominated Paddington as the first place to target resource. Some people would have diverted to Waterloo and joined the queues there or jumped in taxis or carshares, or abandoned their trips.

 

[Horizon22]

I think it was further back than that, for an incident of this magnitude - October 2018 was the West Ealing / Hanwell incident where an IET on a delivery run from Italy to Eastleigh for commissioning was inexplicably panned up on the move with the pan heads strapped down; the elbow of the pan getting caught in the wire headspans and pulling everything down. Happened approx 2000, and reliefs were shut.

I don't recall a 2020 West Ealing incident, but I may be wrong.

I do remember that when the IETs were being delivered, but also a 2020 incident. I think the main disruption was late at night on a weekend so probably not as much publicity as a whole day, on a national day of mourning with expected considerable travel to a destination (Windsor via Slough & London) on the route!

Today has truly been some of the most unfortunate timing possible.

 

[WizCastro197]

I was thinking about alternative routes from London to Reading and from a quick Google search the time from Waterloo to Reading is 90 minutes. I was thinking is a better service going to be a Victoria-Redhill-Reading? We’re those trains very busy throughout the day? Did many people think of this as an option as the quick Redhill to Reading takes 50mins then 40 minutes to Victoria. Probably beats queuing for a long time even if it take ever so slightly longer

 

[43096]

For me, the big thing about the disruption on the GWML today isn't who is or isn't competent, or what parts of the infrastructure are or are not designed well.

It is how the tens of thousands of affected passengers, who doubtless had their day ruined by not being able to get to London / Windsor / points in between as a result, will remember the day.

They'll remember being stuck on trains for hours, probably with little or no information about how long they'd be stuck for, and having to resort to watching a perhaps once in a lifetime event (albeit a sombre one) on a phone or tablet.

Some may blame GWR, some may blame Network Rail, some may blame the trains. But overall, they will all blame "the railway" and view it in an even more negative way than they perhaps already do given its perilous state in today's world.

I suspect the damage to customer confidence, unfortunately, may be irreparable given the significance of today.

Despite all the chaos, the railway actually got away with it today. Had the Royal Train been used out of Paddington today as it was for King George VI's funeral, the railway would have had its biggest PR disaster ever, by a very, very long way.

 

[cactustwirly]

I think it was further back than that, for an incident of this magnitude - October 2018 was the West Ealing / Hanwell incident where an IET on a delivery run from Italy to Eastleigh for commissioning was inexplicably panned up on the move with the pan heads strapped down; the elbow of the pan getting caught in the wire headspans and pulling everything down. Happened approx 2000, and reliefs were shut.

I don't recall a 2020 West Ealing incident, but I may be wrong.

I remember one in 2015 where a 332 took out the OHLE and all lines were blocked

 

[Horizon22]

I was thinking about alternative routes from London to Reading and from a quick Google search the time from Waterloo to Reading is 90 minutes. I was thinking is a better service going to be a Victoria-Redhill-Reading? We’re those trains very busy throughout the day? Did many people think of this as an option as the quick Redhill to Reading takes 50mins then 40 minutes to Victoria. Probably beats queuing for a long time even if it take ever so slightly longer

Probably about the same time but then you are recommending people take an additional change as well, which isn’t ideal. Keeping a consistent customer message is fairly important. Queuing is obviously not usual!

I remember one in 2015 where a 332 took out the OHLE and all lines were blocked

I think even with these incidents, it goes to show disruption on this sort of level occurs maybe only once every two years, or a year max.

 

[stuu]

I think it was further back than that, for an incident of this magnitude - October 2018 was the West Ealing / Hanwell incident where an IET on a delivery run from Italy to Eastleigh for commissioning was inexplicably panned up on the move with the pan heads strapped down; the elbow of the pan getting caught in the wire headspans and pulling everything down. Happened approx 2000, and reliefs were shut.

The 2018 incident happened in the afternoon. My son and I were heading to London from the west that day, we arrived at Reading just after the lines had been closed.

Apart from anything else, it was annoying as it was the only time I have ever been asked if I would like to sit in 1st by the train manager, we had been sat in the vestibule as there was earlier disruption and no reservations displayed

 

[Bald Rick]

It's not exactly the first time this has happened, I have been significantly delayed by the same stretch of overhead line at least 3 times in the last couple of years

I’m racking my brains, because I can’t remember a major OLE fault on this section (Paddington - Airport Jn) that caused all lines to be blocked. When were these other incidents, roughly?

You never hear of the GEML/WAML/LTSE wires falling, or on secondary lines further north.

Ummm…

Its unfortunate almost the same thing happened in the middle of last week on the GEML. Took out 1000m of wire, a decent number of registration arms and damaged one of the stanchions. That took 36 hours to reopen and wasn't as bad as this sounds.

I don't understand how a few miles of new electrification can be installed in an overnight possession, but repairing an existing structure takes a whole day.

a few miles of new electrification can not be installed in an overnight possession. If it was the GWML electrification would have been done in a couple of months, not 6 years.

Acton Yard had several locos stabled on it at the weekend yet the rescue locos

but no drivers…

This incident just shows how shockingly incompetent Network Rail are. I can’t believe that several miles of overhead lines would suddenly collapse with no warning, why isn’t the infrastructure being checked on a regular basis?

It is checked on a regular basis. It was fine for the dozen or so trains that preceded this one this morning.

No one has explained to me exactly why it takes so long.

In very simple terms:

1) Incident reported
2) Response teams sent to site to assess damage. If damage is bad, and includes OLE on top of and around the train, that assessment needs the train out of the way to confirm full details. That’s what happened here.
3) trains needs to be moved to platforms (if possible) and evacuated safely. About 8 in this case. Including many which could not be moved (no power…) so were evacuated to track, with passengers to be safely got off the infrastructure and on to onwards transport. This takes a couple of hours (each train needs at least three qualified people to do this).
4) trains to be recovered and got to depot, or at least out fo the way. This needs a) compatible locos and b) drivers. Several in this case.
5) Get the repair teams to Take formal control of the site.
6)start repairing the damage. A dewirement like this will need multiple teams, some working in tandem, e.g. e-erecting the same headspan wire will need two groups on separate machines. In this case there will be severla heads pans to repair, plus registration arms to re-erect (to the millimetre, in the dark) and heights and stagger checks on all four lines for over 2km when the work is complete.
7) all OLE through the affected section must be checked for further damage, including that which is not readily visible from ground level. (Numerous examples of OLE repairs completed, only for the first train to being it down again at the location of secondary damage).
8) get all the plant and personally off site
9) liven up the kit

I would love to see a single example of a TOC getting out the corporate credit card in the same way the BA have done many times for their UK domestic customers.

OK. Last year I was involved in a similar incident elsewhere on the network, and rail company Credit cards were used for taxis, hotels and coaches.

This is not remotely unusual.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Back to portals - Rail Engineer

Listen to this article Headspans were necessary but now improved resilience is needed Generally, the railway electrification schemes that first emerged in Britain, before the introduction of more recent AC designs, relied on fairly heavy equipment. Multitrack supports were generally of the...

www.railengineer.co.uk

In the UK, headspans have been installed in large numbers, but their less-than-reliable performance means they are no longer installed for new designs on main lines.

 

[Hadders]

Coaches for a start. If they can't hire RRBs in, get out the corporate card to pay for customers to go on the likes of National Express, Megabus or Flix Bus. For Bristol and Cardiff today that would have been the quickest way of getting people to their destination. On other routes, very specifically thinking of the ECML here, paying other TOCs when ticket acceptance is refused.

I wonder how many coaches and drivers are available at a drop of a hat on the day of the Queen’s funeral?

Each GWR IET train has 9 carriages (some have 5), a class 387 has 8 and a class 345 has 9. To be fair every carriage may not have been full but just how many scheduled coaches do you think National Express or Megabus run?

 

[Jimini]

The temporary info screens at Reading.. close but yet so far…

(Photo taken from the ever unintentionally hilarious “thisisreading247” Facebook page.)

 

[bramling]

I wonder how many coaches and drivers are available at a drop of a hat on the day of the Queen’s funeral?

Each GWR IET train has 9 carriages (some have 5), a class 387 has 8 and a class 345 has 9. To be fair every carriage may not have been full but just how many scheduled coaches do you think National Express or Megabus run?

Have to say I was thinking the same. There does seem to have been the expectation for as many people as possible to have the day off. Personally I just can't picture large numbers of coach drivers sitting around on standby, though it's an interesting question as to how individual companies will have handled the short-notice cancellation of school contract work. A short-notice extra bank holiday is a rather unusual situation.

 

[158756]

Obviously today has shown one of the reasons why the Royal Train would not be considered for the funeral arrangements anymore. If anything the railway should be glad they weren't involved - today's troubles have had relatively little publicity, can you imagine what it would be like if the coffin had got stuck on a train for hours?

 

[Horizon22]

It appears that services will be cancelled until about 0900 tomorrow.

There is a significant schedule of works include headspan repairs, repairing the contact wire, checking the cant and calibration of all equipment as well as ensuring everything is secure and then testing the re-energised section and the connections between the rest of the OLE. This says nothing of getting site and machinery on and off site and briefing the teams.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they focussed on opening just the Relief lines first, so that Elizabeth line services can run whilst GWR run on diesel.