Possible electrification schemes in the pipeline?

[NCT]

Borders has a good case for electrification. It's pretty marginal between full and discontinuous. The argument for discontinuous is more so that Borders can more quickly release the workforce to other lines.

 

[Nottingham59]

Borders has a good case for electrification.

Do you mean a good financial case? Has any such thing been published anywhere?

 

[td97]

The CLC Line of Route upgrade was awarded highly commended at the Railway Industry Association (RIA) Railway Industry Supplier Excellence (RISE) Awards last month.

Innovation Award, sponsored by Infinitive Group – CLC Line of Route Upgrade - Lead Design Organisation

Winners announced at the RIA Dinner & RISE Awards 2025

This evening, the very best of the UK rail supply chain was celebrated at the Railway Industry Association (RIA) Dinner & Railway Industry Supplier Excellence (RISE) Awards.

www.riagb.org.uk

Some further details

Very pleased to share that the excellent work undertaken by WSP in the UK & Ireland as Lead Design Organisation and our delivery partners at Mott MacDonald to significantly reduce electrification costs on the CLC Line of Route Upgrade ES3 project was highly commended at the Railway Industry Association RISE Awards evening last night in the Innovation category.

Very pleased to share that the excellent work undertaken by WSP in the UK & Ireland as Lead Design Organisation and our delivery partners at Mott MacDonald to significantly reduce electrification… | Andrew Robinson

Very pleased to share that the excellent work undertaken by WSP in the UK & Ireland as Lead Design Organisation and our delivery partners at Mott MacDonald to significantly reduce electrification costs on the CLC Line of Route Upgrade ES3 project was highly commended at the Railway Industry...

www.linkedin.com

 

[BerkshireRails]

I can see the Southern Region being a target for electrification with 25kV to get rid of diesel traffic as well as permit electric freight via conversions of the Southern Region, taking place to allow electric freight and reduced journey time from improved acceleration rates and Higher Top Speeds. One project that comes to mind is the Network Rail plan to convert the Third Rail between Woking and Weymouth to 25kV.

 

[brad465]

I can see the Southern Region being a target for electrification with 25kV to get rid of diesel traffic as well as permit electric freight via conversions of the Southern Region, taking place to allow electric freight and reduced journey time from improved acceleration rates and Higher Top Speeds. One project that comes to mind is the Network Rail plan to convert the Third Rail between Woking and Weymouth to 25kV.

I think the only section planned for conversion was Basingstoke-Southampton, as part of the "Electric Spine" electrification from Southampton-Sheffield, but that was canned a long time ago. Beyond that section the business case would have been very poor.

 

[zwk500]

I can see the Southern Region being a target for electrification with 25kV to get rid of diesel traffic as well as permit electric freight via conversions of the Southern Region, taking place to allow electric freight and reduced journey time from improved acceleration rates and Higher Top Speeds. One project that comes to mind is the Network Rail plan to convert the Third Rail between Woking and Weymouth to 25kV.

The additional difficulties of conversion of DC to AC puts a giant hole in any case to convert any of the third rail area. Especially when resources are relatively scarce, there's plenty of non-electrified line in AC territory, and multi-mode locos are becoming ever more common both in the UK and abroad.

 

[BerkshireRails]

I think the only section planned for conversion was Basingstoke-Southampton, as part of the "Electric Spine" electrification from Southampton-Sheffield, but that was canned a long time ago. Beyond that section the business case would have been very poor.

Network Rail expanded on the Basingstoke to Southampton conversion in the Wessex Route Study and found conversion to 25kV between Weymouth and Woking would save 12 1/2 minutes in the Up and 9 minutes in the Down direction, which could allow for better reliability if not greater capacity from requiring less units for the same frequency which will allow for more longer formations.

 

[fandroid]

25kv electrification for freight makes a lot of sense. It can improve acceleration out of loops and from signal stops thereby gaining precious minutes for the path the train occupies. However, the really obvious quick wins of electrifying the Felixstowe and London Gateway branches have never been taken seriously by those in charge.

As for the SWR routes, if we're looking at freight, the max network gain would be to electrify Southampton Docks to Basingstoke via Salisbury at 25kv plus the Basingstoke to Reading line to Southcote. We then have to wait for the wires to get from Didcot to Oxford and along East-West Rail as far as Bletchley

 

[brad465]

Sadly, although 25kv electrification for freight makes a lot of sense. It can improve acceleration out of loops and from signal stops torighereby gaining precious minutes for the path the train occupies. However, the really obvious quick wins of electrifying the Felixstowe and London Gateway branches have never been taken seriously by those in charge.

As for the SWR routes, if we're looking at freight, the max network gain would be to electrify Southampton Docks to Basingstoke via Salisbury at 25kv plus the Basingstoke to Reading line to Southcote.

You wouldn't get all the freight through there electric without also extending electrification through the Oxford corridor.

 

[GraphitProjekt]

25kv electrification for freight makes a lot of sense. It can improve acceleration out of loops and from signal stops thereby gaining precious minutes for the path the train occupies. However, the really obvious quick wins of electrifying the Felixstowe and London Gateway branches have never been taken seriously by those in charge.

I came across some documents from the early 1960s that mentioned Ipswich-Felixstowe as an electrification priority before even Ipswich to Norwich. I wreckon they did it because there might not be the practical capability to efficient switch from a shunter to an electric loco within Felixstowe dock for whatever reason so they may as well had done it in Ipswich where they already had a yard to carry out that sort of job. Hopefully class 99s can mean extending wires all the way up to Felixstowe dock can be benefitted from much easier.

As for the SWR routes, if we're looking at freight, the max network gain would be to electrify Southampton Docks to Basingstoke via Salisbury at 25kv plus the Basingstoke to Reading line to Southcote. We then have to wait for the wires to get from Didcot to Oxford and along East-West Rail as far as Bletchley

I think in reality this is the only third rail route worth trying to re-electrify into 3rd rail, save from maybe a route between Dollands Moor and Reading to take channel tunnel freight under and around London rather than through it, but that's definitely fantasy.
As far as I know, all the electrostar and desiro fleets down there have some kind of passive provision to become dual voltage. So I'd say running Weymouth to Basingstoke with AC/DC interfaces at Basingstoke, St Denys and Eastleigh. Maybe if there are no serious clearance problems on the relevant parts of the coastway line/fareham line. You could put one changeover in Fareham rather than two on the mainline, this would result in re-electrifying Eastleigh depot however.

 

[HSTEd]

Reelectrifying third rail lines with 25kV for the benefit of freight is, in my view, an insane proposition.

Freight locomotives with third rail capability are available (and have been for ~85 years) and dual voltage freight locomotives have been available for 35 years. Indeed ,the most capable freight locomotive on the British mainline railway was, until exceptionally recently, dual voltage.

I think the old studies claiming that 25kV would be cheaper than third rail renewal are discredited given the cost escalations in 25kV installation since.
I don't think there is much doubt that additional third rail reinforcement would be cheaper than 25kV conversion.

Then again, the freight operators probably won't use electric traction whatever we do......

 

[stevieinselby]

I'm afraid that if the current service patterns continue that won't be much use as trains turn round in 5 or 6 minutes - although the Greenford shuttle has only that or less. It's possible, I suppose, but proper electrification is the real answer.

The Greenford shuttle has a 4-minute turnaround every 30 minutes, to power a lightweight train on a 5 mile round trip along a 40mph branch line. That's a very different prospect from a mainline train running 35 miles each way at speeds of up to 90mph through hilly terrain. The couple of miles in and out of Edinburgh won't do much to recharge the batteries.

 

[Zomboid]

Reelectrifying third rail lines with 25kV for the benefit of freight is, in my view, an insane proposition.

Freight locomotives with third rail capability are available (and have been for ~85 years) and dual voltage freight locomotives have been available for 35 years. Indeed ,the most capable freight locomotive on the British mainline railway was, until exceptionally recently, dual voltage.

I think the old studies claiming that 25kV would be cheaper than third rail renewal are discredited given the cost escalations in 25kV installation since.
I don't think there is much doubt that additional third rail reinforcement would be cheaper than 25kV conversion.

Then again, the freight operators probably won't use electric traction whatever we do......

I agree that it's madness - especially when the route concerned has a parallel (ok, slightly longer but much quieter) route which is not electrified at all.

Specifically though, BR did a great job of building the Bournemouth electrification cheaply, and whilst there have been upgrades since, if you try to send a 92 that way on DC then it'll cause the whole thing to collapse. It isn't built to handle that kind of current.

Electrification of the route via Andover at 25kV would get the freights off the main line and out of the way of the passenger trains whilst also getting electrification a good chunk of the way towards Exeter.

 

[zwk500]

I agree that it's madness - especially when the route concerned has a parallel (ok, slightly longer but much quieter) route which is not electrified at all.

Specifically though, BR did a great job of building the Bournemouth electrification cheaply, and whilst there have been upgrades since, if you try to send a 92 that way on DC then it'll cause the whole thing to collapse. It isn't built to handle that kind of current.

Electrification of the route via Andover at 25kV would get the freights off the main line and out of the way of the passenger trains whilst also getting electrification a good chunk of the way towards Exeter.

Although you'd have the fun of the mixed electrification between Basingstoke and Worting Jn, unless you had a gap with a last-mile loco and a big extension lead...

 

[HSTEd]

Although you'd have the fun of the mixed electrification between Basingstoke and Worting Jn, unless you had a gap with a last-mile loco and a big extension lead...

Well you are going to need a last mile capable locomotive for the dockside anyway, because I can't see the the container port wanting to pay for (or have) movable 25kV conductor bars in its loading yard.

 

[Zomboid]

Although you'd have the fun of the mixed electrification between Basingstoke and Worting Jn, unless you had a gap with a last-mile loco and a big extension lead...

It would be a significant complication, but it has been done elsewhere.

 

[HSTEd]

I agree that it's madness - especially when the route concerned has a parallel (ok, slightly longer but much quieter) route which is not electrified at all.

Specifically though, BR did a great job of building the Bournemouth electrification cheaply, and whilst there have been upgrades since, if you try to send a 92 that way on DC then it'll cause the whole thing to collapse. It isn't built to handle that kind of current.

Electrification of the route via Andover at 25kV would get the freights off the main line and out of the way of the passenger trains whilst also getting electrification a good chunk of the way towards Exeter.

As it stands, that is true, but I think reinforcement of the existing third rail line is likely to come out substantially cheaper than either conversion or attempting to electrify via Andover.

I hesitate to bring it up, but right now SNCF is installing a superconducting 1500V feeder cable at Paris Montparnasse..... if it works as expected then very high power third rail installations are likely to become much simpler.

 

[Zomboid]

As it stands, that is true, but I think reinforcement of the existing third rail line is likely to come out substantially cheaper than either conversion or attempting to electrify via Andover.

I hesitate to bring it up, but right now SNCF is installing a superconducting 1500V feeder cable at Paris Montparnasse..... if it works as expected then very high power third rail installations are likely to become much simpler.

But without the benefits of diverting the freight or increasing the route miles with electrification

 

[The exile]

Although you'd have the fun of the mixed electrification between Basingstoke and Worting Jn, unless you had a gap with a last-mile loco and a big extension lead...

If you’re going to send freight down via Andover would it be possible to “de-flyover” Worting Junction and pair by route through Basingstoke? (This is the speculation thread, after all.)

 

[BerkshireRails]

If you’re going to send freight down via Andover, would it be possible to “de-flyover” Worting Junction and pair by route through Basingstoke? (This is the speculation thread, after all.)

You would still want to keep the flyover so Up Cross Country services can avoid having a flat crossing with the Down WofE services, and you would want one for the Down Cross Country services. You must add a flyover between Basingstoke and Fleet to get the slow lines onto the WofE.

 

[GraphitProjekt]

I agree that it's madness - especially when the route concerned has a parallel (ok, slightly longer but much quieter) route which is not electrified at all.

Specifically though, BR did a great job of building the Bournemouth electrification cheaply, and whilst there have been upgrades since, if you try to send a 92 that way on DC then it'll cause the whole thing to collapse. It isn't built to handle that kind of current.

Electrification of the route via Andover at 25kV would get the freights off the main line and out of the way of the passenger trains whilst also getting electrification a good chunk of the way towards Exeter.

Well if that's an option sure. Worth considering if any gauge clearance needs to be done across that route (maybe it's already a diversion for freight I'm not sure). Also are we getting to southampton via Redbridge of Chandler's Forge? The former would require a bit of demolishing to reinstate an old curve, and the latter might diminish the benefits of taking freight traffic off the mainline and significantly increases the dual voltage requirement.

If you’re going to send freight down via Andover would it be possible to “de-flyover” Worting Junction and pair by route through Basingstoke? (This is the speculation thread, after all.)

This rather negates the "adding passenger capacity to SWML" point that this whole idea came from. Perhaps a freight only bypass around Basingstoke? Possibly an easier sell than "we're making passenger services worse"

 

[Zomboid]

If you’re going to send freight down via Andover would it be possible to “de-flyover” Worting Junction and pair by route through Basingstoke? (This is the speculation thread, after all.)

If you extend the Reading bay round the back then it could work. Platform 1 would be for the terminating stoppers, 2 & 3 for Southampton and 4 & 5 for Salisbury & Reading (you could put the junction switches for the WoE either side of the station, or both if you want to have ultimate flexibility - assuming those trains are dual voltage BEMUs so can change wherever appropriate). Would still be worth keeping the flyover as a reversible connection between the two since it's already there.

 

[zwk500]

If you’re going to send freight down via Andover would it be possible to “de-flyover” Worting Junction and pair by route through Basingstoke? (This is the speculation thread, after all.)

You wouldn't want to because of the need for XC to cross and terminating trains at Basingstoke. Either build a new flyover east of Basingstoke to allow down traffic to avoid conflicting with all lines or build a bi-di connection behind platform 4 & 5 and signal the Up Slow for wrong-road running to allow down trains from Reading to Salisbury to stay on the Up side until after Worting Jn.

 

[Zomboid]

This of course is a good example where something like a 93 would be useful. 25kV to Basingstoke, batteries for the short hop to Oakley and then pan back up. Only platform 5 needs wires for the EMU shuttle and there can be short unelectrified sections on the Reading line junction and at Worting Junction, negating the need for any dual electrification. If the loco battery is up to it then they could run from Redbridge or Eastleigh through to the docks on batteries.

The hypothetical new WoE BEMUs can be dual voltage and run on batteries from the short gap Worting Junction to Oakley, and then arrive at Salisbury with a full charge. Use the same train type for the Romsey service and jobs a good 'un.

 

[Nottingham59]

The couple of miles in and out of Edinburgh won't do much to recharge the batteries.

Well, trains from Tweedbank are timed to take 13 minutes each way from Edinburgh to Newcraighall where the wires end, giving 26 minutes to recharge plus any dwell at Edinburgh. The Stadler FLIRT Akku takes 15 mintues to recharge from the wires.

 

[hux385]

Green light for new Network Rail feeder station in Borders town

Nework Rail has been given the green light to power ahead with plans for a new feeder station at Tweedbank.

www.heraldscotland.com

Network Rail has been given the green light to power ahead with plans for a new feeder station at Tweedbank.

Formal approval was granted this week by Scottish Borders Council for a planning bid to enable provision of electrified stock on the railway in the future.

According to the Herald Scotland, the feeder station at Tweedbank has got planning permission. This is obviously seperate to actually installing OLE at the southern end of the Borders line, but it is a step in the right direction to achieve that aim.

 

[AndrewE]

Well, trains from Tweedbank are timed to take 13 minutes each way from Edinburgh to Newcraighall where the wires end, giving 26 minutes to recharege plus any dwell at Edinburgh. The Stadler FLIRT Akku takes 15 mintues to recharge from the wires.

Thank you, I thought it would probably be a goer.
I still like the idea of a rapid charge at a "country" terminus, fed by a slow and steady charge shore-station. It could be the key to some commuter lines which terminate in the sticks with no obviuos grid connection - in the short term anyway. There are probably half a dozen options which could be trialled, allowing 3 or 4 to be standardised and rolled out as appropriate depending on route distance, train length, frequency, dwell times, etc. Gradient shouldn't matter as you get regen in one direction!

 

[Bald Rick]

Hopefully class 99s can mean extending wires all the way up to Felixstowe dock can be benefitted from much easier.

The Class 99 has, at a stroke, removed any case for electrification of the Felixstowe and Gateway branches.

 

[brad465]

The Class 99 has, at a stroke, removed any case for electrification of the Felixstowe and Gateway branches.

Are there enough 99s to take over most of the services for those branches? If there were 100 of them I think so, but 30x isn't many.

 

[Bald Rick]

Are there enough 99s to take over most of the services for those branches? If there were 100 of them I think so, but 30x isn't many.

Well, not everything off Felixstowe turns left at Ipswich…